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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Slacko5.7 eons2018A for Netbooks
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec 2017, 16:36    Post subject:  

DavidSpector wrote:
I've given up on Slacko puppy, also on several others.

I found EasyPeasy, which really works right away, and perfectly. Since it comes from Ubuntu, you specify some storage size in the installer (I used 100 MB) so your live EasyPeasy has persistent storage automatically (no Save required).

I also have Slacko 5.7 as a full install, on an ext4 partition. On my 1GB RAM machine I found this to actually work better overall, as I'm not hitting the swap-partition as much with browser doing things (a full install doesn't need a savefile Smile ).

I'm guessing your savefile problem stems from that you have half the puppy files on usb and other half on hard drive (if I understood your original post correctly), which might confuse the savefile size calculation, but I'm not entirely sure either.
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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec 2017, 18:08    Post subject:    

None of my problems so far have been because I did something wrong. Just saying. Each distro has posed different problems (except for "sfs not found" which happens with most of them).

Now with EasyPeasy I'm having trouble connecting to the internet through wireless. Makes no sense. When I enter the Gateway address, it changes it to 0.0.0.0 . Oh well. With EasyPeasy I'm on my own. It was fun while it lasted; guess I'll have to stay with Windows XP on that computer, so I can use it to view and control my computer in the next room using RealVNC.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec 2017, 18:30    Post subject:    

DavidSpector wrote:
None of my problems so far have been because I did something wrong. Just saying. Each distro has posed different problems (except for "sfs not found" which happens with most of them).

I don't think booting from USB with the puppy.sfs on HDD is an "old trick" that is normal, or that is what pmedia=atahd is for. I think it's for if all your files including the bootloader is on the HDD, with nothing on the USB. I don't think puppy is designed to work the way you have laid it out with this "old trick" at all, or that anyone has ever done it this way before you (but I could be wrong, I'm not entirely sure how much is on the USB and how much is on HDD in your layout). It sounds like trying to play Level 61 in a game that was only programmed with 60 levels and hoping Level 61 all makes sense with no unexpected surprises. Laughing
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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sat 30 Dec 2017, 23:07    Post subject:  

Sailor Enceladus, I am sorry, but you are wrong. I learned the trick of moving just the SFS file to the C: drive from one person in this forum, and from a posting in another forum that I did not understand at the time.

For most of the distros I have tried, when all the live files are on the USB drive there is an error message saying that the SFS file is not found. That is a bug, and is the main reason I call this an "old trick". That is what it is, a workaround for a bug.

There is no shame in bugs. They can and do exist. I have been paid a salary for positions where I only fixed bugs. Please don't get offended.

On the other hand, if the people who maintain these distros can reproduce this bug themselves, they should fix it. So I assume that it only happens on a few target computers, like mine. That makes it much harder to fix.

Anyway, my problem with EasyPeasy might only be due to the fact that I changed its hostname without restarting it. I will try again tomorrow.

Thank you again for your help, and have a happy new year.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 11:19    Post subject:  

DavidSpector wrote:
Sailor Enceladus, I am sorry, but you are wrong. I learned the trick of moving just the SFS file to the C: drive from one person in this forum, and from a posting in another forum that I did not understand at the time.

Hi David, could you link to the post where you got this information? I'm not entirely sure that the person who wrote the post would even disagree with what I wrote (if they are a puppy user on this forum), so your confidence that what I wrote about how pmedia=atahd is supposed to work in puppy is "wrong" seems a bit perplexing. Smile Here's what the woof-CE readme said about it: https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/blob/testing/initrd-progs/0initrd/README.txt#L121

Code:
pmedia=<atahd|ataflash|usbhd|usbflash|cd>
   Indicates the type of boot device.

I tried the trick of moving the adrv, puppy.sfs, and zdrv in a woof-CE Slacko 5.7.1 build from my USB to the root of my HDD on sda1 (which is a fat32 partition) but keeping the boot files on USB, then changing the syslinux.cfg line from "pmedia=usbflash" to "pmedia=atahd" and booting into the USB, and it did indeed find the three sfs files on the HDD and loaded them. I didn't have any problems creating a savefile either (it chose sda1 on the HDD as the savefile partition instead of sdb1 on the USB). Is your HDD partition with the puppy.sfs file also fat32? This 5.7.1 iso uses the newer init by gyro, perhaps you could try your trick with that puppy and see if it still gives you -24MB as the size? Attached are the screenshots of my saving dialogs, it said I had 65MB free, which was pretty close to what pmount said (73.2M). Posting these two screenshots of yours might help too.
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Screenshot(1).png
 Description   
 Filesize   33.51 KB
 Viewed   269 Time(s)

Screenshot(1).png

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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 12:30    Post subject:  

Sailor Enceladus,

I appreciate the information that you have given me, but I do not appreciate your misstating what I have written.

