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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Easy Linux 0.5 pre-alpha, released Oct. 02, 2017
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Sun 03 Sep 2017, 02:15    Post subject:  

Tried Easy 0.4 from standard USB install on two laptops, both with working Quirky 8.3 frugal installs:

This one with Intel chipset works fine. The other with AMD chipset did a black screen after initial boot, similar to other problem report, although vtys were responding so could go ctrl-alt-f2 and soft reboot. And going back to Xwin on vty4 the display shows a split second blink of the desktop but goes back to black.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 4755
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 07 Sep 2017, 14:22    Post subject:  

The app image of mypaint works in Easy linux

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=966846#966846

I find if I try to launch it with a command in the terminal --->
Code:
./MyPaint-1.3.0-git.78e083f.glibc2.15-x86_64.AppImage

Result ----> X crashes and
I need to type 'xwin' to launch X again.

Better to double click on file icon in Rox filer Laughing
It seems to be stable then.

_________________________________________________

Also I find Easy crashes when I try to move a Rox Filer window
using the window menu and selecting 'Move'

_________________________________________________
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5302
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep 2017, 09:40    Post subject:  

Mine of p.1 refers.
With v0.4 can't say my views have changed much since then, except presently running it (well, almost) on 16Gb USB stick.
We now have Pt.s 1 & 2 explaining what it's all about and how to use it. Read Pt.1, not intended for the likes of YT, of course, and, predictably, although I know all the words, understood little. So read Pt.2 for "users" - me. Now I really don't need to be told how to unzip a file, nor how to write an image to USB - all full Linux OSes seem to have the ImageWrite utility, as well as the devil's OS. The remainder of the blurb was convoluted also, neither Parts hardly engender use of the word "EASY".
I ran it - eventually - S_L_O_W_L_Y. I could not achieve a resolution or screen disposition, even with my SotA HW, that was entirely visible; the icons and windows were always off-screen l.h.s. Resolution changes were ineffective. CTRL-ALT_BKSPCE isn't working, inter alia.
INMVHO, this one is a loser. It hasn't got an obvious user appeal, as evidenced by the tiny, by Puppy standards, number of Forum contributors and contributions.
Elsewhere, there is considerable adverse discussion about the recent state of the breed(s). On the one hand, every developer is free to follow their own nose, but, if something's worth doing...& co. Good science deserves inordinate dedication and perseverance - at least, that's what I used to drill into my research students.
The overwhelming demand is for an OS that is truly SIMPLE to load, lightweight in both the RAM and Mb connotations, does regular functions OOTB, boots to a modest default screen with network connected and sound up. It should also probably concentrate on 32bit only - there simply is no advantage with 64 (or 128) bit mathematics in this application thanks to the USDoJ, AMD and (even) the EU. 32bit works on everything after 16bit's demise.
Of course, there are other interesting projects which could benefit from different Linux approaches, like RPi & clones, and mobiles/tablets/Android. [Hopefully, the market for laptops will soon collapse once users have dropped enough of them and discovered the cost and nuisance of repairs, even of the DIY variety.]
Regular Puppy was going so well and so was Slacko, shame that BK & micko are moving on, but hey ho, they're entitled.
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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 4216
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 09 Sep 2017, 20:54    Post subject:  

" The overwhelming demand is for an OS that is truly SIMPLE to load,
lightweight in both the RAM and Mb connotations, does regular functions OOTB, boots to a modest default screen with network connected and sound up. It should also probably concentrate on 32bit only "

"""""""""""

That's why I like >> Woof CE Debian Stretch.

from ttuuxxx

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=967228#967228

Chris.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5302
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep 2017, 02:59    Post subject:  

That one is a bit too retro, cb!
What's so tantalising is that Slacko 6.9.6.4 was almost there (I still use it). micko shares the genius of BK, but rightly he has to put his family and career first. He has made some updates but I suppose all developers at the coalface tend to get seduced by the siren bleatings of the small cadre of kiddies wanting go-faster stripes.
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 243
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep 2017, 16:33    Post subject: Re: wifi connection
Subject description: wlan0 not persistent (?)
 

