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Woof CE Debian Stretch and Devuan Ascii Based Development
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14277
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep 2017, 00:15    Post subject:  

Hi guys.

Thanks for the various reactions. I hope they spark a new interest in DPup.

~~~~~~~~~

As you probably all know by now, I have come to hate jwm, because of the
problems xml code created for me in the beginning, and there seemed to
be no one to explain it to me at the time. Also the mental attitude that
jwm would be identified with Puppy was quite untrue and unpleasant.
Puppy Linux is so much more than a single WM.

Yesterday, jwm created another problem for me (whether it is a new
version or not doesn't matter). I was not surprised. I just rode with it, let
it be, -- and installed icewm!

So I lost / refused / boycotted one WM way back when. Big deal! Because
of that "loss", I had to leave my comfort zone -- to discover +/- ten WM's
that are, IMO, equal or superior to jwm: icewm, echinus, awesome, dwm,
Window Maker, waimea, wmx, openbox, pekwm, aewm, etc., etc. Very Happy

For me, "boycotting" jwm ended up being a wonderful adventure. Not
always easy, but quite rewarding. To each his / her own, of course.

~~~~~~~~~

I agree with cthisbear that Puppy management should have promoted one
of the DpupStretch-es to official Puppyhood. Maybe the reason why that
did not happen is that the lot of us did not stick closely enough to Puppy
conventions?

