Puppy has everything ... but a good manual

Message

Pelo · #16 Post by **Pelo** » Tue 19 Jul 2016, 18:26

'I believe that writers forget that solution seekers may not be at the same technical level as they are' i totally agree with you.
I think they don't care..
About manuals, some VIP's take the time to explain newbies how to do. Use their tutorials, to keep them active. I am guilty too, ASRI a french Puppy maker made tuto to explain his last educative ASRI EDU 310, and me and others zap it.
Same for Slaxen, the tuto is available, joined in the ISO.
European are used to make translations, because most of users don't speak english, and some even don't speak LInux.
Look at our specific forum : Nice and updated ASRI EDU forum
These forum are opened to english speaking people, however there french is official language. As english is here.
Spanish have the same, updated each time a new Pupjibaro is released, with description of applications, first install, and much care in slide shows.
They teach to newbies, not to linux experts.

poorguy · #17 Post by **poorguy** » Tue 19 Jul 2016, 22:02

Hey Pelo,

That's what I like about this forum is everything I have ever needed help with has been top notch no complaints.

It may not all have been solved but the help was right on.

I also agree that some manuals are top notch and do explain the needed info but there are a lot that don't.

I believe it just depends on the product and the person creating the manual.

The PoorGuy

Burn_IT · #18 Post by **Burn_IT** » Wed 20 Jul 2016, 13:38

One of the problems that manual writers have is that they do not have a specific audience to talk to so the manual has to be written for an imaginary general case.
I know how hard it is as I've had to do it in the past.

Two of the best ranges of help books I have seen are the
Idiot's Guide to XXXXX

and

XXXX for Dummies,

though neither have a Puppy specific book.

poorguy · #19 Post by **poorguy** » Wed 20 Jul 2016, 14:13

Hey Burn_IT,

Yep the "XXXX for Dummies" are very good IMO and I do have some of them and they are useful.

The PoorGuy

bigpup · #20 Post by **bigpup** » Fri 22 Jul 2016, 13:57

The best advice I can give is use the "HowTo" Section of this forum.

A Puppy manual is never going to happen and if it did. It would be outdated very shortly.

Most Puppy programs have their own help documentation built into the program as you use it.
When you get to a step that needs explaining, it tells you the info you need to know.

Other programs have help you can access by there menu. help

Rattlehead · #21 Post by **Rattlehead** » Mon 25 Jul 2016, 21:32

Pardon me, but... shouldn't the starting point be "what problem are we trying to solve"? And for whom? A manual is the best solution to which problem?

learnhow2code · #22 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 25 Jul 2016, 23:21

Pelo wrote:'I believe that writers forget that solution seekers may not be at the same technical level as they are' i totally agree with you.

sometimes. its not always easy to relate.

I think they don't care..

well you always say that pelo, but that doesnt mean its true.

I am guilty too,

thats good of you to say.

These forum are opened to english speaking people, however there french is official language. As english is here.

tres bon!

They teach to newbies, not to linux experts.

its difficult to do this without feedback.

writing for newbies is an art, and it has to be practiced over time. without newbie participation, people will simply never learn how to communicate with them.

that doesnt mean no one cares.

learnhow2code · #23 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 25 Jul 2016, 23:28

bigpup wrote:The best advice I can give is use the "HowTo" Section of this forum.

A Puppy manual is never going to happen and if it did. It would be outdated very shortly.

your advice is good, but there was a puppy manual, years ago . lobster put it together and it was extremely helpful. however, it was pretty much just cut and paste from places on the forum, and while it was pretty excellent (imo) it didnt take the time to attribute any of the things, or date them.

after that they moved to the wiki, and maintaining wikis tends to go on for weeks or months and then everyone gives up-- and lets it go stale. personally i think lobsters way was the best way, but a little "plagiarize me for a puppy manual on the forum!" notice next to posts would make it easier to put one together without proper attribution. or we could just provide the extra info-- thats probably the only way. if i did it, i would just link to the post its from on the forum.

another way to do it is to just provide credits on one page, but thats not going to be good enough for everyone.

again, im not saying its "better" one way or the other, its probably better to provide all necessary details. i am saying the alternative is easier, and someone did that here once.

smokey01 · #24 Post by **smokey01** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 03:17

See my signature for Puppy Help 101, it may help. Although a bit old still quite relevant.
http://smokey01.com/help/PH101-001.tar.gz

Burn_IT · #25 Post by **Burn_IT** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 10:24

Puppy is a community project.
Instead of complaining about a lack of manual, get your pen out! I'm sure there will be plenty of people to help correct any mistakes!!

bigpup · #26 Post by **bigpup** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 20:13

smokey01 I wish you could keep Puppy Help 101 going.

That was the best help for a new user.

