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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Fatdog64-710 Final [4 Dec 2016]
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3036
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2017, 09:01    Post subject:  

It's working as designed.

In 710 the default compression for splitted-out basesfs is "gzip". The resulting basesfs is bigger (about 150% - 200% larger) compard to xz compression used in older Fatdogs, but the actual splitting process is about 4x (that is, 400%) faster.

If small size is really what you're after, you can always run the splitter like this:
Code:
BASESFS_COMPRESSION="-comp xz" fatdog-split-initrd.sh ...
Or for even smaller compression, use BASESFS_COMPRESSION="-comp xz -Xbcj x86". There are even ways to make it even smaller but it will affect run-time performance so it's not recommended.
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jd7654

Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2017, 15:29    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:

If small size is really what you're after, you can always run the splitter like this:
Code:
BASESFS_COMPRESSION="-comp xz" fatdog-split-initrd.sh ...


OK, that works, thanks.

Did split on main system, Core i7:
- humongous initrd: 344M
- split fd64.sfs: 353M, plus small initrd: 3.5M = 357M
That looks more normal like previous 70x base sfs sizes.
- split time (xz): 90 sec
- split time (gz): 20 sec

The split time, which is only done once is not the main issue, the slow boot time improvement is worth it.

Test system, boot to desktop, frugal HD install, AMD Vision E-350: (BIOS)
- huge initrd: 200 s
- small initrd: 50 s

Also tried on newer system, frugal USB install, ATOM Bay Trail Z3740: (32-bit EFI)
- huge initrd: 60 s
- small initrd: 30 s

That works for me.
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dr. Dan

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon 27 Feb 2017, 22:57    Post subject:  

@jamesbond: Thanks for looking, and I am only intending to be helpful to someone.

Just for curiosity, since I really do not know that much about system stuff, what files are in your laptop's path "/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT0/" (AKA the location of "$POWER_PATH/*/charge_now" on my systems? I had success on a Dell and a HP. I could try an Acer and an Asus, just to learn something.

I might be able to try running 702 and then 710 as a test, but it would be fairly inconvenient just now, so I'll ask for low expectations.

By the way, I installed FD710 on this HP using the Windows bootloader option, but it required a fair amount of research to learn how to configure the Windows 7 boot system to work. It was far from automatic!

Thanks as always.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3036
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Thu 02 Mar 2017, 15:46    Post subject:  

dr. Dan wrote:
@jamesbond: Thanks for looking, and I am only intending to be helpful to someone.
That's the spirit!

Quote:
Just for curiosity, since I really do not know that much about system stuff, what files are in your laptop's path "/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT0/" (AKA the location of "$POWER_PATH/*/charge_now" on my systems? I had success on a Dell and a HP. I could try an Acer and an Asus, just to learn something.

Well for the first thing, I don't have BAT0, I have BAT1. I don't have "charge_now", but I do have energy_now. My laptop is a Vaio.

Quote:
I might be able to try running 702 and then 710 as a test, but it would be fairly inconvenient just now, so I'll ask for low expectations.
I don't think it has anything to do with the versions. Just that different battery drivers (or ACPI) expose the same information in different way.

Quote:
By the way, I installed FD710 on this HP using the Windows bootloader option, but it required a fair amount of research to learn how to configure the Windows 7 boot system to work. It was far from automatic!
When you have installed it, the installer will create a file that you can run to automate the process; but it is highly recommended that you read the file before doing anything. There are several modes of Win7 installation, but I remember if you follow the common cases, you should be able to find that file in your C: drive when you boot to Windows. Did you see this file? What exactly did the problem you encounter?

Quote:
Thanks as always.
Much welcome.
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dr. Dan

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu 02 Mar 2017, 16:22    Post subject:  

@ jamesbond
jamesbond wrote:
dr. Dan wrote:
I might be able to try running 702 and then 710 as a test, but it would be fairly inconvenient just now, so I'll ask for low expectations.
This was in regard to your suggestion that I compare idle state between the two for battery consumption.

Quote:
Quote:
By the way, I installed FD710 on this HP using the Windows bootloader option, but it required a fair amount of research to learn how to configure the Windows 7 boot system to work. It was far from automatic!
When you have installed it, the installer will create a file that you can run to automate the process; but it is highly recommended that you read the file before doing anything. There are several modes of Win7 installation, but I remember if you follow the common cases, you should be able to find that file in your C: drive when you boot to Windows. Did you see this file? What exactly did the problem you encounter?
Thanks, it is working fine. I read the instructions repeatedly, ran the .exe file, but it did not accomplish the install successfully, so I modified the necessary files myself. I don't have enough understanding to help with diagnostics.

