Fatdog64-710 Final [4 Dec 2016]

[belham2]

@belham2
In gslapt, click View>Upgradable,
or
click Mark All Upgrades, then click View>Marked
You can then mark or un-mark items as you see fit. Does that accomplish what you wish? I gave up on the FatdogUpdater some while back, since it is not integrated with gslapt. If it works better in the future, it will be very handy.

@step
Thanks for the wpa-supplicant update!

For the developers, since many or most of the packages for 700 will work for 710, would it be appropriate to include the 700 repositories in the 710 source list by default? Would it be good also to include Smokey01's repository? Are there any others out there which would be nice to know about? Alternately, could packages be copied (with permission) from these repositories, or the sites cited in the contrib thread, into the current contributed repository?
If I hadn't gone looking for more, I wouldn't have found a number of useful programs. A new user could easily think that Fatdog64 is not as "fat" as it in reality is, as a couple of recent reviews have wrongly claimed. Furthermore, packages which are not in the repositories, such as some listed in the contrib thread, don't integrate with gslapt, and so cannot be removed from the system or updated so efficiently. Perhaps this could be considered for a future release...

Thanks!

@dr. Dan: Darn it, while do i always forget to click "view" and instead expect the updates to popup individually, grrrr @ myself Thanks dr. Dan.


@all--regarding step's "wpa-supplicant" update----is anyone seeing this "after" updating? After applying Step's update, I've nearly completely lost my wifi in the 'frugal' install of Fatdog64-710 laptop everyone uses in the house. This is the message that appears in terminal:

Code: Select all

SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not possible due to RFKILL

...and it loops repeatedly on this as wifi goes beserk....sometimes the wifi re-connects, then sec/mins later, it disconnects again......popping this message up over and over.

Yes, it's an older Intel laptop

I opened a terminal and typed in:

Code: Select all

 rfkill unblock wifi

then..

Code: Select all

rfkill unblock all

then..

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rfkill list

..to make sure both hard and soft block were set to "no", but it didn't matter, the problem kept repeating itself and it's like the laptop suddenly dropped acid and/or is psychotic.

So, I had to rollback to the full backup I keep of the 'frugal' Fatdog64-710, to how it was before I updated with Step's 'wpa-supplicant', and now, things are fine again and the laptop's wifi is strong & stable as a rock.


If I can't figure out why and/or how to fix this in the next few days, then I'm going to be forced to remove Fatdog64 completely, as I've 'wpa-supplicant' patched every other OS in the house for the family. It is just Fatdog64-710 and that damn Intel laptop. Will post if I can get it figured out today and/or tomorrow.

[dr. Dan]

@belham2:

Does it cause the same problem if you reboot without savefile, then install just the wpa-supplicant update?

[step]

I was going to ask the same question...

[step]

I recently decided to attempt to make a package, so I went to add the fd64-devx_710.sfs from the control panel SFS manager, but it wasn't listed. ... A quick re-check of the SFS manager shows it not listed still. Just an FYI.

Thanks to dr Dan, Jake29 and others who have reported this kind of issue. The Fatdog64 team has re-written the script for the next version of Fatdog64. The new script is deemed release quality. Unpack the attached tar file in your root folder (/). You can start the SFS manager from the Fatdog64 control panel or from the command line.

[belham2]

I was going to ask the same question...

Hi Step and Dr. dan,

Yes, even removing the savefile, then booting a pristine Fatdog64-710 and installing step's wpa-supplicant fix, the issue kept occurring. Booted (on another USB stick) a pristine Fatdog64-710, and not installing step's fix, there was no problems as the wifi connected and was stable as a rock.

So, I was forced to remove Fatdog64 from the laptops here as a choice for the family/kids, and go to Slacko 700 & Phil's & Barry's latest Xenial-based releases where I had already put in the wpa_supplicant fixes for them, with no problems.

Thanks for your help, hopefully I can find some time in the next month or so to figure out why, and 4 different laptops with different set ups and wireless chips, that step's wpa_supplicant fix caused this behavior.

Saving grace is at least for myself, on a "lan" network, I keep Fatdog64-710 up and running in a 'frugal' install-----because I like it.

