PSI: Puppy Software Installer 07

Message

klhrevolutionist · #61 Post by **klhrevolutionist** » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 21:38

I was asked to make some suggestions so I will.

The old dotpup downloader was very simple to use I believe we should be adding onto it instead of creating a new interface.

The people hosting .pup, .tar.gz, .jpg... should get together and create standards for labeling, tagging and how to design the web page for the dotpup-downloader. Example .html, .php, .xml ...

As for resolving dependencies it might be a good idea to look at how zenwalk accomplished this task. Of course the dotpup of the ole' days "just worked", not sure when or why it had to be difficult. We should be creating and repackaging .pups to unleashed because that is the default and standard and seems to be more stable and developed. As for .pup it just is and there is no reason to make it difficult.

With the old dotpup-downloader we could have simply created a category for wallpapers and screenshots or another box option to show a screenshot for the selected app.

Until standards are made and met things will continue to be a little more troublesome.

Standards, Safety and Quality and possibly Security if we ever get to that point..

This has been a revolutionary moment brought to you by: klhrevolutionist & in association with murga-linux.com for hosting the message board.

PuppyGuide: http://www.GreenvilleRoad.com/PuppyGuide-1.html

jediborger · #62 Post by **jediborger** » Fri 15 Dec 2006, 23:44

I somewhat agree with klh on this. I like the concept of PSI but I think we as a community need to solve some other problems first in order for any "package manager" of the sort to exist. First we need to have a central place to put the packages instead of reading them off a forum thread. Second there needs to be a better organization of the packages, one big gripe I have about PSI are all the redundant categories which makes it very confusing to find what you're looking for and the categories might contain different versions of the same app. Although this problem would probably be solved if we put all the packages in one place, sorta like a community repository in which files can be uploaded. Third I definitely think all this needs to be put into one tool, instead of this PupGet, DotPup-downloader, and PSI. Just like klh said we some standards if this is going to progress. I like the idea of a gslapt interface even though I know that puppy will not include apt-get but the concept of one manager listing packages and categories that can searched makes much more sense than the current system of haphazardly looking through the forum. Well these are my thoughts on this and hopefully this gets us to take another look at puppy's package management system.

#63 Post by MU » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 00:59

I have some different thoughts on this, but will reply later, as I don't want to influence you in sharing your ideas.
I'd like to collect more suggestions first, before I post a summary of my replies.

Let's do some more brainstorming first

Thanks for all suggestions, Mark

#64 Post by **Pizzasgood** » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 08:16

The appearance of a single, central repository would be nice, but having things spread out has its advantages. Less bandwidth per server, and if one goes down, some still remain up. The trick is to keep the same structure in both servers. They don't need to be mirrors of each-other (though that kind of redundancy is even better), but the layout needs to be identical. Then they can be merged seamlessly in whatever interface (a php script on the web, or a package manager on the machine, etc.)

When you download, if there are identical versions on multiple servers, it can be set to have a prefered server (for getting the 'local' one or relieving a particular one of stress), or pick one randomly (to spread load evenly, sorta).

The problem with this method is in syncing the client with all the servers, so that it can keep up with any changes. It would need to download a list from one of the more permanent, "official" servers, that could be either hard-coded or in a text-file. The list would let it know about any smaller servers. It could get those servers' package lists from them itself, it would just need the address from the main server. That way the main one doesn't need to keep track of what's going on in the other ones.

As much of this list-syncing as possible needs to be transparent. The new-server check can be automatic, every time. If a new one is found, it could ask the user if it should add that server to the list, in which case getting the package list would be implied. Once a server is on the list, it could check each time you run it if the list is up to date, and only prompt for updates when needed. Also, rather than popping up an annoying box all the time, it could have a "status icon" in some chunk of it to tell you that the lists are old.

All the lists still might get big over time though. I don't know how this is handled currently, but compressing them would make them much smaller, and a much faster download.

Those are my thoughts. Also, note that I'm not saying we need multiple servers, just that we don't need to limit ourselves to a single one. This way we can expand when the opportunity arises.

Lobster · #65 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 10:04

Ease of use

Puppy Star (2.13) will have a new Pupget.called PET (that means one package manager)
Barrys pupget was always VERY easy to use
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Puppy213

What I suggest is some restraint (Puppys are keen) and a little co-developing . . .

If Mark is up for it I believe PSI should be incorporated into 2.13 PET/Pupget.
(after Star is released - or perhaps at the beta stage )

How that is done is up to Marks judgment, based on the advisement he has heard.

The advantage to this approach is Muppy will have the most up to date and single package manager after Puppy Star is released and until and IF 2.14 (Barbie) changes to the newer format. It can of course be released as a dotpup as soon as ready . . .

In this way, we can move to a single and I hope simple package management system.

