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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
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nipper


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 11:49    Post subject:  

There are two popular "translations" of RTFM prevalent. One is as described and one is Read The Fine Manual. It seems to me that there are also two kinds of responders and their meaning is usually related to their egos and motivation for posting in a help forum.

People who spend a lot of time trying to help others in forums often lose patience with newbie questions and people who ask before they've even tried to find something on their own, which is clearly and simply explained in the manual or, as with Puppy, something that is explained in the "help" right there on the menu.

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to steer people into good habits which will help them in the future, like reading the manual. However, there is a difference of "tone" between, "read the FM, you idiot" and "have a look at the manual pages for complete information" along with an appropriate URL or link.

My experience with Puppy is that, by far, posters are of the second category and are trying to help, and usually a URL is provided. It's not like that everywhere, I learned to RTFM on newsgroups, that's a bit like learning to swim by being cast into water over your head, but now RTFM is the first thing I think to do.

If beginners would just notice the second sticky post in the beginner forum, or learn to use the forum search, lots of questions might be saved. The nice thing about repeat questions, they become easier to answer.

Edit: Oops, I just noticed that a moderator with sufficient permission moved the sticky to the first post location. I suppose it was Flash. Now if I could just remember how many times I've advised that it is the "second" post I might be able to find them and correct. It's a very useful post in any case.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10961
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 16:20    Post subject:  

nipper wrote:
.... Oops, I just noticed that a moderator with sufficient permission moved the sticky to the first post location. I suppose it was Flash. Now if I could just remember how many times I've advised that it is the "second" post I might be able to find them and correct. It's a very useful post in any case.

Someone must have posted to that thread, which moved it to the top. Stickies are ordered just like regular threads, by the order of the latest post. I know, it seems inconsistent with the idea of a sticky, but that's the way it works.

If you want to refer to a post, it's best to simply put a link to that post.
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
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PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 19:43    Post subject:  

I would like to add another one.
When someone references a link, please, out of courtesy, make it clickable.

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 19:48    Post subject:  

Nathan F wrote:
If you have found a solution to a problem, a shortcut, or anything else that someone might find useful, share it by writing a tutorial or whatever you feel is appropriate. This applies to everyone, including new users, as the more experienced may take for granted some things that a new user may not understand.

Going along with this, please be specific and try to include ALL of the steps that you took.

Even more importantly, if you started a thread to find the solution to a problem and the solution was forthcoming, please edit your original post to add [Solved] to the subject line.

That achieves two things:

1. Those who are prowling the forum looking for people who need help - including me - won't waste time reading a thread where the answer has already been provided, and

2.Those who need help with the same problem will know instantly that their answer lies within; a very comforting discovery as most of us have found out at one time or another.

Remember, we all love the Puppy or we wouldn't be spending our free, and sometimes borrowed, time here.

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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2727

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 19:54    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
I would like to add another one.
When someone references a link, please, out of courtesy, make it clickable.
I'd like to know why they are no longer automatically clickable, as they once were. Confused
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 19:56    Post subject:  

jonyo wrote:
Béèm wrote:
I would like to add another one.
When someone references a link, please, out of courtesy, make it clickable.
I'd like to know why they are no longer automatically clickable, as they once were. Confused
Me too, that relieves the burden of doing it manually.
Murga should know I suppose.

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Flash
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 10961
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 19 May 2008, 23:10    Post subject:  

It changed the last time John updated the forum software and I can't see any way to change it back. You'll just have to remember to do it manually. Embarassed

There are two possibilities. If you want to make a URL clickable, all you have to do is highlight the URL in the compose window, then click the "URL" button above the compose window. If it's a word or phrase you want to make clickable then there's another step. You highlight the word or phrase in the compose window, click the "URL" button, then go back in the compose window and add = followed by the URL, inside the brackets. You can see what I mean by clicking the "quote" button of a post with a clickable word or phrase in it.
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nipper


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 08:16    Post subject:  

I'm going to express my opinion and it is probably not going to make me popular. I'm not evangelical about this opinion but it is the way I choose to operate.

The way Flash described it is fine, when one puts a URL as a link. However it's possible to give one of those clickable links a name, for instance "click me" and then that is what is displayed. It's probably correct that a lot of people click links without examining where the link, which they have seen as a name, is actually going. It's fairly trivial then to craft a link that presents itself as something other than what it actually is. For example, give the link a name of the form of a URL, http://...etc. and then you have a link that goes somewhere different from where it presents. Many clickers would not notice.

