Debian Frugal [THREAD CLOSED]

[Belham]

Wait, what you guys are talking about?
To the best of my knowledge, neither Ubuntu, nor Debian do automatic updates by default. https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/servergui ... dates.html

Automatic Updates

The unattended-upgrades package can be used to automatically install updated packages, and can be configured to update all packages or just install security updates. First, install the package by entering the following in a terminal:

sudo apt-get install unattended-upgrades

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Autom ... ityUpdates Secondly, I personally am very skeptical about "save/persistence" options. If you feel the need to preserve the changes to your Debian/Ubuntu/Pup/Dog, please do yourself a favor - remaster! Let us promote and share the best possible practices. Why create additional layers of complexity (/unions/loops/whatever) and confuse us little puppians with totally unneeded and redundant procedures - don't we deserve better?

Let me get this straight? You want us users to "remaster" whatever puppy we are using every time we make a change to it, whether a much needed security update to, say, a browser, or openssl, or etc, etc, etc? How in the heck/he!! do us "users" have all these things saved for the next boot, if we don't use the "save/persistence" option on some of the Pups and their derivatives? If I am not mistaken, not every pup and/or derivative has an "overlay" function where everything you do is saved for the next reboot. To me, it sounds like a pure headache to have to remaster every time I am coming out of puppy. No, make that is sounds "jacka@@"-ish to do it. Sorry, anikin, but I cannot understand where you are coming from with your comment (apologies if I am misunderstanding something here).

I'd say 95% of pup users aren't fooling around like learnhow2code and rufwoof and others do. But what they do helps us continue to learn how puppy works. That is what Barry always wanted when he first did his puppy many, many moons ago.

[fredx181]

I grabbed this Devuan ISO, opened it up, created a DEVUAN directory in the root of my sda4 (hd0,3 in grub4dos speak) and copied the 'live' folder from the ISO to sda4 /DEVUAN/live

I like this one specially because of KDE3 (now called Trinity) and because of what the exegnu developers did with it, many programs in less than 700MB iso.

The options for save should be "persistent" rather than "persistence" on the kernel command line and the savefile or partition should be named/labeled "live-rw" (using the older live-boot v2)

EDIT: said the above too easily, only read about it to do it that way, but couldn't make it actually work (can't understand yet, maybe "persistence" boot parameter should be it, but not sure)

Belham,

Let me get this straight? You want us users to "remaster" whatever puppy we are using every time we make a change to it

Probably anikin didn't mean to say to remaster everytime after any small change, but only after making many changes you'd like to keep, e.g. install/uninstall lots of programs or e.g. changing complete desktop GUI .

Fred

[gcmartin]

I am late to this party. But, I have used persistence/persistent in the past.

Does use of the partition approach for persistence operate as a save-session same as the savefile that is referenced here. Further, for some of us, a save-session folder arrangement provides a better approach in understanding versus a loop-based savefile which consistently runs out of space.

Can persistence using a folder approach versus a "loop-file" approach be available or optional?

Because of the focus on savefile, is there something inherently wrong with a save-folder for persistence?

And lastly, could a persistence savefile be made into a persistence save-folder and that folder found and used at boot-time?

Curious. Seeking merely an understanding.

[rufwoof]

Hi gcmartin

The 'usual' is to have a save partition, more often called something (having a label) like live-rw, casper-rw, persistence ... depending upon the system being run. Debian at least has a option to use a file that's been created as a filesystem type alternative ... i.e. a savefile. Which is more convenient if you want to run multiple systems frugally as that can be in the same sub-directory as the main filesystem (squashfs). One partition for each system in contrast .... is no different to just doing a full install of each system into its own partition in many respects.

Not sure about a savefolder option. I've just tried creating a savefile with a savefolder sub-directory beneath where that savefile is located, with that savefolder having empty directories of etc, home, usr, lib .... etc, and then the savefile having relative symbolic links to those ... but when that savefile was used by Debian as a savefile, it didn't work (didn't preserve changes nor store anything in those sub directories). i.e. tried a savefile choice where the file is mounted as a filesystem, and where that filesystem sym links to local ext3 directories ... but didn't work. That would have been a relatively easy way to have a savefolder type choice, but apparently not a option ... unless I did something wrong or there is a alternative choice (I did notice that the savefile had a additional UNION folder created in it when active, so there may be other approaches that might perhaps work). I did also try booting using a persistence partition where the etc var usr .... etc folders were all sym links to folders within a sub-directory on another partition .... but that also didn't work.

As you say a savefolder is a nice choice, no issues with space running out, and more flexible than partition based saves. A savefolder would be the ideal IMO.