I never said that atahd did not work, or required many files on the HD. I don't have time for this, or I would list all the other ways in which you have not understood my postings.

Just, please, read all that I've posted before you start replying. It is a drag to keep reading your off-issue statements.

Thanks, and sorry to criticize.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 15:10    Post subject:  

I'm not sure how my comments could be any more on-issue, or any more accurately responding to yours.

All I can tell you, is that the savefile worked for me, even using your unorthodox install method, so hopefully the HDD and iso information I posted helps you pinpoint what is still different about our setups so you won't get the -24MB error. Good luck. Smile
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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 15:31    Post subject:  

No. Apparently, moving the SFS file to C: disk only got around the "SFS file not found" bug. It did nothing to cure the "-24 MB (0 GB)" bug.

But it's okay, I feel close to getting EasyPeasy working, and it seems to be more compatible and have more interesting contents.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 16:07    Post subject:  

On 27 Dec 2017, DavidSpector wrote:
So I do the old trick of moving the puppy_slacko_5.7.sfs file from the USB drive to the Windows C: drive on the target computer, and editing that final option in syslinux.cfg to "pmedia=atahd". This makes the Linux boot look on the Windows C: drive partition to find the SFS file. This works.

However, any customizations of the resulting live Linux are lost, because when Saving during Quit or Reboot the reported size is -24 MB (yes, negative). Either the save file is not loaded on the next boot (I don't see it in the messages scrolling by) or it is loaded but is empty.

Today, DavidSpector wrote:
No. Apparently, moving the SFS file to C: disk only got around the "SFS file not found" bug. It did nothing to cure the "-24 MB (0 GB)" bug.

I see how it is. Ignore all replies and questions and enjoy EasyPeasy then I guess...

@8Geee: Sorry for contributing to this farce. The original intention seemed good Confused
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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 16:32    Post subject:  

I was serious about trying out the distros you offered here at Puppy Linux.

Now that I have reported bugs that prevented me from using them on my particular target computer you seem to be turning ugly, calling these interesting threads "a farce".

I have not ignored any of your replies except perhaps the digressions about the nature of USB drives, which went beyond what was asked or needed.

In all the other discussions, I have thanked everyone here for their help, and I meant it.

If the report of bugs makes you attack instead of want to fix the bugs, I feel very sorry for you.

I have been civil and appropriate on this and other threads. Please do not start insulting me. Shooting the messenger for reporting a problem is inappropriate.
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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 17:10    Post subject:  

I think this post and everything after should be deleted:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=978887#978887

It's hypocritical and accomplishes nothing useful. No good will come out of this "exchange of criticism", which would just become worse and worse if we kept going at it because I'm sure I would have way more bad things to say about your replies than you do about mine, but I don't want to, I want to focus on the topic of puppy. I would say you brought out the 'ugliness' by opening this can of worms into this thread and being too self-absorbed to see your own similar shortcomings at the same time.
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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 18:04    Post subject:  

Sailor, go ahead and delete anything you like. I don't see any delete button so I can't do it.

Thank you all for your help.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3611
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 20:20    Post subject:  

@DavidSpector:-

Answer me one thing, please. I'm not at all clear on this, even after reading through all your other posts (because, believe it or not, and I'm sure that you think you have), it's not that obvious. Not to me, at any rate.

Q: Why have you put the (save-file/folder?) on the hard drive? I've never, ever seen this post on the forum where it says that this is the way to do it. Was it actually a Puppy user?

Am I right in thinking that this problem always crops up if you try to run a normal USB Puppy install? You say it won't permit you to create a save-file/folder because of this 'negative' value you're getting?

I take it you have no idea what's causing this '-24MB' you're getting.....

What happens if you simply do a standard, 'full' install to the hard drive? I do apologise if you've already stated this elsewhere, but have you actually tried it?

(There again, if you've decided EasyPeasy is the way forward for you, I would hazard a guess that you're rapidly losing interest in Pup.....)

Oh, well. 'Horses for courses'. I guess someone needs to 'apologize' if the quality of responses on the Forum haven't been as clear as you would like. Question Exclamation


Mike. Wink

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DavidSpector

Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 21:16    Post subject:  

Mike, I will try to answer your questions.

"Why have you put the (save-file/folder?) on the hard drive?"