Anyway, it's too late now, we had the momentum, we were ahead of the
Debian devs at the time, we could have swept the rug from under their
feet, but we lost that momentum.

~~~~~~~~~

Still the "template" for a beautiful and stable Dpup is at woof-CE for
anyone who has a couple of hours to spare.

Or download one of the "ready-made" ones! Smile

BFN.

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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14277
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep 2017, 07:15    Post subject:  

Hello all.

You can access a DpupStretch-7 build by recobayu here.
He used wiak's automaton script to build it. Interesting.

BFN.

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep 2017, 20:45    Post subject: Puppy Linux is more than a WM  

"Puppy Linux is so much more than a single WM. "
i say
Puppy Linux is more than a WM. , it is an OS which will get your computer as efficient as biggest Linux, whatever the WM used.
About Debian and Devuan, i would add Puppy Linux was so efficient in the past because it made things a different way.
Nowadays Debian devs come to Puppy (Dogs), and Puppy devs go to Debian. Will they meet together ? On the Puppy Linux forum. Perhaps...
What is important is to arrive at the same result as old Puppies, to arrive at better results would be a plus.
If all puppies with a Debian PPM are Dpup, try the Dpup Stretch by pupjibaro team.. Their Puppies are final release and LTS.
puppy_stretch_7.0.0.sfs : Sfs are named the same, under the cover.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14277
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 15:59    Post subject:  

OscarTalks wrote:
(...)
musher0 wrote:
-- jwm was always showing a blue title bar for windows, whatever its theme.

This is because the theme configuration in JWM was changed quite
fundamentally. Newer JWM will not recognise the older themes and so the
windows default to that blue colour. I have always liked JWM and am running
the latest 2.3.7 release. I made a few themes for it which have the "motif"
border decorations. I could post those but folks may want to produce their
own themes in accordance with personal taste.

Hello OscarTalks.

If you feel like it, people such as myself with no talent for graphic design
would be grateful if you made those new jwm themes publicly available!

TIA.

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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3360

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 19:32    Post subject:  

Quote:
If you feel like it, people such as myself with no talent for graphic design

You can cheat and get icons for close, minimise ... window buttons on the web quite easily and later versions of jwm will just scale those appropriately. Just include them in your .jwmrc (I use the same button for max and maxactive).

<ButtonClose>/home/user/Pictures/xbm/close.png</ButtonClose>
<ButtonMax>/home/user/Pictures/xbm/max.png</ButtonMax>
<ButtonMaxActive>/home/user/Pictures/xbm/max.png</ButtonMaxActive>
<ButtonMin>/home/user/Pictures/xbm/min.png</ButtonMin>

for much of the rest jwm is relatively straight forward if you follows Joe's documentation the following for instance covers most of the appearance for windows, panel, tasklist ....etc.
Code:
   <WindowStyle>
        <Font>Sans-10:bold</Font>
        <Width>6</Width>
        <Height>24</Height>
        <Corner>0</Corner>
        <Foreground>#FFFFFF</Foreground>
        <Background>gray60:gray10</Background>
        <Outline>#000000</Outline>
        <Opacity>0.5</Opacity>
        <Active>
            <Foreground>white</Foreground>
            <Background>blue:#0077CC</Background>
            <Outline>blue</Outline>
            <Opacity>1.0</Opacity>
        </Active>
   </WindowStyle>
   <TaskListStyle>
      <Font>Sans-10:bold</Font>
      <Active>
             <Foreground>white</Foreground>
             <Background>#0077CC:blue</Background>
      </Active>
      <Foreground>white</Foreground>
      <Background>gray60:gray10</Background>
    </TaskListStyle>
    <TrayStyle group="false" list="all">
        <Font>Sans-12</Font>
        <Background>#333333</Background>
        <Foreground>#FFFFFF</Foreground>
        <Outline>#000000</Outline>
        <Opacity>0.75</Opacity>
    </TrayStyle>
    <PagerStyle>
        <Outline>#000000</Outline>
        <Foreground>#555555</Foreground>
        <Background>#333333</Background>
        <Text>#FFFFFF</Text>
        <Active>
            <Foreground>#0077CC</Foreground>
            <Background>#004488</Background>
        </Active>
    </PagerStyle>
    <MenuStyle>
        <Font>Sans-12</Font>
        <Foreground>#000000</Foreground>
        <Background>#DCDAD5</Background>
        <Outline>#000000</Outline>
        <Active>
            <Foreground>#FFFFFF</Foreground>
            <Background>#4B6983</Background>
        </Active>
        <Opacity>0.85</Opacity>
    </MenuStyle>
    <PopupStyle>
        <Font>Sans-12</Font>
        <Foreground>#000000</Foreground>
        <Background>#999999</Background>
    </PopupStyle>
    <ClockStyle>
        <Font>Sans-11:bold</Font>
        <Foreground>#FFFFFF</Foreground>
        <!-- <Background>#000000</Background> -->
    </ClockStyle>

.. learning the xml aids in migration, for instance I run near the exact same jwm setup also under pure debian and freebsd and prefer to keep it all in the single .jwmrc file. That even includes all the startup programs
Code:
    <StartupCommand>sleep 10;openoffice-4.1.3 -quickstart -nologo -nodefault</StartupCommand>
    <StartupCommand>pcmanfm --desktop</StartupCommand>
    <StartupCommand>sleep 7;orage</StartupCommand>
    <StartupCommand>sleep 8;gtmixer</StartupCommand>
2017-09-12-002431_1280x800_scrot.png
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2017-09-12-002431_1280x800_scrot.png

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OscarTalks


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 1987
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 19:34    Post subject:  

Hello musher0,

The ones I made are these. There are 2 blues, a faint yellow which looks a bit bronze-ish and a lilac-purple. You can alter them or make other variations by experimenting with other colours. They work with recent versions of JWM.
jwm-themes-osc-0.1.pet
Description  These install in the hidden directory /root/.jwm/themes
pet

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Filesize  29.67 KB 
Downloaded  69 Time(s) 

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OscarTalks


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 1987
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep 2017, 17:36    Post subject:  

Has anyone managed to get the auto-connect of ethernet at first boot to work? This is not a major problem because manually connecting works OK and in a way it might be good to wait for the user to decide to connect, however I am used to the auto-connect that normally happens in other Puppies.

I did wonder if this was caused by the "Predictable Interface Naming" which gives names such as enp2s0 rather than eth0. This is apparently a feature of systemd and udev. The name does change to eth0 if you create a save. There is a udev script which creates a rule file which causes the change.

It is possible to force the name to be eth0 at first boot if you use net.ifnames=0 on the kernel boot command line. I tried this to see if the auto-connect would then work as normal but it didn't.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14277
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep 2017, 17:54    Post subject:  

OscarTalks wrote:
Hello musher0,

The ones I made are these. There are 2 blues, a faint yellow which looks a bit bronze-ish and a lilac-purple. You can alter them or make other variations by experimenting with other colours. They work with recent versions of JWM.

Many thanks.

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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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OscarTalks


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 1987