[fredx181]

Comment about what I wrote in previous post about Exegnu:

EDIT: said the above too easily, only read about it to do it that way, but couldn't make it actually work (can't understand yet, maybe "persistence" boot parameter should be it, but not sure)

Indeed as I thought later: for Exegnu it's just the same as Debian Jessie :
"persistence" parameter on kernel boot line and savefile/partition named/labeled "persistence"
Strange thing is that a wallpaper change isn't applied after reboot but other things I did were changed/added properly; e.g. installing new programs,adding icons to desktop.

Fred

[rufwoof]

My Libre Calc sheet names were showing very small text. Looks to be quite a common problem and not a Libre bug, but associated to the choice of theme/gtk/qt

I fixed it by replacing ~/.config/Trolltech.conf with a copy from my DebianDog that contains (in micro text (highlight and copy/paste into a text editor that has word wrap turned off)) :

[Qt]
font="FreeSans,10,-1,5,63,0,0,0,0,0"
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Palette\active=#221f1e, #dfdcd9, #fdfdfd, #e2dfdd, #6a6663, #b3aba7, #1f1c1b, #ffffff, #221f1e, #ffffff, #d6d2d0, #3d3b39, #43ace8, #ffffff, #0057ae, #644a9b, #f8f7f6, #000000, #181513, #e7fdff
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Palette\disabled=#908d8b, #d6d2ce, #f2f1f1, #d9d5d3, #65615f, #aba4a0, #a9a7a7, #ffffff, #969391, #f4f4f4, #cdc8c6, #3c3a38, #cdc8c6, #908d8b, #97bcdf, #c1b6d7, #eeece9, #000000, #181513, #e7fdff
KWinPalette\activeBackground=#30aee8
KWinPalette\activeBlend=#ffffff
KWinPalette\activeForeground=#ffffff
KWinPalette\frame=#d6d2d0
KWinPalette\activeTitleBtnBg=#d6d2d0
KWinPalette\inactiveBackground=#e0dfde
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KWinPalette\inactiveForeground=#4b4743
KWinPalette\inactiveFrame=#d6d2d0
KWinPalette\inactiveTitleBtnBg=#d6d2d0
KDE\contrast=7
GUIEffects=none

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usr\lib\kde4\kurisearchfilter.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-12-10T21:45:57
usr\lib\kde4\localdomainurifilter.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-12-10T21:45:56
usr\lib\kde4\fixhosturifilter.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-12-10T21:46:02
usr\lib\kde4\kuriikwsfilter.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-12-10T21:45:57
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_konsolesessions.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:07
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_charrunner.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:07
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_recentdocuments.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_nepomuksearchrunner.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_placesrunner.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_services.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\plasma_runner_datetime.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:08
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_audioplayercontrol.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:07
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_windows.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_solid.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_shell.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_activities.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:44
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_katesessions.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:08
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_bookmarksrunner.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:44
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_dictionary.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:01
usr\lib\kde4\plasma_engine_dict.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:55
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_sessions.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_browserhistory.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:08
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_calculatorrunner.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_kopete.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:08
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_powerdevil.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:43
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_plasma-desktop.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:15:37
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_konquerorsessions.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:07
usr\lib\kde4\krunner_converter.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-22T11:27:07
usr\lib\kde4\classic_mode.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:16:12
usr\lib\kde4\icon_mode.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:16:12
usr\lib\kde4\kcm_style.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:16:12
usr\lib\kde4\plugins\styles\oxygen.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-11-07T12:16:14
usr\lib\kde4\kcm_cgc.so=40802, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2013-05-23T19:48:57
usr\lib\kde4\kactivitymanagerd_fileitem_linking_plugin.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-07-31T18:55:26
usr\lib\kde4\plugins\phonon_platform\kde.so=40806, 0, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-12-10T21:46:03
usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\phonon_backend\phonon_vlc.so=40806, 1, i386 linux g++-4 full-config, 2014-10-01T06:19:37