Quote:
Quote:
Thanks as always.
Much welcome.
Smile
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3036
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:34    Post subject:  

dr. Dan wrote:
This was in regard to your suggestion that I compare idle state between the two for battery consumption.
Oh, right. Well if the difference is not too big and you're not much affected then perhaps it's just the variation I said earlier.

Quote:
Thanks, it is working fine. I read the instructions repeatedly, ran the .exe file, but it did not accomplish the install successfully, so I modified the necessary files myself. I don't have enough understanding to help with diagnostics.
No worries. Feel free to contact me if you have any problems with that in the future. In writing OS installer for dual-boot systems, "safety is number one priority" - I would rather the installation fail, rather that it messes the original OS the point that it won't boot. I tested the installer against pristine Win7, things may have changed with SP1 release and whatnot.

cheers!

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stemsee

Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 1908
Location: In The Way

PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar 2017, 16:08    Post subject:  

how to remove duplicate or any entry from fatdog-quick-locale-switcher?
xscreenshot-20170304T193802.png
 Description   
 Filesize   19.56 KB
 Viewed   830 Time(s)

xscreenshot-20170304T193802.png

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3036
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 04 Mar 2017, 21:01    Post subject:  

Quick Locale Switcher is L18L's brainchild. If he's around it's best you get help from him. Otherwise I will look at this later.

Announcement for derivative builders (since you're one of them Laughing): Next release of Fatdog will no longer have /root/spot. It will be relocated to /home/spot. Compatibility symlink will be provided.

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6684
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 05 Mar 2017, 21:56    Post subject:  

Fatdog review in the latest Distrowatch.....
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20170306#fatdog64

Quote:
Final thoughts

Fatdog64 710 is a good choice for a someone looking for a distribution to put on a flash drive to use on multiple computers. The distribution's savefile persistence feature is really easy to set up and use. Even if not using a savefile to keep changes between sessions, Fatdog64 ships with enough software to be able to do most general computing tasks. Document editing, browsing the web, e-mail, even playing a few games can be accomplished using this super small distribution. While I personally would have opted for a few different packages here and there, Fatdog64 has a good collection of software and should prove useful for many users.
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3036
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 06 Mar 2017, 06:20    Post subject:  

Thanks for the info James C. That's very nice review Smile

One of the "issue" is inability to install into UEFI systems. True while we have plenty of documentation on how to do, there is no automated GUI tool. Perhaps we should write one.

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steff99

Joined: 09 Mar 2017
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu 09 Mar 2017, 17:15    Post subject: 10 min review of fatdog  

Hi I started using fatdog today. I had some good experiences and some not so good. so instead of listing bad things, I thought I would list some good things and then offer some ideas for improvement.

I downloaded fatdog because I needed a 64bit pup with up to date support.

I liked how the most popular apps would download without problems.
I downloded skype without any problems at all.

however my issues came when I tried to download less known apps.

I noticed that fatdogs internet connection was done via a text base window. this worked but it was quite different to using frisbee, and being able to connect much faster.
I would offer a suggestion to integrate frisbee into the pup for ease of use.

I also love thunar file manager and the xfce desktop. I tired multiple times to get that working but it was impossible. perhaps a derivitive would go well?

my next step was to install java jre 8. I had big problems with this as the package in the repo was only version 1.7
jre 1.7 is very outdated now and has 100's of holes in it.
time for an update perhaps?

my
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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 646

PostPosted: Fri 10 Mar 2017, 10:30    Post subject: Re: 10 min review of fatdog  

steff99 wrote:
my next step was to install java jre 8. I had big problems with this as the package in the repo was only version 1.7
jre 1.7 is very outdated now and has 100's of holes in it.
time for an update perhaps?

my
Fatdog doesn't package Java anymore in the repo, because Java is often updated and you usually want to use the latest version.
--- so Fatdog gives you the facility to do exactly that.

Howto:

1. Go in Fatdog control Panel, in last tab you will find Get Java Script, click it to run.
OR
Open terminal. Run "getjava.sh" (I suggest using this method as in terminal you can see if some error occurs and report it back here.)

2. It will run and attempt to fetch the latest version of Java JDK, and make a Java SFS out of it, located in /root. You can then use the SFS just like any other SFS (move it elsewhere, load it, etc).
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3036
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 11 Mar 2017, 04:07    Post subject:  

@steff99:

Thank you for the feedback.