[step]

Thanks for your help, hopefully I can find some time in the next month or so to figure out why, and 4 different laptops with different set ups and wireless chips, that step's wpa_supplicant fix caused this behavior.

You're welcome belham2, I hope you will indeed find some time to investigate the root cause for your rig because this wpa_supplicant fix is the planned base for the next Fatdog64 beta...

[jake29]

Apologies - post moved to correct thread.

[proebler]

My apologies for not giving earlier feedback on the issue of wpa_supplicant-2.6.

I had no problem with installing and using step's wpa-supplicant-2.6-x86_64-1.txz
With it, there is no longer a need to modify /etc/xdg/Startup/WpaGui , thanks. [my post of 25/10/17]

I found the cause of the problems I had with wpa_gui.
I was using an initrd from which I had removed etc/wpa_supplicant.conf , but wpa_gui does not work/scan without at least a basic wpa_supplcant.conf containing:

Code: Select all

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=users
update_config=1 
p2p_disabled=1

The Network Wizard however, either from the Control Panel or from right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, can be used without wpa_supplicant.conf .
I have now a better understanding of how the two connection utilities can be used.
I am now also aware, that Network Wizard uses and stores a hashed (?) Authentication[PSK] key.
This is in contrast to the wpa_gui/wpa_supplicant.conf , which uses and stores the plain text Authentication[PSK] key.

The Network Wizard's Main Menu option "Disable WpaGui" was confusing.
I have learned that when "Disable WpaGui" is toggled to read "Enable WpaGui", then connection [wlan0] will automatically take place at boot up.
I could not at first understand what "Disable WpaGui" really is for. It seemed to do nothing, as the WpaGui in the panel tray could still be initiated.
Indeed the WpaGui retains some functionality when "Disabled", and if so used, can also lead to confusing situations .
[Edit] There are unexpected interactions between the Network Wizard and the WpaGui.

Fatdog Help "How to connect to a network" is outdated and ought to be revised.
I attach a [very basic] modified Networking.md

regards
proebler

[belham2]

My apologies for not giving earlier feedback on the issue of wpa_supplicant-2.6.

I had no problem with installing and using step's wpa-supplicant-2.6-x86_64-1.txz
With it, there is no longer a need to modify /etc/xdg/Startup/WpaGui , thanks. [my post of 25/10/17]

I found the cause of the problems I had with wpa_gui.
I was using an initrd from which I had removed etc/wpa_supplicant.conf , but wpa_gui does not work/scan without at least a basic wpa_supplcant.conf containing:

Code: Select all

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=users
update_config=1 
p2p_disabled=1

The Network Wizard however, either from the Control Panel or from right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, can be used without wpa_supplicant.conf .
I have now a better understanding of how the two connection utilities can be used.
I am now also aware, that Network Wizard uses and stores a hashed (?) Authentication[PSK] key.
This is in contrast to the wpa_gui/wpa_supplicant.conf , which uses and stores the plain text Authentication[PSK] key.

The Network Wizard's Main Menu option "Disable WpaGui" was confusing.
I have learned that when "Disable WpaGui" is toggled to read "Enable WpaGui", then connection [wlan0] will automatically take place at boot up.
I could not at first understand what "Disable WpaGui" really is for. It seemed to do nothing, as the WpaGui in the panel tray could still be initiated.
Indeed the WpaGui retains some functionality when "Disabled", and if so used, can also lead to confusing situations .

Fatdog Help "How to connect to a network" is outdated and ought to be revised.
I attach a [very basic] modified Networking.md

regards
proebler

Hi Step & Proebler!

First of all, my apologies step for not getting back to you on the wpa-supplicant thing. Last week I did a whole fresh, stock install of Fatdog64-710 (downloaded from ibiblio), then applied your fix, and all was fine. So, even though I had run my Fatdogs without the savefile, and then tested your wpa_supplicant & was having problems, something was not right. Then it hit me....back when James was teaching us (was it early this year or last year, can't recall??) how to build our own Fatdogs using his scripts----I was still using that final custom-build I did with that process. Sure enough, it was the culprit for things going wrong install the wpa_supplicant fix (what, I am not exactly sure, but I must've have done something, lol). Anyhow, all is fixed now and running good.

