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corepup
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 350

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jul 2018, 19:57    Post subject:  

rockedge, im just going to add a profile for debians icewm, what do you think? that way you can just add "icewm" to profiles, and have the full version.

we dont care about running the very stripped down one, do we? (the option is still there, just dont run mcorepup with the icewm profile added)

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 13:08    Post subject:  

hi all

just an update and review

a very important piece of corepup
will be an efficient way (a script)
to convert sfs debs and other packages to tcz
this is one of the tasks I am working on

nosystemdthanks (with the help of rockedge)
is working on his mcorepup build system
which im sure will have many sophisticated functions

eventually as soon as my work schedule allows
I will make corepups out of tc 9

as usual
I am also rebuilding my manual system
to further develop things

and many more tasks

excelsior

wanderer
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 845
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 14:57    Post subject:  

Code:
im just going to add a profile for debians icewm, what do you think? that way you can just add "icewm" to profiles, and have the full version.


nice! full version for now..stripped down later. just to get stuff really going.

I had an issue today running a successful mcorepup05.fig.py using a Bionic 18.05 kernel 4.17.9 operating system..... some permission thing on line 51..I think it was......I will get the details when I am at my desk
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 350

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 16:30    Post subject:  

if you mean line 51 of the translated python, thats nearly impossible, the only thing written to even near line 51 (no matter what you do to change the fig source) is sys.stdout.

maybe youre having trouble writing to a file, which is interesting, though line 51 shouldnt call anything that tries to write to a file.

screencap or paste the text output of the error please, and yes i noticed that you cant do that until later, dont worry about that. and as usual, thank you for trying to run this from various systems. it wont work from everywhere, but it should work from more places at least.

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 845
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 17:11    Post subject:  

I am about to run it again I will be able to pinpoint the problem I encountered.

otherwise here is the latest Corepup-7 I made using mcorepup05.fig
running the newest Tor Browser.
screenshot_0726205405-500px.png
 Description   
 Filesize   82.63 KB
 Viewed   320 Time(s)

screenshot_0726205405-500px.png

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 17:53    Post subject:  

very cool rockedge

wanderer
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 350

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 18:05    Post subject:  

thats fantastic. id like to know what the url for the tor browser is-- i can find it myself, i suspect you already have it though. i know the tor-project site and thats the first place id look.

also if you modify code from mcorepup, you can use it (and reuse it) under any license you like. the cc0 i released my code under is the most permissive "license" (waiver) in the world. its gpl-compatible, after careful review from the fsf.

however if you write code that could be useful to add to mcorepup, and youre comfortable using the same license (cc0) then paste the snippet here, or on the corepup forum, or a code repo such as notabug or framagit (i will also accept code from other repos, those are two good examples.)

even if its just a trivial snippet to add a package, it will save me the trouble of redoing that part.

if its a custom thing for you, i will add it under the rockedge profile. if its adding a package, such as tor browser, i will add it under the torbrowser profile and put # rockedge next to it, to give you credit and make it easier for people to add it.

if i make changes to improve it, i will call it torbrowser and add # rockedge figosdev to give us both credit.

if people make changes to my code, i definitely prefer they take credit for their changes. i would rather people not change my code and then saddle me with the blame for it, thanks.

(your code could very well be better than mine, it goes both ways though. if i change your code i will try as a rule to take credit for the changes, so you dont get blamed for them.)



please note that cc0 is very permissive-- it does not require attribution, like public domain it is "no rights reserved."

so (for you or anybody else considering contributing to mcorepup) if i have to write the torbrowser package snippet myself, i am happy to do that.

and since cc0 is compatible with virtually everything, if people want to make a fork of mcorepup and work on that under their own favourite license, i have designed mkfigos and mcorepup for exactly that-- you are welcome to make it your own, putting your derivative under the mit/x11 license or gpl 2 or 3, or whatever.

that means that code can flow directly from mcorepup to your fork, but it cant flow from your fork to mcorepup. all your changes would be under gpl 3, for example.

some changes (such as altering a url) are trivial and cant be copyrighted.

im not trying to complicate this, by the way. this is how these things really work, whether i mention them or not. i didnt make them this way, i have (through choosing cc0) made them as trivial as they can possibly be made.

https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

Quote:
No Copyright

The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain by waiving all of his or her rights to the work worldwide under copyright law, including all related and neighboring rights, to the extent allowed by law.