I was getting the infamous error message "...SFS file not found". I tried many suggested edits to syslinux.cfg and none worked except moving the SFS file to the Windows C: drive and editing syslinux.cfg to point to it on the atahd drive. Note: you claim this is a Save file or directory. I have not seen this definition and as a beginner I simply don't know what the SFS file is for.

Note: this wasn't necessary with Mint or EasyPeasy, which did not have that bug.

"I've never, ever seen this post on the forum where it says that this is the way to do it."

Nevertheless, here are two postings, from about 4 years ago:

* https://superuser.com/questions/637026/puppy-linux-cannot-boot

* http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=84558

"I take it you have no idea what's causing this '-24MB' you're getting..... "

NO idea. That is why I kept on reporting it, hoping it would make sense to someone.

"What happens if you simply do a standard, 'full' install to the hard drive? I do apologise if you've already stated this elsewhere, but have you actually tried it? "

No, I have not tried it. While I bought 5 USB drives for this experimentation (8 GB each), I am not willing to buy a hard drive. All my existing current hard drives are busy backing up data or running various versions of Windows. Give me a free hard drive and I'll try a full installation, which may wipe out all partitions and make the disk unusable (that is what happened to one of my USB drives: it is dead from Linux).

"(There again, if you've decided EasyPeasy is the way forward for you, I would hazard a guess that you're rapidly losing interest in Pup.....)"

I thought I said that. The people in this forum tried to help, but were not able to find fixes for all the bugs I found. Remember, my target computer is a very old netbook with unique hardware...

EasyPeasy works great because it was designed for Asus computers, but even it has bugs (and no longer any support except for an old web page).

The fault is this strange computer, that was designed only to run Windows XP and Xandros Linux. Of these, Xandros is said to run fast but have design problems. I can't even find a Xandros iso, but I think EasyPeasy and its predecessor (Ubuntu Eee 8.04.1) were designed to replace it. It is a strange history that terminated in 2009. Since then, I believe, nothing further has been fixed or optimized.

My netbook still runs Windows XP very slowly but very, very reliably and completely.

"I guess someone needs to 'apologize' if the quality of responses on the Forum haven't been as clear as you would like."

The egos here are strong, and everyone seems to think I'm attacking them because I keep finding bugs on this old target computer. I'd be very surprised to get an apology.

One of the people here has asked me to delete my postings, which I cannot do only because I cannot find a "delete" button here. I told him he is welcome to delete whatever he likes. I was only here to get help and I got lots of it. I am very grateful to all, even if they believe I am attacking them just because I use plain, honest language and am targeting a unique computer.

Someday I might want to browse or develop software faster and to give up compatibiilty with the most popular OS, Windows. Then I'll find a way to run a real, full-scale modern Linux on its own dedicated hardware and with help from its lively support community. For now, I cannot afford to buy a new computer.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3611
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 31 Dec 2017, 22:20    Post subject:  

DavidSpector wrote:
For now, I cannot afford to buy a new computer.


Well, in that respect at least, you're in good company here. Most of us are either unable, or unwilling, to purchase new machines.....which is why many of us run Puppy in the first place, since it's known for re-juvenating elderly hardware. My own 'main' machine is approaching 13 yrs old. My other machine, a Dell lappie, is somewhere between 15 & 16. According to those who just have to have the newest gadget the instant it hits the shelves, my old girl was due for the scrapheap at least a decade ago.....and the Dell is a 'dinosaur'! But why? They still function perfectly, and, with the Compaq desktop over the years, I've invested quite a bit of money in keeping the various internal components up-to-date, and in good shape.

I'm no 'green warrior', for sure, but I totally fail to understand society's current obsession with throwing away perfectly functional hardware, just to have the 'latest & greatest' all the time.....and further clogging up the planet's already limited landfill space. Rolling Eyes

One thing I like about desktops, as opposed to laptops. You can get at the internals, and there's plenty of room to get your fingers in there to actually work on stuff.....plus, of course, desktops were always intended to be 'upgradeable'. Even the Dell, being an older, 'chunky' design, has room to work on it inside (with care).

But you've hit the nail on the head, TBH; the eeePCs always were 'quirky', from the word go.....and have always needed an owner who's prepared to go the extra mile in sorting out problems.

C'est la vie, I'm afraid. And as for the 'strong egos'? My experiences date all the way back to the precursor to modern forums, the old bulletin boards. I've belonged to a lot of forums over the years; trust me, this wonderful bunch of lads'n'lasses are pussycats compared to some I've come across!! Laughing


Mike. Wink

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