I highlighted something proebler mentioned----boy, I have always thought the Network Wizard needs to be re-done. It is, overall, confusing as heck. Also, especially the entering of WPA and such....it just is not clear what and what-not should be entered, as that box that pops up seems to encourage you to enter everything possible of what it is showing (which shouldn't be done).

Lastly, thanks, Proebler, for the networking.md....it should at the very least be a lot clearer than currently what Fatdog has regarding 'how to connect to a network'

[step]

Hi proebler,

thanks for the revised Networking.md. Funny enough, I started editing Networking.html (the source for the .md) just yesterday. I will incorporate your text, with your permission, if it still applies. Still applies? Well, the dev team has been quietly improving Fatdog64's network modules for the next release (no dates yet!). It's a step forward. It's still based on the wpa_gui / Network Wizard architecture, which has its merits, I think, although it was (will be???) difficult to use. When beta test will start (no dates yet!) we'll see what people think about the improvements.

I had no problem with installing and using step's wpa-supplicant-2.6-x86_64-1.txz
With it, there is no longer a need to modify /etc/xdg/Startup/WpaGui , thanks. [my post of 25/10/17]

Good to know.

I found the cause of the problems I had with wpa_gui.
I was using an initrd from which I had removed etc/wpa_supplicant.conf , but wpa_gui does not work/scan without at least a basic wpa_supplcant.conf containing:

Code: Select all

ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=users
update_config=1 
p2p_disabled=1

Correct. Take note everyone, that in the next OS version /etc/wpa_supplication.conf will include more default settings, and you will need to include them in your new custom ISOs.

The Network Wizard however, either from the Control Panel or from right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, can be used without wpa_supplicant.conf .

Correct. wpa_gui and Network Wizard are different setup and connection managers, they don't need each other, and aren't quite fully aware of each other. For that reason, in the next OS version the wpa_gui icon menu will not include an entry to the wizard. Network Wizard will be located in Control Panel only, and be renamed Network Setup, because it isn't a wizard after all. Network Setup is a text based program, which allows you to start connections before X is running. Some users who run Fatdog for custom applications, appreciate that capability.

I am now also aware, that Network Wizard uses and stores a hashed (?) Authentication[PSK] key.
This is in contrast to the wpa_gui/wpa_supplicant.conf , which uses and stores the plain text Authentication[PSK] key.

wpa_supplicant - the backend behind wpa_gui - can handle encrypted PSK keys. You need an encryption tool, wpa_passphrase. Edit /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf and replace the clear-text password with the encrypted one. Other users have reported that it works, although I haven't tested it myself.

The Network Wizard's Main Menu option "Disable WpaGui" was confusing.
I have learned that when "Disable WpaGui" is toggled to read "Enable WpaGui", then connection [wlan0] will automatically take place at boot up.
I could not at first understand what "Disable WpaGui" really is for. It seemed to do nothing, as the WpaGui in the panel tray could still be initiated.

Simply the Disable WpaGui entry in Network Wizard sets a boot time flag that keeps wpa_gui (tray icon) from starting when you next reboot. This also keeps the backend wpa_supplicant from starting. In Fatdog 710 this is the only way you can set up a wireless network with a fixed IP address. If you don't need to do that, don't disable wpa_gui.

Indeed the WpaGui retains some functionality when "Disabled", and if so used, can also lead to confusing situations .
[Edit] There are unexpected interactions between the Network Wizard and the WpaGui.

I agree. Hopefully we've fixed some of them for the next OS version.

Fatdog Help "How to connect to a network" is outdated and ought to be revised.

Badly overdue.

I attach a [very basic] modified Networking.md

Thank you.

[step]

Last week I did a whole fresh, stock install of Fatdog64-710 (downloaded from ibiblio), then applied your fix, and all was fine. [...] how to build our own Fatdogs using his scripts----I was still using that final custom-build I did with that process. Sure enough, it was the culprit for things going wrong[...] Anyhow, all is fixed now and running good.

Thank you for letting me know. I'm happy that your issue is solved.