BarryK wrote:
foxpup wrote:
I can setup wifi with SNS, as in all puppies.
To setup wifi connection at bootup I put/link rc.network in the Startup direcory. That normally works, but not in easy 0.3 (nor in Quirky Xerus).
Even worse: in SNS the first offer to use the profile wlan0 (connect now) does not work. So I have to go through the setup of the interface again.

Is the profile not persistent? Or does it only look that way?
Running SNS verbose in console shows an error about 10 lines before exit:
Code:
ifconfig: SIOCSIFFLAGS: Unknown error 132


I also experienced that, and then the problem just "went away".

I suspect it might have gone away after I selected the "CRD" in quicksetup. If you run quicksetup (Setup menu), you will see the CRD listbox. Choose your country, and see if that fixes it.
This does not solve it for me. Same error and same behaviour of non-persistence with CRD : BE Belgium.
IIRC I had a similar problem in LxPupSc. There it went away by setting CRD: 00 UNSET !
EDIT: in LxPupSc version 17.09.21 the problem has completely disappeared now! CRD: BE Belgium works as expected and I have wifi at startup.

Last edited by foxpup on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 15:06; edited 1 time in total
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1304

PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep 2017, 05:34    Post subject:  

Hi Barry and all,

When first using Easy Linux 4.0, I did the full install image to a USB and have had (honestly) zero major problems with it. There's little things that need fixing, but nothing in my mind worth mentioning. The Container function runs great, and is dam# near impregnable in my tests. But, I decided to do a 'frugal' install of Easy 4.0, and everything went great though I ran into some weird problem with Seamonkey.

Basically, after doing an inital setup & creating the first save on shutdown (along with xz to gz conversion on reboot), the problem is Seamonkey will not launch outside of the Container at all at next boot or thereafter
. Here are the steps that led to this:

1) did the 'frugal'install, followed bootcode instructions.

2) Easy launches great, I begin setting up Seamonkey (outside the Container first) which seems to go well. I mean, it launches and closes and launches no problems.

3) I do nothing else to Easy except launch Easy Package manager to update it, then closed it. Then I add a file to /root/.jwm where I created a "jwmrc-personal" file, with only one entry that allows the jwm tray to show the minixcal clock in big, bold font. Here's the entry:

Code:

<ClockStyle>
 <Font>Ionic Charge-18:slant=italic:weight=demibold</Font>
</ClockStyle>


Saved this, went back to desktop, restarted Jwm, all was fine as the clock jumped up to my setting.

4) Then I restarted, created the savefile, and booted back in.

5) Upon booting back in, everything looks great except Seamonkey will not launch at all. Not from the Menu, not going into /usr/sharea/pplications & clicking its desktop file, and not even going directly to /usr/libs/seamonkey folder and/or /usr/bin/ folder and clicking the mozilla symlink that starts it. Nothing will launch Seamonkey.

6) Yet, if I now launch Seamonkey in "ec-chroot", it starts right up as it should, and I go about doing all the same settings as before when Seamonkey is 'outside' the Container.


Anyone seeing this too in a 'frugal' install? Any ideas, Barry??


Lastly, have another question about Easy, whether 'frugal' and/or full installed to usb-----after we download the easy-devx, is there no option to "load-on-the-fly" the devx? Is that not possible with how Easy is setup? I wanted to compile some stuff, but saw that I had to use Easy BootManager every time to load the devx at startup, then restart so the devx is loaded, do my compiling, then have to reset Easy BootManager once more & reboot just to get the Easy-devx unloaded.

What am i missing here? This is a bit cumbersome, haha Wink Is using SFS-Load-on-the-fly verbotten with Easy Linux??


