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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy linux frugal installation, problem booting [Solved]
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LidiaS

Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:03    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:

If you are in a hurry, and do not want to get to the bottom of this, you may do a complete new installation. You would probably loose less time. And consider just one installation.
Reformat with gParted to remove all leftovers first.
If you need some help installing a puppy, please ask. It can be done very quickly, since you have it on usb.


Great, I think that's what I will do. What do you mean by 'reformatting with gParted'?

I guess I would install the puppy from puppy install as I did before, but this time choose a full installation on a partition rather than the frugal one. Does this sound about right?

Thanks!
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:29    Post subject:  

You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.
WARNING: REFORMATTING WITH GPARTED OR ANY OTHER TOOL WILL ENTIRELY WHIPE OUT ANYTHING ON YOUR PARTITION!!!
FIRST BACKUP ANY ESSENTIAL DATA

USE AS A LAST RESORT ONLY!!!

I never do a full install for puppy (except for Gamer/legacy).
Frugal is quite easy. Put the iso of your puppy on the usb you made with rufus. You can do it in the windows you used for rufus.
Boot your puppy from usb in your linux machine. Reformat the partition for your linux installations with gparted (menu, system), use ext3.
Create a map, name it.
Go to the icon on your desktop for your usb (sdb1?) and click on it. Click on the iso and mount it. Drag (copy) initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs from the iso to your map. Run grub4dos from menu, system and install grub4dos on sda1. Close your computer and boot from hdd. (you have to go into bios (F12 or del or F2) to set the order for booting) It should boot.
At the end of your first session you will be offered to make a save-file (pupsave). Do it.

Last edited by foxpup on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 05:16; edited 2 times in total
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theru

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Heers, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:35    Post subject:  

It looks like there are some leftovers from a previous bootloader that are interfering with the grub4dos install.

The /mbr switch seems to be for the windows version of fdisk. It basically wipes the mbr and overwrites it with it's own bootloader. There is a way to do the same in linux but it uses the dd command which, if used incorrectly, can wipe everything on the drive so I recommend to create a backup before trying it.

Disclaimer: the following is based on what I've read here. I haven't tried it myself but it should work.

First we need to create a backup of mbr + partition table (make sure the drive isn't mounted):

Code:
dd if=/dev/sdX of=/root/mbr.bin bs=512 count=1


Replace X with the drive you want to work on.

Next we need to clear the mbr but not touch the partition table:

Code:
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX bs=446 count=1


This *should* zero out only the mbr and not the partition table. After that you can try installing grub4dos to the mbr. It should work now.

Should it go wrong and you need to restore your partition table then you can do this with the following command:

Code:
dd if=/root/mbr.bin of=/dev/sdX bs=512 count=1


Hope this helps

Last edited by theru on Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:55; edited 1 time in total
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LidiaS

Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:45    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:
You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.

I never do a full install for puppy (except for Gamer/legacy).
Frugal is quite easy. Put the iso of your puppy on the usb you made with rufus. You can do it in the windows you used for rufus.
Boot your puppy from usb in your linux machine. Reformat the partition for your linux installations with gparted (menu, system), use ext3.
Create a map, name it.
Go to the icon on your desktop for your usb (sdb1?) and click on it. Click on the iso and mount it. Drag (copy) initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs from the iso to your map. Run grub4dos from menu, system and install grub4dos on sda1. Close your computer and boot from hdd. (you have to go into bios (F12 or del or F2) to set the order for booting) It should boot.
At the end of your first session you will be offered to make a save-file (pupsave). Do it.


Sorry, I am really afraid I will mess up.

I open gParted but I do not see a button of formatting! Just sda1 etc.

For the reinstallation, I don't understand: the iso is already in the USB! This is the same USB I've been using all along. Then I completely lose you: I don't know how to reformat, I don't see ext3 (only ext4), I don't know how to make a map. The rest maybe I can follow.

I think I am beyond saving and I should just reinstall Lubuntu Sad and stick to easier things. I'm only thinking about the fuss of reinstalling full Latex. Anyway! Thanks again and sorry for being so bad at this. I
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Last edited by LidiaS on Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:57; edited 1 time in total
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:49    Post subject: multiple booting  

A remark concerning the problem you encountered.

If you want to install multiple OS on one machine, you should stop the second and folowing installations where they install their bootloader. It is better to run the installation of the bootloader, in this case grub4dos, from/on the very first installation again.

When you want both windows and linux however, you could install windows first and linux next and let linux also take care of setting up the booting. Although I would not recommend it even then; there other non-intrusive ways.
(You gave one yourself where you quote about wee, but it is not the best method.)
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LidiaS

Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 16:53    Post subject:  

theru wrote:

First we need to create a backup of mbr + partition table (make sure the drive isn't mounted):

Code:
dd if=/dev/sdX of=/root/mbr.bin bs=512 count=1


Replace X with the drive you want to work on.


Thanks so much for your reply. But I am a bit confused, and sorry for being slow: how am I going to unmount sda, if that's where I want to do the things you say? I tried from gparted, see attached picture in my reply above. When I try to unmount, it says it cannot do it because dev_save is busy!
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theru

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Heers, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:07    Post subject:  

If I understand correctly you're booting from the usb but the savefile is on the harddrive. In this case you need to boot without using the savefile. The boot option pfix=ram should do that.

Assuming you're booting to a pup menu similar to attached picture (the image may be different) you need to press f2 as soon as the menu pops up and type puppy pfix=ram This will skip the savefile and boot to a new session.

Edit: And you don't need gparted to unmount partitions. You can do that by right-clicking on the drive icon on the desktop and selecting "unmount". Alternatively you can also use Pmount which you can find in the menu under Filesystem.
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Last edited by theru on Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:27; edited 1 time in total
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Galbi


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 1113
Location: Bs.As. - Argentina.