I highlighted something proebler mentioned----boy, I have always thought the Network Wizard needs to be re-done. It is, overall, confusing as heck. Also, especially the entering of WPA and such....it just is not clear what and what-not should be entered, as that box that pops up seems to encourage you to enter everything possible of what it is showing (which shouldn't be done).

See above my reply to proebler. Most likely we'll keep the input dialog as is, because cdialog, the tool that draws the dialogs in a text terminal, isn't as flexible as a GUI tool like gtkdialog.
Anyway, in the next Fatdog version wpa_gui is intented to be the main connection manager. Most people will use it, while Network Setup will be for users with special custom applications.

[dr. Dan]

My input on the "How to connect to a network" help page:

First, since wpa-gui is the default and primary networking utility, the Network Setup utility should not be mentioned at the top, but left out until the section where it is referenced.

Or with the Network Wizard, which can be found by right clicking on the wpa_gui icon.

Second, after the step by step instructions for wpa-gui, which are reasonably useful, there is this bit:

If you have problems connecting to a network, try right clicking on the wpa_gui icon and select Restart Wireless. This will restart the wpa_gui services (wpa_supplicant, wpa_cli, and dhcpcd). If you want stop the wpa_gui services, right click and select Quit Wireless.

It would be more helpful to give a brief explanation of the use of each of the choices available from the right-click menu on the icon. It might even be useful to ad a link to the network help page in that menu.

I don't have feedback about the Network Setup help because I have not figured it out, except for possibly using it to connect with an ethernet cable (which is typically automatic for me when I have to use one.)

Related to this, rcrsn51 and jamesbond discussed peasywifi in the forum some time ago, but it never made it into the repository. I eventually figured out how to run it, but since I am generally satisfied with wpa-gui, I haven't fiddled with it. Just the same, that utility, and some instructions, would perhaps be a good option for some users.

My primary connection issue is on one laptop running entirely from a 16Gb thumb drive. Suspending it often disables the wlan system, but I haven't been able to find clear instruction for adding a hook to the suspend system in order to alleviate the problem, which, as I have read, is commonly the best solution. Of course, I think it should be automated in some kind of optional laptop configuration script or the like in the Control Panel, along with perhaps some other portability-related adjustments.

--------

I have some friends who use Mint, so I have it available, and practice using it so that I can give them assistance, but I am always dissatisfied with using it, and am glad to get back to the pleasant and useful Fatdog64 system.

Dan

[jamesbond]

dr.Dan: step and kirk have done a lot to improve the network experience in the upcoming release. The Networking document is also overdue for update. Network Setup will not be featured prominently anymore - wpa_gui is now capable of doing stuff that previously required Network Setup.

Related to this, rcrsn51 and jamesbond discussed peasywifi in the forum some time ago, but it never made it into the repository. I eventually figured out how to run it, but since I am generally satisfied with wpa-gui, I haven't fiddled with it. Just the same, that utility, and some instructions, would perhaps be a good option for some users.

rcrsn51 prefers that people get the official version directly from him.

My primary connection issue is on one laptop running entirely from a 16Gb thumb drive. Suspending it often disables the wlan system, but I haven't been able to find clear instruction for adding a hook to the suspend system in order to alleviate the problem, which, as I have read, is commonly the best solution. Of course, I think it should be automated in some kind of optional laptop configuration script or the like in the Control Panel, along with perhaps some other portability-related adjustments.

The suspend/wakeup script is located at /etc/acpi/actions/suspend.sh. The default contents stops network before suspend, and re-starts it after resume. If network doesn't work well after resume, it might well be the network driver. The usual suggested approach is to unload the network driver ("rmmod module-name") and load it again after suspend.

[proebler]

Some of the wizardry you can try [no magic wand necessary].

Computer is Hp EliteBook 6930p with Intel Core 2.

I did this with a fresh, stock standard frugal install on hard drive and using a savefile.

- check /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf does not have a connection profile.
- use the Network Wizard to connect to wlan [open by right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, bottom right].
use auto DHCP,
scan & select the network & enter the necessary information,
activate the connection,
Disable WpaGui,
Exit.