thats not all it says, by the way.

before 1976, this wasnt necessary. so there are lots of coders who remember how this stuff worked before 1976, when the only way stuff got copyrighted was to register it.

now copyright is automatic, so if you want to make your work "no rights reserved" you have to be explicit about it.

in most places on earth this can be done with a simple text snippet. in finland where linus torvalds is from, an author would have to bring himself physical harm to get his work into the public domain-- which might not ever work in the united states, because of retroactive copyright term extensions!

cc0 is the best known way to resolve this, and possibly the only known way for a living author to put their work in the public domain everywhere in the world at once.

im not against mit/x11 and gpl licenses. i use gpl when i am required to, and i use mit/x11 license for some things, though rarely.

cc0 is closer to a stronger version of "wtfpl" and could be called "wtfpl, seriously though" if it wasnt called cc0.

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 845
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 19:43    Post subject:  

I inserted Tor Browser manually...download 32 bit Linux
extracted with tar -xz to /opt I modified the start_tor_browser.desktop to reflect the position of the Tor folder.
I modified the start_tor_browser script to stop checking if Tor is running under root (just in case I feel like running as root)
I would like to make a easy install tor.tcz ....

Note for Tor_Browser to connect to the network the system clock has to be correct.

I installed ntpclient.tcz using App and ran the command:
Code:
sudo ntpclient -s -c 1 -h us.pool.ntp.org

this syncs the time to UTC with the nearest USA NTP server. Now adjust the time zone to your area through the Control Panel
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 350

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 20:41    Post subject:  

rockedge wrote:
I inserted Tor Browser manually...download 32 bit Linux


was that a link? dont worry i can find the link, but if i did id just ask "is this the same one you used?" and you probably have it in your history.

Quote:
extracted with tar -xz to /opt I modified the start_tor_browser.desktop to reflect the position of the Tor folder.


cool, thats exactly how i would do it.

Quote:
I modified the start_tor_browser script to stop checking if Tor is running under root (just in case I feel like running as root)


i wont do that, and i will explain why.

Quote:
I would like to make a easy install tor.tcz ....


i get what youre saying and i get the modularity argument-- but i still have to ask, is tor not already included with tor browser?

Quote:
I installed ntpclient.tcz using App and ran the command:
Code:
sudo ntpclient -s -c 1 -h us.pool.ntp.org

this syncs the time to UTC with the nearest USA NTP server.


good idea. i met a tinfoil types once who thinks ntp is bad, but its what i would use too until the tor people (or more of the security community) recommend not using it.

why i wont personally modify the tor script to run as root:

tor is a security feature-- technically its better to think of it as a privacy feature, but for people who use it to avoid the chinese government for example, it is a security feature.

if the tor people think its wise to prevent the script running as root, so do i.

but if you would like to add that to your rockedge profile, i will gladly do so. profile-wise, thats as far as im willing to assist compromising the tor script.

i also dont think its a very dangerous compromise. for a few people (journalists and actvists in china) the stakes are high, so being careful about this is a good idea.

im not sure id recommend corepup to those people yet anyway. for the average tor user, running as root is probably (but again, are we sure?) ok.

i sympathise with, but dont entirely agree with the "everything as root" philosophy.

in fact, one of the features i want to add to mcorepup is the root desktop-- a feature of fig os that (while the gui runs things as user or "tc" by default) makes all desktop icons run as root like puppy.

so version 2.8 of fig os was like this:

[taskbar and menu runs things as user, so do keyboard shortcuts]

[icon opens term as root]

[icon opens leafpad as root]

[icon opens wicd-gtk as root]

[icon runs script as root to open browser as user]

i call this feature "root desktop," and as far as i know, no distribution other than fig os has ever had this feature.

puppy runs desktop as root, but for fig os it is just the icons on the desktop area, not the taskbar or icewm. "puppy uses jwm+rox" "i know, fig os uses icewm+the qt version of pcmanfm"



most users want puppy to run as root, so if i we figure out how make mcorepup do that we can make run-as-root a default profile.

so someone like me who didnt want that could remove "run-as-root" from profiles, and optionally add "root-desktop" if they like that as a compromise.

i really like using root desktop-- its most of the convenience of run-as-root but within the more traditional multiuser framework of gnu/linux.



new fig os user:

"how do i open the term?"