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:23    Post subject:  

Hey, wait...

Do you want to keep your Lubuntu installation, don't you?
So, don't do a full installation of Puppy alongside with Lubuntu, it will be a mess, and you will end with two unusable OS.

Puppy frugally installed in it's own folder can coexist with other linuxes without problems, but frugal not full installed. (imagine installing Windows XP and Windows 7 in the same Windows folder).

Be carefull with Gparted, you can delete everything!!!

Here it's necesary to restore the MBR, it can be done by formatting, but it's a bit drastical.

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Remember: "pecunia pecuniam parere non potest"
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LidiaS

Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:40    Post subject:  

theru wrote:
If I understand correctly you're booting from the usb but the savefile is on the harddrive. In this case you need to boot without using the savefile. The boot option pfix=ram should do that.

Assuming you're booting to a pup menu similar to attached picture (the image may be different) you need to press f2 as soon as the menu pops up and type puppy pfix=ram This will skip the savefile and boot to a new session.

Edit: And you don't need gparted to unmount partitions. You can do that by right-clicking on the drive icon on the desktop and selecting "unmount". Alternatively you can also use Pmount which you can find in the menu under Filesystem.


Thanks for the explanation. I did everything carefully, with the dd's, then I rebooted and wee messages are still there Sad
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:44    Post subject:  

theru is posting at the same time:-)

Read last line of this post Wink

If you still would want to/have to install frugally, I try to explain better :
Don't worry about messing up. It is very hard to do Wink
Quote:
I open gParted but I do not see a button of formatting! Just sda1 etc.

It is under Partition, or when you rightclick on the line.
WARNING: REFORMATTING WITH GPARTED OR ANY OTHER TOOL WILL ENTIRELY WHIPE OUT ANYTHING ON YOUR PARTITION!!!
FIRST BACKUP ANY ESSENTIAL DATA

USE AS A LAST RESORT ONLY!!!

Quote:
For the reinstallation, I don't understand: the iso is already in the USB!

You installed the iso on the usb with rufus, you did not COPY it. You want initrd.gz, vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs from inside the iso and not from the installation (they are in use!) . So just put the iso on the usb, so you can get to it.
Quote:
I don't know how to make a map.

After reformatting sda1 (set the boot flag too if it is not there yet) you can close gparted. Then on the desktop click on the icon for sda1 to mount it (it has to be unmounted when you are in gparted; if not rightclick on the icon on the desktop...) , rightclick somewhere on the empty sda1 directory and choose new, map from the menu.
Quote:
I think I am beyond saving

You do not do it yourself, would be very hard to do Wink. I mean you let puppy do it for you. You will have to make some choices. You should choose a file and not a folder/map. [edited] if you want to use a big program like Latex, you probably choose folder/map [edited]

Quote:
fuss of reinstalling full Latex

It is not a common thing to install. I saw this:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=62231&start=70 Look for the posts of emil
But it is more then 5 years old. If you do not want to use it, you would have to get it by hand [edited] not by hand, you can use the package manager [edited] from the packages of ubuntu or debian.

If you want to use something that big, you could do a full install of puppy anyway!!!
Copy the iso of your puppy on the usb , next to the installation on the usb (see above).
Let the puppy universal installer do the full installation.
[edited] correction: still better frugal, but with pupsavefolder
thanks theru[edited]

Last edited by foxpup on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 04:49; edited 2 times in total
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LidiaS

Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:45    Post subject:  

foxpup wrote:
You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.


Ok I now found how to reformat with gparted. However, does this mean that all my data will be erased? From Lubuntu as well? Sorry for the (non-)depth of my questions.
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:52    Post subject:  

LidiaS wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I did everything carefully, with the dd's, then I rebooted and wee messages are still there Sad


Just another idea. Would it be possible to do the installation of lubuntu again, with the original iso/usb/dvd, not installing, but reparing?
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:53    Post subject:  

LidiaS wrote:
foxpup wrote:
You should reformat your sda1 where you will install your distribution. That's what Rufus also does, or any installer, to clear the partition. With this booting troubles, you should definitly do it!
You can use gparted from your puppy on usb to do it.


Ok I now found how to reformat with gparted. However, does this mean that all my data will be erased? From Lubuntu as well? Sorry for the (non-)depth of my questions.


Yes it does mean that everything will be gone. Dont do it if you are not sure you want to start all, ALL, over.
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theru

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Heers, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 17:59    Post subject:  

LidiaS wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I did everything carefully, with the dd's, then I rebooted and wee messages are still there


You didn't restore the partition table, did you? This would undo all the zeroing/reinstalling of the mbr and is only meant for when the process fails and you end up losing all of your partitions.

I once had a boot failure with windows. Only after 3 attempts did the repair tool manage to restore the mbr.

I really hope we get this sorted without needing to reformat everything.

And I agree about a frugally installed puppy. I have several on my harddrive alongside windows which I rarely need these days.

And when you use a linux partition then you can use a savefolder. This folder doesn't have a fixed size can grow as large as the space on your harddrive allows.

Last edited by theru on Wed 01 Mar 2017, 18:47; edited 1 time in total
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foxpup

Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 1141

PostPosted: Wed 01 Mar 2017, 18:03    Post subject:  

To make it even more confusing another thought:
Do you have unallocated space on your drive? Or a partition you do not use? You could make a full install of puppy there.

But that will not solve the problem of your machine not booting from hdd.

However. If you give the boot flag to that other partition (with puppy installed or not), you could set the new partition up with grub4dos to take care of booting from the hdd. I would boot lubuntu as well.

Any other ideas?

Or let the usb stick bootup the installations on the hdd. Rufus probably installs syslinux on the usb.
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