In particular I would like some of Nathans packages (such as kino and cinelErra) to be compatible in 2.xx Puppy and also compatible in ay future 2.xx series Grafpup and Muppy, PuppyPro (any news from Rhino?), Ipup, PizzaPup etc

#66 Post by MU » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 15:18

ok, some thoughts.

KLH

Code: Select all

With the old dotpup-downloader we could have simply created a category for wallpapers and screenshots or another box option to show a screenshot for the selected app.

I would not like a category, because you had to click and remember the name of the package you need info about.
But an extra info-button instead of an entry in the list might make sense.
Disadvantage: you don't see, if a .jpg or .htm or .txt is available.
A solution for this could be to use a "combined" icon in front of every package.

Example:

So if a package has a text or screenshot-symbol, you could look at it by clicking on the info-button.

As for resolving dependencies it might be a good idea to look at how zenwalk accomplished this task. Of course the dotpup of the ole' days "just worked", not sure when or why it had to be difficult. We should be creating and repackaging .pups to unleashed

I don't really see a difference, as pups created with my wizard already act like a unleashed (registering to pupget, pre and postinstall-scripts).

This just would make sense, if a new unleashed-format had some new advantages imho.
Also the dotpup-wizard makes it easy to create new menu-entries, though this will become obsolete, if Barry switches to the XDG-standard.
Muppy uses XDG by default, so no more "Dotpup-menu" would be required.

jediborger

A central repository is utopic.
I see noone who would offer his time to organize payment and technical infrastructure.
For this reason PSI tries to show packages from different servers, as if they were one one.
So for the user, it looks just the same.

categories might contain different versions of the same app.

This is a general problem, and can't be solved I think.
For example someone wants Image Magic to work with, so he wants the newest version.
But someone else wants to run it from abuild-script, that comes with some iconthemes.
Those scripts are incompatible with the new version, so we still must list an older one.

Third I definitely think all this needs to be put into one tool, instead of this PupGet, DotPup-downloader, and PSI.

There once were 2:
pupget and dotpupdownloader.
Both very different by concept.
Then I started PSI to combine unleashed and dotpup.
The dotpup-downloader still is there to access files listed in the wiki, but it might become obsolete in future using PSI.

Of course it would be nice to have one program that covers all at once, but I don't see that at moment, as pupget is a internal Puppytool, while the dotpup-tools are external approaches, that try to add things not yet available in pupget.

but the concept of one manager listing packages and categories that can searched makes much more sense than the current system of haphazardly looking through the forum.

Dotpup-installer and PSI have inbuilt search-functions.
But off course they don't list files yet, that were not copied yet from the forum to a mirror. That's a problem of course.

Mark

Nevermore · #67 Post by **Nevermore** » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 21:09

today i had a frugal install on 2.11 on an old pentium 500
everything went fine, and i installed psi from the forum link
now, first of all, the repositories list was messed, so i had to delete and copy and paste from the one Mark gave me
moreover, if i try to download the list, puppy tries to connect, but tries strange ip, such as 1.0.0.0 and doesn't find anything, obviously..
my internet is set up as DHCP
but i really have no clue what could cause this problem..
any idea?
Thanks

#68 Post by MU » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 22:24

do you have the same problem with pupget?
Both use wget to download, that might work erratic if you use a proxy.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... rc&t=11878

Mark

Nevermore · #69 Post by **Nevermore** » Sat 16 Dec 2006, 22:32

im not in front of the pc to try but i don't use a proxy..

jam · #70 Post by **jam** » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 18:26

Mark,

In addition to your great PSI Installer, you may wish to check out this packaging system called klik(http://klik.atekon.de) which allows you to run software without installing it, thereby eliminating dependency checking and other installation headaches. Here's a blog posting on the topic, which was posted on another forum:

[quote]# Kurt Pfeifle Says:
December 18th, 2006 at 1:05pm

@Jason:

You seem to have a “traditional

Bert · #71 Post by **Bert** » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 20:02

In addition to your great PSI Installer, you may wish to check out this packaging system called klik

Yes please!!!

But... Jam, Klik has been discussed before.
In this thread G2 explains it would be difficult to get Klik and Puppy cooperating.

And hereMark explains that Klik works sort of half in Puppy, but that it might be worth looking further into it

jam · #72 Post by **jam** » Mon 18 Dec 2006, 20:16

Oops !

Sorry for rehashing an old topic Bert. I try to avoid duplicating these topics by searching the threads, but I confess I did not search this time and jumped the gun. My apologies! In any event, just the fact that KLIK eliminates the dreaded dependency checks would really be a timesaver and would simplify software installation. Also, given the vast amount of packages/bundles available it would also save Mark and other developers from having to take the time to create the application bundles.