- Save & re-boot, the system should auto connect to wlan0
- check /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf does not have a connection profile.
- bring up the Network Wizard through [IMPORTANT] /usr/sbin/network-setup.sh
check that the 4th item of the Network Wizard's Main Menu reads "Enable WpaGui"
Exit the Network Wizard

- Open WpaGui from the icon in the panel tray, it should show the connection to wlan0
in Manage Networks it shows 0: network-name

(now lets begin with the fun)

activate a scan,
when it shows the network(s), double click the one you have previously activated with the Network Wizard,
continue to enter the PSK,
then chose "Add"
in Manage Networks it now shows 2 entries: 0: network-name and 1: network-name
- check /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf still does not have a connection profile.

- now check /etc/network-setup/access/wlan0-network-name
it contains now two (2) connection profiles, one with a hashed PSK and one with a plain text PSK

- using WpaGui do a "Disconnect" followed by a "Connect", both should work
using WpaGui do a "Disconnect", then select the 'other' Network (1) from the drop down list, it will re-connect automatically.

- Now, with the WpaGui still open, bring up the Network Wizard by right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, bottom right,
when it is open, simply <Cancel> [or Exit],the Network Wizard will close and at the same time the network connection will be lost !

(**)the WpaGui will indicate "Could not get status from wpa_supplicant"
the WpaGui can no longer be used to (re-)connect
the WpaGui does no longer show any Network
Scan in the WpaGui does no longer work

- using "Reconnect" from the right-click menu of the WpaGui icon in the panel tray has no effect

- using "Restart Connection" from the right-click menu of the WpaGui icon in the panel tray CLOSES the WpaGui.

- re-open the WpaGui through the icon in the panel tray
the Status now shows "Disconnected" and an IP address is shown
Scan in the WpaGui now works again, doing a Scan makes the Status change from "Disconnected" to > "Inactive"

One could now go through the process of adding a network. The connection profile would now be written to wpa_supplicant.conf !
Let's instead continue with the wizardry :

- bring up the Network Wizard by right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray
the Main Menu shows a changed/toggled "Disable WpaGui" [!],
meaning that the above action of "Restart Connection" has [unexpectedly] changed the Network Wizard's Main Menu from "Enable WpaGui" to > "Disable WpaGui"
- now toggle the "Disable WpaGui" back to > "Enable WpaGui"

(and the fun continues)

- now <Cancel> [or Exit] the Network Wizard,
the still open WpaGui again changes Status , it has gone from "Disconnected to "Could not get status from wpa_supplicant"
which brings us back to point (**) above where WpaGui no longer works.

(and the fun continues)

- bring up the Network Wizard by right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray
activate the network connection which is still in "Activate settings now" > wlan0
then <Cancel> [or Exit] the Network Wizard

- check the still open WpaGui, it shows a 'normal' Status of "Completed (station)" and in Manage Networks: 0(1) network-name

- open the Control Panel > Network > Network Wizard, then <Cancel> [or Exit] the Network Wizard

- check the still open WpaGui, that it still shows a 'normal' Status of "Completed (station)" and in Manage Networks: 0(1) network-name

- bring up the Network Wizard through [IMPORTANT] /usr/sbin/network-setup.sh, then <Cancel> [or Exit] the Network Wizard

- check again the still open WpaGui, that it still shows a 'normal' Status of "Completed (station)" and in Manage Networks: 0(1) network-name

- bring up the Network Wizard by right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, then ...
(now comes the surprise wizardry !)
<Cancel> [or Exit] the Network Wizard
- and again check the still open WpaGui,
>>> GO FIGURE !! <<<

I think that more of the queer-type wizardry could be done through the WpAGui's Manage Network's Edit/Remove/Add. Perhaps someone else will have fun with that.

What comes out of what I show above, is that the 'cross-talk' between the Network Wizard(s !) and WpaGui is problematic.
The Network Wizard definitely can create confusion.

I much agree with dr,Dan in that: "It would be [more] helpful to give a brief explanation of the use of each of the choices available from the right-click menu on the icon."

@step
I have used /usr/sbin/wpa_passphrase from the command line once, I think, it seemed to work ok.
Perhaps it should have an entry in the Control Panel > Network? Otherwise it is destined to remain hidden to many.
Please feel free to use what is in my previous post when you revise the Networking.md.