Sylvander · #27 Post by **Sylvander** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 21:10

What I did was to make a "Puppy Linux" thread at the PC-Guide, and made a post->links each time I found something interesting/useful [at the Puppy forums?]

Here's the present last post in that thread.
Work backwards from this.

My idea was that it should be dynamic and evolving, not static.
Just like Puppy itself.

learnhow2code · #28 Post by **learnhow2code** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 21:36

Sylvander wrote:What I did was to make a "Puppy Linux" thread at the PC-Guide, and made a post->links each time I found something interesting/useful [at the Puppy forums?]

very cool.

Pelo · #29 Post by **Pelo** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 21:43

Puppy help 101 : spanish 'team' & ASRI edu have the same,
the difference is that there are uptdated at least for each new release of a distro. The distros are not individual ones, but part of a project including several versions,
The appearance is very important. In fact more than a tuto, it is a site web, managed by a team, decisions are collective,
Tuto is made before the public realease of the new version..
ASRI EDU is an association, Puppy linux was the system used until now. It seems they have changed for a Debian OS.
the same with SKAMILUX , who manage a facebook site to, which is not a repair shop, a lttle bit an help desk, but mainly an exposition of the catalog
The Toutou linux site was the same, but with only one or two persons, updates have been postponed to the future..
Tutorials must be updated, but attractive, to be used by people.

Take a look at their sites, they are 'professional'. and of course a forum is included, (FAQ) s-kami is member here, he will be happy to show the activity of the hungarian team.
shiba inu by Josep2424 Club south america (nilson Morales Josep2424, vicmz are active members)
And of course tutos are completed as videos
(instalar paquetes, install packages is shown as video)pets How-to, by americanos jump there !

learnhow2code · #30 Post by **learnhow2code** » Tue 26 Jul 2016, 22:17

Pelo wrote:Puppy help 101 : spanish 'team' & ASRI edu have the same,
the difference is that there are uptdated at least for each new release of a distro. The distros are not individual ones, but part of a project including several versions,
The appearance is very important. In fact more than a tuto, it is a site web, managed by a team, decisions are collective,

hi pelo. this is almost exactly how puppy worked 10 years ago. there is no longer that level of interest.

whats left from that effort is the puppy wiki.

i note that a lot of pages were deleted from the wiki since-- probably because they were so out of date or irrelevant that no one considered them important.

i can relate to arguments both for and against that. this forum illustrates the pros and cons of keeping old instructions just fine. perhaps we could translate these spanish manuals into english -- i doubt anyone is up to doing that for *every version* however.

april · #31 Post by **april** » Wed 27 Jul 2016, 09:16

Puppy is Linux

Linux manuals are a dime a dozen

So read them

Then all you need is to look and see how Puppy saves distro size and improves speed by streamlining the included programs and leaving out help manuals and making the user root .

Need anything else ? Go read your Linux manual.

Pelo · #32 Post by **Pelo** » Wed 27 Jul 2016, 11:31

list of manuals here (Musher0)

How-to search the forum for the beginners should be completed, Urgent. By administrators ( Users not allowed to change it)

puppyluvr · #33 Post by **puppyluvr** » Wed 27 Jul 2016, 18:14

Hello,
We tried, really we did.
But Puppy is diverse, and changes constantly.
As fast as you write a chapter, like my "How to connect to wireless" the info is outdated. Puppy needed something constantly updatable. Apparently someone created a Wiki. It seems to need contributor's.
Volunteers?

Pelo · #34 Post by **Pelo** » Thu 28 Jul 2016, 04:56

Each one tries to update manuals, but by creating his own, that is faster in a short time. But when a newbie connect to Puppy, he has manuals shown as soon his browser is launched. If each one modify the common manual, it will be no more work than doing his own.
When you add slacko to the list it would be easy to remove 'Cielo' which is not available for download. A least post a comment on the forum,
Puppy testing in progress. Screenshot. that puppy is nice, and will enjoy its passengers perhaps more than new ones, Personnaly, i am happy that these old but nice puppies remain at the top !
About wirelles, our national Toutou Linux explain how to set a modem very well, but nothing about WiFi dongles. Passengers, even Users are not allowed to add How-to.

Sailor Enceladus · #35 Post by **Sailor Enceladus** » Fri 05 Aug 2016, 23:56

What?!? You don't like the Help button on desktop and in the menu? I love the "How to get on the Internet" one!

Since it has no wi-fi section, I ripped this website and simplified it for fun. What do you think?

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Puppy has everything ... but a good manual

Same for Slaxen, the tuto is available, joined in the ISO.

Re: Same for Slaxen, the tuto is available, joined in the ISO.

Manual must be attractive .. and updated, of course

Re: Manual must be attractive .. and updated, of course

list of manuals here (Musher0)

This one is attractive, seen at first connect.