This is not a big security risk, however there is always the choice between what is convenient and security. I choose to post my URLs as plain text, they are what they spell. I realise that means people have to cut-and-paste, however, I think cut-and-paste is a skill that is useful and if someone doesn't know how, it should be possible to help them learn.

Now please don't misunderstand, I'm not accusing anyone on the forum of any nefarious activity or dishonesty. I wonder though, do the moderators have enough time to follow all links presented in posts, perhaps they do, in which case the scenario I presented isn't likely.

So, for me, it is not a case of discourtesy. I choose to present my URLs as plain text. I see nothing wrong with telling someone how to craft the tags, if they ask, ...if they ask, not just because you like it that way. I have not nor will not try to change your behaviour, you do things your way and I will do things mine. And as I have stated previously, if the forum guidelines change, I will abide by the standard and not post URLs in plain text.
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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 14:40    Post subject:  

Clickable links are much more convenient for me. Reason: I can middle-click it to immediately open a background tab, with a single action (or left-click for a foreground tab). If I have to copy-paste, that means I have to double-click the URL to select it, then click the "new tab" button (or press ctrl-t), then middle click on the little icon in the left part of the URL bar. Then, if I wanted to read that tab later, I have to navigate back to the original tab (which could involve scrolling my mousewheel to scroll through the 20+ tabs I might have open). So that's between four and thirty actions, depending on how you count. Taking the optimistic outlook, that's still four times as much work as just middle-clicking a link.

Also, clickable links are much easier to notice at a glance than plaintext.

I'm not complaining or requesting that other people do what I do. Just explaining my viewpoint. IMHO, one of the biggest problems in the world aside from greed and hate is the "my Way is the Only Way" school of thought.

If I have to spend four times as much effort on certain links, so be it. Not the biggest issue in my life Laughing

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 16:57    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
It changed the last time John updated the forum software and I can't see any way to change it back. You'll just have to remember to do it manually. Embarassed

There are two possibilities. If you want to make a URL clickable, all you have to do is highlight the URL in the compose window, then click the "URL" button above the compose window. If it's a word or phrase you want to make clickable then there's another step. You highlight the word or phrase in the compose window, click the "URL" button, then go back in the compose window and add = followed by the URL, inside the brackets. You can see what I mean by clicking the "quote" button of a post with a clickable word or phrase in it.
OK, that's a pity and we'll have to live with it.
Reminding how to make a clickable is a good idea. I think most of the time doing, becoming an automatism already.

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jonyo

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 2727

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 17:47    Post subject:  

I doubt that reminders'll work. It's not working for posting pix that are too big, or url's that are too long.
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koolie

Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 556

PostPosted: Tue 20 May 2008, 20:13    Post subject:  

While the ideal situation would be a return to the way things were before the forum update,
there is another very acceptable way of handling this, and that is with the "Direct Link" Firefox extension...

Highlight URL...
right-click on it...
DirectLink>open...
opens in new tab.

Very handy on lots of websites where links are not clickable.
Works well in all versions of Firefox, Swiftfox, and BonEcho.
Should work with all Mozilla browsers.

There is also "Plain Text to Link" which does similar and more.
I use both. Both good.
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Isis

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat 07 Jun 2008, 01:34    Post subject: Thanks!
Subject description: Lingo Help
 

Nathan F wrote:
"Read the F*ing Manual"


Thank you for the explaination. I offer you another reason to be kind: I have a learning disability that makes it difficult if not impossible, to learn anything by reading alone and usually have to be shown "how-to". Embarassed I doubt I am the only one.

Does anyone know where to find a glossary of terms of the secret language (lingo) of Linux?
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alienjeff


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 2291
Location: Winsted, CT - USA

PostPosted: Sat 07 Jun 2008, 09:01    Post subject:  

Isis wrote:
Does anyone know where to find a glossary of terms of the secret language (lingo) of Linux?

...so close

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat 07 Jun 2008, 20:23    Post subject:  

alienjeff wrote:
Isis wrote:
Does anyone know where to find a glossary of terms of the secret language (lingo) of Linux?

...so close

AJ, sometimes you crack me up! Laughing

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