Finally:
One can [probably] also quite successfully run network/wlan connections in FD without EVER noticing any problem.
Simply DON'T be an apprentice Network Wizard !!

regards
proebler

[jamesbond]

@proebler:

- Now, with the WpaGui still open, bring up the Network Wizard by right-clicking the WpaGui icon in the panel tray, bottom right,
when it is open, simply <Cancel> [or Exit],the Network Wizard will close and at the same time the network connection will be lost !

This has been fixed.

What comes out of what I show above, is that the 'cross-talk' between the Network Wizard(s !) and WpaGui is problematic.
The Network Wizard definitely can create confusion.

Network Wizard was meant for fallback for functions that wasn't supported by wpa-gui: wired ethernet and static IPs. In the upcoming release, both of these functions are now handled by wpa-gui directly. The only reason to use Network Wizard is that if you want to run a terminal-based network manager.

[dr. Dan]

@jamesbond

thanks for the quick response!

rcrsn51 prefers that people get the official version directly from him.

In that case, some kind of note to users having problems including a link to that information could be helpful. Like I wrote, I am not having problems, and don't need to use it, but there have been several comments from frustrated users who might benefit from the option.

The suspend/wakeup script is located at /etc/acpi/actions/suspend.sh. The default contents stops network before suspend, and re-starts it after resume. If network doesn't work well after resume, it might well be the network driver. The usual suggested approach is to unload the network driver ("rmmod module-name") and load it again after suspend.

Thank you! I have attempted to do that, and will hope for good results! Much searching had not previously found specific useful information, only advice to "add a hook."

One more bit of information for the help file: Deleting a network from the manage networks tab of wpa-gui seems to cause issues. Perhaps there is some improvement coming in the next version, but if the issue remains, a note to the user to open the Network drop-down list, select "Select any Network", then click File>Save Configuration (Ctrl+S) after deleting a network might save someone some hassle.

Network Wizard was meant for fallback for functions that wasn't supported by wpa-gui: wired ethernet and static IPs. In the upcoming release, both of these functions are now handled by wpa-gui directly. The only reason to use Network Wizard is that if you want to run a terminal-based network manager.

This seems good.

Thanks!

[step]

click File>Save Configuration (Ctrl+S)

I added a prominent note about remembering to Ctrl+S after any configuration changes. Thank you.

[prehistoric]

Any word on updating to Firefox 57, released November 14, 2017?

I believe this breaks the assumptions used in running as spot, plus those in the update script, due to new restrictions on writing to system files in Linux versions.

I'm sticking with Firefox 56.0.3 and Google_Chrome-11122017 (64-bit), but would like to know what happens next.

[jamesbond]

Any word on updating to Firefox 57, released November 14, 2017?

I just tried. Use the updated update-firefox.sh script (not available yet - will be in next release), it automatically installs gtk3 and libapulse. Launch browser, save file to /home/spot, works. Play youtube, also works (all as user spot).

I believe this breaks the assumptions used in running as spot, plus those in the update script, due to new restrictions on writing to system files in Linux versions.

Only tested for 2 minutes. It works. By the way, next release will have a big change for spot - it's home no longer in /root/spot. It will move to /home/spot.

cheers!

[prehistoric]

...Use the updated update-firefox.sh script (not available yet - will be in next release), it automatically installs gtk3 and libapulse...

Grrrr. No problem with gtk3 and libapulse, but I need that updated update-firefox.sh. (I don't trust myself anymore to make significant changes to scripts. Too many implicit assumptions to discover.)

It's time for me to build a new installation from scratch anyway. Several experiments have damaged the one I'm using at the moment.

I'll wait on the new improved fatdog. Also looking to try Gimp 2.9.6, for increased color depth and wavelet decomposition, though that branch is still not stable. Parallel processing remains problematic.
I'm expecting to see 2.8.22 in fatdog.

Looking like we will all be forced to move to gtk3 in a year or so.

I am dangerously close to building yet another power computer when component prices fall after Christmas.

(Why? I don't know. Just curious. My Raspberry Pi would do most of what I need.)