[Qt%20Factory%20Cache%204.8]
com.trolltech.Qt.QInputContextFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\inputmethods\libqimsw-multi.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, imsw-multi
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqgif.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, gif
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqico.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, ico
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqjpeg.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, jpeg, jpg
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqmng.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, mng
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqtga.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, tga
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqtiff.so=2015-05-03T23:36:28, tiff, tif
com.trolltech.Qt.QBearerEngineFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\bearer\libqconnmanbearer.so=2015-05-03T23:36:31, connman
com.trolltech.Qt.QBearerEngineFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\bearer\libqgenericbearer.so=2015-05-03T23:36:32, generic
com.trolltech.Qt.QBearerEngineFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\bearer\libqnmbearer.so=2015-05-03T23:36:31, networkmanager
com.trolltech.Qt.QIconEngineFactoryInterfaceV2%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\iconengines\libqsvgicon.so=2015-05-03T23:36:36, svg, svgz, svg.gz
com.trolltech.Qt.QIconEngineFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\iconengines\libqsvgicon.so=2015-05-03T23:36:36
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\imageformats\libqsvg.so=2015-05-03T23:36:36, svg, svgz
com.nokia.qt.QGuiPlatformPluginInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\gui_platform\libkde.so=2014-11-07T12:15:51, kde
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_dds.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, dds
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_eps.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, eps, EPS, epsi, EPSI, epsf, EPSF
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_exr.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, exr, EXR
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_jp2.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, jp2
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_pcx.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, pcx, PCX
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_pic.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, pic
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_psd.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, psd, PSD
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_ras.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, ras, RAS
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_rgb.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, rgb, RGB, rgba, RGBA, bw, BW, sgi, SGI
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_tga.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, tga, TGA
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_webp.so=2014-12-10T21:46:04, webp
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_xcf.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, xcf, XCF
com.trolltech.Qt.QImageIOHandlerFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\imageformats\kimg_xview.so=2015-01-27T22:23:24, xv
com.trolltech.Qt.QSqlDriverFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\sqldrivers\libqsqlite.so=2015-05-03T23:36:35, QSQLITE
com.trolltech.Qt.QSqlDriverFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\i386-linux-gnu\qt4\plugins\sqldrivers\libqsqlmysql.so=2015-05-03T23:36:35, QMYSQL3, QMYSQL
com.trolltech.Qt.QStyleFactoryInterface%3A\usr\lib\kde4\plugins\styles\oxygen.so=2014-11-07T12:16:14, Oxygen


EDIT : Using DebianDog Trolltech.conf caused some change desktop theme problems. Restoring the original Trolltech.conf .... it looks like its the [qt] section style label. Changing that to

style=GTK+

after changing to oxygen desktop theme corrects the libre calc small sheet name (and scrollbar) issue. So looks like something to do with the oxygen theme configuration that causes the small Libre scrollbars and small sheet text problems.

[anikin]

... Let me get this straight? You want us users to "remaster" whatever puppy we are using every time we make a change to it, whether a much needed security update to, say, a browser, or openssl, or etc, etc, etc? How in the heck/he!! do us "users" have all these things saved for the next boot, if we don't use the "save/persistence" option on some of the Pups and their derivatives? If I am not mistaken, not every pup and/or derivative has an "overlay" function where everything you do is saved for the next reboot. To me, it sounds like a pure headache to have to remaster every time I am coming out of puppy. No, make that is sounds "jacka@@"-ish to do it. Sorry, anikin, but I cannot understand where you are coming from with your comment (apologies if I am misunderstanding something here).

I'd say 95% of pup users aren't fooling around like learnhow2code and rufwoof and others do. But what they do helps us continue to learn how puppy works. That is what Barry always wanted when he first did his puppy many, many moons ago.

Belham,

No need to over-dramatize the situation. The devil isn't as black as it may look. Remastering is an easy and straightforward procedure. Once you embrace the concept, you'll forget about the save/persistent option. Just do it yourself! It may take a bit of planning though: customize your dog/pup - purge the bloat, install your programs, etc., and run the remaster script. All your changes will have been saved in the most safest, cleanest and natural way. No overlays, no loops, no piles of crap. Just pure joy of running an indestructible/unsinkable, "always fresh" system. How often you need to remaster, of course will depend on your mileage. I normally do it every time a new version of Palemoon is released.

@rufwoof,

Looks like some nice config.
Can you please, repost it as an attachment?

[rufwoof]

@rufwoof,

Looks like some nice config.
Can you please, repost it as an attachment?

I've since re-edited that posting as the Trolltech.conf from DebianDog Jessie prevents Debian Jessie from changing themes via System Settings. Digging deeper it looks like the cause of the small Libre Calc scrollbars and sheet names is down to the oxygen theme. So not much use in posting the content of that Trolltech.conf here.

As the oxygen theme is one of the most consistent across qt, gtk and kde many are likely to opt for that theme. Manually editing the ~/.config/Trolltech.conf to change the [qt] sections style label to style=GTK+ after using System Settings to switch to the oxygen theme is a easy fix until the oxygen theme providers perhaps get around to officially fixing the oxygen theme themselves

Was going to report it as a bug, but KDE are the developers and to report a bug with them you need to set up a account and there's a warning that whatever email account you use will be made public so you could get spam (they suggest using a secondary email account) .... I just (virtually) turned and walked away.