Quote:
I noticed that fatdogs internet connection was done via a text base window.

The text-based network manager is meant for "more advanced" things like using static IP, etc.
For a typical situation using DHCP etc, it is much easier to use wpa_gui, as documented here:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/Networking.html

PS: This document is also available locally in file:///usr/share/doc/faqs/Networking.html
PPS: Please ignore the information about "network-wizard". That stuff no longer exists and has been replaced with the text-based network manager you've seen before. The docs needs to be updated.

Quote:
this worked but it was quite different to using frisbee, and being able to connect much faster.

Frisbee is faster, or the text-based manager is faster?

Quote:
I would offer a suggestion to integrate frisbee into the pup for ease of use.

Suggestion noted, thanks.

Quote:
I also love thunar file manager and the xfce desktop. I tired multiple times to get that working but it was impossible. perhaps a derivitive would go well?

We tested XFCE a few years ago. At that time it was noticeably bigger, and slower, than openbox/rox combination. We may try again later on.

A "derivative" of Fatdog, sort of, is available here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=108908. I'm not sure it has XFCE, though.

If Thunar is what you're looking for, perhaps you can try something similar: there is "spacefm" on the repo (spacefm is a fork of "pcmanfm").

drunkjedi wrote:

steff99 wrote:
my next step was to install java jre 8.

Open terminal. Run "getjava.sh" (I suggest using this method as in terminal you can see if some error occurs and report it back here.)

drunkjedi's suggestion is right. However the built-in getjava.sh has stopped working for the latest version of JDK 8 now; (no) thanks to Oracle changing their download URL, grrrr. Download the attached package (remove the ".gz" extension), install it, and you'll get updated getjava.sh that works.

EDIT: To make things easier I have uploaded Java JDK 8u121, which you can download using SFS Manager. In the future you can use getjava.sh to get updates.
getjava-update-1.0-noarch-1.txz.gz
Description  Remove .gz extension, then install with right-click from ROX. Or use installpkg from terminal.
gz

 Download 
Filename  getjava-update-1.0-noarch-1.txz.gz 
Filesize  1.54 KB 
Downloaded  10 Time(s) 

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stemsee

Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 1908
Location: In The Way

PostPosted: Sat 11 Mar 2017, 20:30    Post subject:  

I added 'sort -unique to pipe to get rid of dups but still would like to know how to limit locales shown.

jamesbond wrote:
Thanks for the info James C. That's very nice review Smile

One of the "issue" is inability to install into UEFI systems. True while we have plenty of documentation on how to do, there is no automated GUI tool. Perhaps we should write one.


Nice review!

I have one partition on my laptop labelled 'FATDOG_LIVE' with fatdog (stemsee.png and files now) REfind (or whatever it is called). Works great! A bit slower as three menus get loaded in sequence!

I can boot most windows pc with it on usb and secure boot off. When a windows pc has secure boot on here is what i do.
1) Boot to windows.
2) Copy efi dir to C: drive (after backing up any same-name-dirs 'boot' 'Boot' (sometimes need to copy also boot dir; othertimes just to make sure copy keys, data, efi,boot ad drivers) yes, windows lets you copy dirs but not files to root drive on secure public systems (libraries, Univeristies etc)
3) Restart pc with FATDOG_LIVE usb plugged in
4) Boots every time!

I wanted to ask you james about what goes on during boot, and whether mount or rename or cp commands are available, and if so could this process be scripted to work on win pc at boot time. How?

cheers
stemsee
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L18L

Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 3360
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

PostPosted: Sun 12 Mar 2017, 14:13    Post subject: Fatdog64-710 Final [4 Dec 2016]
Subject description: duplicate entry in fatdog-quick-locale-switcher
 

stemsee wrote:
how to remove duplicate or any entry from fatdog-quick-locale-switcher?

Sorry, I am not able to create duplicate entries.
How did you get them?

stemsee wrote:
how to remove duplicate or any entry from fatdog-quick-locale-switcher?

Delete the corresponding directory in /usr/lib64/locale. (worked for me, zh_CN.utf8 deleted)

Code:
# locale -a
C
de_AT.utf8
de_DE.utf8
en_AU
en_AU.utf8
en_US
en_US.utf8
fr_FR.utf8
POSIX
ru_UA.utf8
#


Is Brazilian translation in progress?
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