Thanks for help and/or feedback about the above. In my eyes, this Container stuff is super, and increases the security of using a pup or pup-like OS exponentially. No other pup comes close to this..... [/code]
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1304

PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep 2017, 07:38    Post subject:  

[followup for 'frugal' installed EasyLinux4.0 Seamonkey problem]

Ok, took a further look at this, and here's the problem: notice in the /usr/bin/seamonkey script anything weird?

Code:

#!/bin/sh
 APP='/usr/bin/seamonkey.bin'
[ -f /root/spot/.mozilla/seamonkey/a2bvafqx.default/places.sqlite ] && ln -snf /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/seamonkey/seamonkey /usr/bin/seamonkey.bin
#script to run $APP as spot...
ARGS=""
[ $1 ] && while [ "$1" ]; do ARGS="$ARGS \"$1\""; shift; done
if [ $(id -u) -eq 0 ]; then
 [ $XAUTHORITY ] && cp $XAUTHORITY /root/spot/.Xauthority 2>/dev/null
 touch /root/spot/.Xauthority
 #following line is mostly there to catch any root:root files that may have got copied in...
 chown -R spot:spot /root/spot &
 export XAUTHORITY=/root/spot/.Xauthority 
 export XDG_CONFIG_HOME=/root/spot/.config
 export XDG_CACHE_HOME=/root/spot/.cache
 export XDG_DATA_HOME=/root/spot/.local/share
 exec su spot -s /bin/sh -c "\"$APP\" $ARGS"
else #precaution
 exec "$APP" "$ARGS"
fi


Specifically, this line:

Code:

[ -f /root/spot/.mozilla/seamonkey/a2bvafqx.default/places.sqlite ] && ln -snf /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/seamonkey/seamonkey /usr/bin/seamonkey.bin


If you check your directory for the actual Seamonkey folder, it is NOT in ......./x86_64-linux-gnu....... The script is creating a broken link shortcut every time for seamonkey.bin when the seamonkey spot script in /usr/bin is launched. So, to remedy this, remove the ...../x86_64-linux-gnu......and you'll have the regular Seamonkey (outside the Container) running again as 'spot'.

Weird that this problem only occurs in 'frugal' boots and not for full-install easylinux. Is no one else running this 'frugally' and didn't see this?? Or did my playing with adding a simple 'jwmrc.personal" file to the /root/.jwm folder cause this? Either way, it's fixed now.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8312
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep 2017, 22:03    Post subject:  

Getting back onto developing Easy!

Have compiled the 4.13.2 kernel:

http://bkhome.org/news/201709/linux-kernel-4132-compiled.html

Right now, refreshing my memory on how whiteout files work in aufs.

As Easy is a return to using SFS files, multiple layers using aufs, need to think about whiteout files when the layers change. Plus regenerate the JWM menu, etc.

Puppy has code that does this, and I will use just what is absolutely essential. I was reading the bootup code in Puppy, and it is very complex. Quirky and Easy are simpler, and I want to keep the Easy bootup scripts as simple as possible.

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radky

Joined: 02 May 2010
Posts: 744

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 01:01    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:
Quote:
Getting back onto developing Easy!
Have compiled the 4.13.2 kernel:

Pup-SysInfo-2.7.3
- Add support for parsing Cpu frequency in Pups with kernels >=4.13

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73101

---

BarryK wrote:
Quote:
There is also a new package, PupApps 2.2, by radky.

PupApps-3.0
- Major update of user interface
- Accessory tray is now optional (enable/disable in Preferences)
- Adjust number of utility apps in accessory tray, now similar to PupControl
- Add support for additional popular applications in tabbed environment
- Add compatibility with BK's Quirky and Easy OS

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=61962

Thanks

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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1304

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 06:56    Post subject:  

Hi Barry,

First, please ignore my question in previous msg about sfs loading. I read your site more and I understand (I think) now why SFS-Load-on-the-fly cannot work in Easy the way we've become accustomed to over the years.