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep 2017, 08:21    Post subject:  

In case anyone is interested I have uploaded my Dpup Stretch remaster.
This is NOT intended as an attempt at a release or anything like that.
I am just sharing my experiments to invite comments and discussion.
I will update it from time to time as changes are made.

This was originally based on the build by billtoo (many thanks) which had kernel 3.14.79
This works perfectly except that recent Chromium derivative browsers show the warning about shared memfd () : function not implemented although in fact the browsers still appear to work fine. This issue is apparently resolved by using kernel 3.17 or later. By the way, Stretch has GTK+3 libs on board which is handy for people wanting to run very recent browsers.

I recently began experimenting with woof-CE. (Thanks to the team). I compiled kernel 4.4.87 with the aid of kernel-kit. This appears to be working fine except for the multiple [bioset] processes (which seem harmless). Swapping kernels is easy, you can do it manually by substituting and renaming 2 files so I may try something else soon. The kernel 4.1.38 by ttuuxx is almost certainly fine, or one of the others from the repos could be used if people prefer. I didn't go cutting edge as I wanted to compile and include ndiswrapper (which I have done). I believe this may not yet have been patched for the very latest kernels. The devx has updated kernel headers.

I have added and updated quite a lot of stuff. Firefox is Debian-compiled ESR. Media player selection includes SMPlayer and GMPlayer plus VLC as optional .sfs package. VPN support. Abiword 3.0.1 plus evince with djvu support. JWM 2.3.7 with new themes.

This is just a personal derivative. Some elements are untested eg cups printing. Other versions of Dpup Stretch by other Puppy enthusiasts are available.
https://yadi.sk/d/nzC5YTU93MgVaf?force_show=1

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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1561

PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep 2017, 15:30    Post subject:  

@OscarTalks: Interesting point about ndiswrapper, I guess it should be removed from the spec because it's for a specific older kernel? The missing icons is what I usually notice first too, most can be fixed by restoring some things from the removed mini-icons directory, but there's still a few Lxde ones (I think) that I'm not sure what they're supposed to use, and it seems that the "right" way is to update the desktop files to point to something else as you said. I'll try your iso later if my wifi lets me download all of it, sounds interesting Smile
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OscarTalks


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 1987
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep 2017, 16:39    Post subject:  

Hi Sailor,
Yes, one of the major components of ndiswrapper is a kernel module so it always has to be compiled against the specific kernel version in a build. Not sure how this should be handled within the woof-CE config/specs. I see that some of the non-kernel ndiswrapper files are in there but of course these won't work without the appropriate module. Obviously without the full program you lose support for those wifi interfaces that don't have Linux drivers. I came across one of those once and ndiswrapper provided a solution. Always good to have it on board.

Latest ndiswrapper release is version 1.61 and the change log states "Added support for Linux kernels up to 4.8" so I presumed that it probably wouldn't compile in anything later. Highest of the LTS kernels under 4.8 was 4.4.x hence my choice. Next LTS up is 4.9.x which looked too high.

Hopefully most of the icons, desktop files, menu structure etc are all sorted out. Default theme is a lilac/purple which looks different but may not be to everybody's taste. Overall I think it is looking very promising. Let me know your thoughts if you get chance to give it a test run.

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4041
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 19 Sep 2017, 13:19    Post subject:  

OscarTalks wrote:
In case anyone is interested I have uploaded my Dpup Stretch remaster.
This is NOT intended as an attempt at a release or anything like that.
....
This is just a personal derivative. Some elements are untested eg cups printing. Other versions of Dpup Stretch by other Puppy enthusiasts are available.
https://yadi.sk/d/nzC5YTU93MgVaf?force_show=1


Tried your dpup because of my interest in Debian and DPup development.
I must say, your version, it's really great !!

Why not official release ? IMO, there should be on every Puppy news page:
New Puppy Release:
Dpup Stretch by OscarTalks Cool Very Happy

Much talking I've seen about the future of Puppy and lack of developers.
Now, the best recent puppy is buried in a development thread, very few people know about.

Fred
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 14277
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 22 Sep 2017, 01:27    Post subject:  

Hello gang.

Just tested Oscar's variant.

Oscar did a fine job, and It's a good idea to include more than one media
player, people can choose the one they prefer or the one best suited for
the job. (vlc cannot sync the sound properly on some DVD's of old
European B&W movies or refuses to play some mp3's, for ex.)

But there are weaknesses in the DPup itself:

-- jwm is confused by the fact that I have a wide 1920x1080 screen
connected to a laptop with a 1280x920 screen.

The xrandr utility will let you select the wider screen and shut down the
laptop screen but you lose the icons at the far right.

Also, with jwm, when you click on the maximize button, the largest the
window gets is 1024x768.

This does not happen with the echinus or icewm WM's.

The moral of this story is: this DPupStretch should definitely come with an
alternative WM, whatever it is, that recognizes monitor dimensions right
off the bat and knows how to maximize a window properly.

-- The 4.4 kernel makes this old laptop as sluggish as molasses in winter.
You tick a box and the tick appears in the box 5 seconds later, for ex.
(Please see attached my lshw short hardware report.)

So sincere congratulations to OscarTalks,

but to jwm and the 4.4 kernel... not so much.

IHTH
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I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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Smithy


Joined: 12 Dec 2011
Posts: 1043

PostPosted: Sun 24 Sep 2017, 05:40    Post subject:  

Hello OscarTalks.
I am trying out the new Debian Stretch.
Well it booted up nicely and quickly.

The usual shenannigans with multiple sound cards and puppy.
But everything seems great!

Just one thing. I can't get Qjackctl to run.
Updated the puppy package manager and let it install all the debs it needed. But each time I try to run Jack,
the machine crashes and I have to hit ctrl/alt/backspace =xwin again.

Qtractor also complains that the jack server won't run.

I've not tried a new puppy for ages, but if this is what can be produced from the woof factory, then all is well and good.
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OscarTalks


Joined: 05 Feb 2012
Posts: 1987
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Sun 24 Sep 2017, 08:06    Post subject:  

fredx181 wrote:
Now, the best recent puppy is buried in a development thread, very few people know about.

Thanks for testing and for the really kind comments, Fred.
Although I don't feel qualified to propose a release on my own I certainly would like to see a Dpup Stretch available for people to play around with. My remaster is taking shape quite nicely but I am still finding some things that need correcting and certain features that I don't personally normally use need testing as well. The other day I found that psync is not working because of a missing libcrypto version (symlink) so I will be fixing that.

I am not a fan of GTK+3 but the way things are with the latest browsers I feel that we have reached a point where it needs to be included.

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