"click on the icon that says console."

"how do i become root?"

"the console is already root."

"what about gui stuff?"

"the desktop icons are already root too."

"so the leafpad icon?"

"runs leafpad as root, yes."

and yes, this works without sudo or gksudo. it gets its authentication handed directly from rc.local.

ive only made it work from debian-based distros, but it should be possible from corepup.

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 845
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 21:09    Post subject:  

this is the link to what I used :
https://www.torproject.org/dist/torbrowser/7.5.6/tor-browser-linux32-7.5.6_en-US.tar.xz

I am not running Tor as root. I am running Tor Browser as tc.....
I modified it because I tested it out in Puppy Linux. But on corepup as tc no need to.

Tor fails to connect to the network as the certificates will not be correct. this is caused by the the system clock and the timestamps it is creating. Probably the year was off...this is an old old machine not run for a while.
so I used the client to set the system clock for correct time and date....after that Tor will connect to the Tor onion skin.

I am just looking for a reason to construct a tcz..to learn the ins and outs
I know there is a Tor.tcz already but I am looking for a side gig to burn off the frustration of not getting PHP to run with Apache 2.4

I do a round about way...I open rox-filer as "superuser" (root) then launch from a terminal I start through rox or I modify the .desktop file to add sudo.
or I just sudo su and launch stuff..all depends on wat I am doing.
I like also to have sometimes 2 options to launch a program 1 icon starts as root the other tc.
I mess around deep enough in the system that unless I am root I can not do the operation ...sometimes.

Loading this manually helps me better understand, so when it comes time to achieve my goal of a zoneminder CCTV system based on corepup in the least amount of RAM possible.

I have Apache 2.4 running smoothly but I can not seem to get the PHP to parse. Still wading through where what is....similar but different than the ZM setups with LAMP stacks on Puppy or Debian / Ubuntu
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 845
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 21:24    Post subject:  

and I have no fear of running as root....but if I am being sly and clever...once in a while I do need to run not as root.....security against detection isn't the thing for me, but needing the rest of the machine hard to access when running different kind of servers live and accessible via the Internet is more of my concern... I rarely use Tor. "They" already know who I am all the way down to the DNA.

I think the main argument against running as root only applies to machines on networks...mostly external networks. Well made dangerous software doesn't depend on one running as root to work.

I think it's a drag to always forget to sudo this and sudo that
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 350

PostPosted: Thu 26 Jul 2018, 21:28    Post subject:  

make no mistake, i support what youre doing and the way youre doing it. the puppy community (as well as you and i) dont always "choose convention".

and i think if you dont self-identify as "expert" (wanderer doesnt, i dont, you might not either) then sometimes unconventional means are easier to do or to understand (and thats a bonus.)

im teaching someone how to write their own programming languages, and theyre redoing my work with more conventional means of parsing. i taught them how to do this, theyre actually becoming more conventional and more expert now. but i chose something less conventional.

my favourite thing about the puppy community, one of its strongest strengths, is that not everything follows convention here.

conventions are just "very good ideas in a specific context," theyre not always the laws of physics and theyre fun to break whenever its not a totally stupid idea (and sometimes even when it is.)

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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 350

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jul 2018, 08:27    Post subject:  

and xencore is no longer secret:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113981

corepuppified xenial-- basically corepup 7 plus most of puppy xenial. replaces palemoon with gnu icecat. gnu icecat is going to need some tidying to work properly-- disabling extensions makes it work like an actual browser, but some just need to be removed.

the sfs from puppy does get turned into a tcz file. the idea is to turn it into more than one tcz. the best way to do that will probably be to catalog whats in common with both tc and xenial.

it boots, you can install it and get the gui running, but this is still a proof of concept.

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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Sat 28 Jul 2018, 14:29    Post subject:  

hi nosystemdthanks (and rockedge)

xencore is truly awesome

the idea behind corepup

thanks for doing all the work

wanderer
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wanderer

Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Sun 29 Jul 2018, 00:49    Post subject:  

hi all

i note with great pleasure
that nosystemdthanks continues to forge ahead
with his mcorepup scripts
very sophisticated and powerful
essentially a woof-ce for corepup related projects

i continue to work on my manual build system for corepup

as soon as time allows i will make tc9 into corepups
as well as other tasks

a lot of fun

keep the faith

wanderer
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