Lobster · #73 Post by **Lobster** » Sun 07 Jan 2007, 11:03

The PETget manager is the simplest way of adding programs to Puppy
Look in menu / Setup / package managers

Hopefully we will have more in Puppy 2.14 (Barbecue)

There are quite a bewildering array of methods to get packages running in
Puppy. Dotpups, loaders, PSI, .sfs, alien unleashed tarballs, rpm, deb
There are depositories and web pages links, forum add on and so on
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/DotPet

The end user wants a list of programs they can add or remove
from Puppy (that is what PETget offers)

2.13 included more contributions from other developers than ever
Will we be able to offer a simple way of installing and removing software.

Barry has mentioned he values MU's, Nathans and others ideas and input
for PETget.

Can we create .PETS with a modified dotpup wizard?
Do we have agreed spec, links, images (if to be used)?
(if so they can be added to the wiki link above)
Do we have a beta PETget to test?

My opinon is:
A software depository is difficult to keep updated.
Dotpups are VERY successful because they can be
easily created, made available and installed.
I would suggest that a dotpet wizard
has an automated upload facility
(however that is partly up to Mark)

If the .PET format is agreed on then enhanced or simple
PSI, Pupget or other managers become based on a standard.

Is such a standard emerging?

#74 Post by MU » Sun 18 Mar 2007, 06:01

I uploaded version 06.

It now has 2 new "folders":
Pupget packages-1
and
Pet packages-2

Those list all the .tar.gz and .pets from Barrys official server.
These lists now are created by a PHP-script on puppyfiles.org, so they are easy to update. That script is included in the server-tools folder (the scripts there are hidden, beginning with a dot).
Like this you easily can install pets for Puppy 2.14 in Puppy 2.12 or other Puppys.

I also added timeouts to the download-windows, so a non-responsive server will not block PSI.

And I added an option at startup, that offers to patch pupget/petget. (creates a backup of course).
The patch avoids the nasty behaviour, that petget uninstalls packages that it does not "like". For example dotpups with a similar name like an official dotpet.

I also wanted to add a new feature, gzipped dotpups.txt files.
The one from puppyfiles.org then is 25 kb instead of 250kb.
But I stopped that for compatibility reasons.
Must find a way first to do that without conflicts for other downloaders.

I made several tests in Muppy007 (Puppy 2.12) and Puppy 2.14.
Looked good so far, but I did not intensively test 2.14 (the new petget).
So try it at own risk, backup from time to time /root/.packages/

Note that .pets are NOT installed using PetGet, but using Nathan Fishers pkgtool (still the old version, as it works just fine here). But the new 0.4.1 seems to work, too.
As .pet is still in development, this makes sense.
Like this you might not have the automatic installation of dependencies.
Instead, just the PSI-dependency-checker runs, and tells you if you need other libraries.
This has advantages, and disadvantages.
If you like, you still can use petget of course to install .pets.

Mark

#75 Post by MU » Sun 18 Mar 2007, 06:48

there was a small bug, updated it.
Mark

setecio · #76 Post by **setecio** » Tue 10 Apr 2007, 19:02

Bookmarked

campamax · #77 Post by **campamax** » Fri 06 Jul 2007, 14:53

Can anyone tell me how to let this tool know I am behind a proxy server? Here at work we have a proxy server which opens only port 3838; the puppy package manager works fine, while when I launch PSI and I confirm to download the list again, I only get three fast-closing orange messages that I cannot read, and then the program window list remains empty.

Can someone help?!?

Thanks

#78 Post by MU » Fri 06 Jul 2007, 21:05

try to increase the timeouts.

edit:
/usr/local/Puppy-Software-Installer/resource/updatepackagelist

replace line 21
wget -T 6
with:
wget -T 30

If that does not help, and it is really a proxy-problem, try this program to edit the wget-configuration:
Wget-Wizard
http://dotpups.de/dotpups/Internet/

Mark

campamax · #79 Post by **campamax** » Tue 10 Jul 2007, 06:04

Thanks Mark: I will try as soon as I can and let you know.
Thank you

#80 Post by MU » Thu 26 Jul 2007, 23:17

Updated to version 07.

Changed: Timeout now is 1 minute.

Bugfix:
the mirror-list now may include empty lines.

Bugfix: You can UN-install packages again.

New feature:
When you uninstall, you can choose to do it with petget, or "quick".

In my Puppy 2.12, petget (pupget) is horribly slow, if you have installed lots of stuff, because it checks some dependencies.
So "quick" will simply delete a package without such a check, it does not use Petget.

It simply deletes all files listed in /root/packages/ABC.files
and the 2 files
/root/packages/ABC.files
/root/packages/ABC.keywords

This method does not remove entries from the dotpups-menu.
But that is outdated anyway, modern packages add ".desktop" files for the menu.

Try at own risk, backup your savefile first

I just made some quick tests, and did not test it carefully.

Mark

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