Next, I posted this (below) in the XCFE + Easy 0.4 thread you saw/replied to (sorry about the 04 to 4.0--hey, a person can dream, can't they Wink ) and am re-posting it here so if you and/or anyone else gets a chance to look at it:

"Not sure if you're aware, or maybe you are, but there's a problem with the Containers & using Seamonkey-----it just displays bad behavior when you are having to login to any site. It will randomly and at any moment wipe your login while logged in, or it will cause login,php handling at the moment of logging-in to go quirky, and/or a few other things (uploading pics, hitting back arrow in Seamonkey---all things that cause Seamonkey in a Container to just not work correctly. Heck, it was so bad 3 days ago that i thought the murga-forum login had been hacked, then i realized this morning that it was really the Containers. This occurs in original 'frugal' installs of Easy (no XFCE or anything else).
Also, another issue, trying to run the remaster from a 'frugal" Easy install---fails every time. After you set things up, configure boot-specs and all, you'll get this message every boot:


Code:
:   
cp: can't stat /q_ro/q.sfs/etc/DISTRO_SPECS:  No such file or directory
/init: .: line 235: can't open '/q_ro/q_sfs/etc/DISTRO_SPECS'


Looked and realized when you remaster from a running 'frugal' install that you've already setup, the remaster script takes the ".../etc/...." above and DOES NOT rename it to "..../er-etc/......which exists after remastering. Even if I rename it in the init script, which I did, boot still fails at near same point."
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8312
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 10:07    Post subject:  

Here is something to get the brain cells churning:

http://bkhome.org/news/201709/managing-changed-sfs-layers-at-bootup.html

It is a very fundamental question, when we have just one read-write layer on top, why do we want whiteout files at all?

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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 243
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep 2017, 08:49    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:
Here is something to get the brain cells churning:

http://bkhome.org/news/201709/managing-changed-sfs-layers-at-bootup.html

It is a very fundamental question, when we have just one read-write layer on top, why do we want whiteout files at all?
I am no dev, far from it. And I think I don't really understand it.
Nevertheless, since no one is commenting as yet...
Answer to the question: to remove builtin packages (and remaster)
Question: has Puppy more then 1 rw? pupsave and ??? ram???
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8312
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep 2017, 20:00    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:
BarryK wrote:
Here is something to get the brain cells churning:

http://bkhome.org/news/201709/managing-changed-sfs-layers-at-bootup.html

It is a very fundamental question, when we have just one read-write layer on top, why do we want whiteout files at all?
I am no dev, far from it. And I think I don't really understand it.
Nevertheless, since no one is commenting as yet...
Answer to the question: to remove builtin packages (and remaster)
Question: has Puppy more then 1 rw? pupsave and ??? ram???


Easy only has rw at the top layer, which is a folder in the working partition, so there is no save-file, no need for one.

Puppy can also work with just one rw layer, but there are some modes that have two rw layers. For example, there is one mode where the top rw layer is a tmpfs in ram, below that a save-file is mounted.

In that case, you need whiteout files, for when using 'snapmergepuppy' to merge the top layer down to the save-file.

I haven't thought through the implications with the different Puppy modes. With Easy, it is simpler as there is only one mode.

In Easy, as far as I can see, it is feasible to delete all the whiteout files, though it is a step too far to do away with them entirely -- they are needed while the aufs layer is mounted.

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2163

PostPosted: Wed 20 Sep 2017, 20:23    Post subject:  

Say I have a base system that includes a .Xresources that if present takes precedence over .Xdefaults. If the bottom ro layer has a .Xresources and no .Xdefaults and I create a .Xdefaults in the rw top layer and delete the .Xresources (.wh file created in the rw layer) then it works as expected with the preferred .Xdefaults being used. I shut down and .wh files are deleted and the next load has both .Xdefaults and .Xresources present and .Xresources is incorrectly used .Xdefaults ignored.

I may have it wrong about the way things are set up with .Xresources taking precedence over .Xdefaults, but I envisage that something along the above lines could create problems ??? (there are other cases of series of potential files with one being given precedence according to specific tested for existence order). Equally my understanding could be wrong.
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