[anikin]

I've been wanting to share this with someone for a long time. Debian Dog and mintpup (probably all the versions) have a little security flaw. There's a file named "machine-id" located at /var/lib/dbus (and maybe in some cases) at /etc. The presence of this file is a security threat, because it identifies the machine on the network and it simply shouldn't be there. Tor browser is believed to access and read this file for some weird reason.

Me thinks a couple more "rm" lines need to be added to the "remasterdog" script:

Code: Select all

echo "Cleaning..."
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/var/lib/alsa/asound.state
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/root/.bash_history
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/root/.xsession-errors
rm -rf /tmp/work-dir/root/.cache
rm -rf /tmp/work-dir/root/.thumbnails
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/etc/blkid-cache
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/etc/resolv.conf
rm -rf /tmp/work-dir/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent*
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.eth0.leases
rm -f /tmp/work-dir/var/lib/dhcpcd/*.lease

This file is also present in all the official Debian/Ubuntu live CDs. Future releases will not have it, as the latest live-build automatically removes it.

edit
Read some more here: https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/7100

[learnhow2code]

Future releases will not have it, as the latest live-build automatically removes it.

slightly ot, but curious how/why you have that info at your fingertips. are you a developer of live-build or related projects, or (like me) an avid follower of such things?

[anikin]

... slightly ot, but curious how/why you have that info at your fingertips. are you a developer of live-build or related projects, or (like me) an avid follower of such things?

I was researching something unrelated and came across that info (I edited my post and added a link, some good reading there). I'm not a developer - not by a long shot. Unlike yourself, I will never learnhow2code. Just an info junkie here with an unhealthy interest in Debian-live.

[learnhow2code]

Unlike yourself, I will never learnhow2code

several people are eager to say this to me. while its subjective, i strongly suspect that your level of "code literacy" is already above what i consider "important for the average user..." i.e. anything beyond what youre doing now would be "extra." dont know if that clarifies anything, but i hope so. it is actually the literacy aspect that i put forward generally.

Just an info junkie here with an unhealthy interest in Debian-live.

well i appreciate it. its barely getting back on topic, but your posts on debian are helpful to me personally, and appreciated, fwiw.

[Belham]

Unlike yourself, I will never learnhow2code

several people are eager to say this to me. while its subjective, i strongly suspect that your level of "code literacy" is already above what i consider "important for the average user..." i.e. anything beyond what youre doing now would be "extra." dont know if that clarifies anything, but i hope so. it is actually the literacy aspect that i put forward generally.

Just an info junkie here with an unhealthy interest in Debian-live.

well i appreciate it. its barely getting back on topic, but your posts on debian are helpful to me personally, and appreciated, fwiw.

Guys,
I remember late a.m. 40-yrs-ago-beat-your-head-against-the-wall sessions coding Fortran, and then on top of that wondering if we even got all the hole punch card stacks in correct order. I think back about that now & then, and I can definitely say from tops of these old lungs---I WILL NEVER LEARN 2 CODE (w/ the added proviso -[/b] "again")[/b] Cobol & C+ was like slurping jello shots compared to fortran. Developers of fortran I hope are burning in some coders hell somehwere,

[learnhow2code]

I remember late a.m. 40-yrs-ago-beat-your-head-against-the-wall sessions coding Fortran, and then on top of that wondering if we even got all the hole punch card stacks in correct order.

thats data entry you were having trouble with. you may have trouble with code, but youre actually learning, youre (again) doing exactly what i encourage.

if you treat "learning" as some fixed thing, which includes things you dont know-- then perhaps no one really ever learns to code. i love that this sig inspires so many posts, but i wish people would post somewhere that wasnt an open challenge to make an ot response--

why? i know i will get blamed for people talking to me/about me, or responding to them. the sig is not meant to be so controversial, it isnt even a new idea.

[Belham]

I remember late a.m. 40-yrs-ago-beat-your-head-against-the-wall sessions coding Fortran, and then on top of that wondering if we even got all the hole punch card stacks in correct order.

thats data entry you were having trouble with. you may have trouble with code, but youre actually learning, youre (again) doing exactly what i encourage.

if you treat "learning" as some fixed thing, which includes things you dont know-- then perhaps no one really ever learns to code. i love that this sig inspires so many posts, but i wish people would post somewhere that wasnt an open challenge to make an ot response--

why? i know i will get blamed for people talking to me/about me, or responding to them. the sig is not meant to be so controversial, it isnt even a new idea.

Ummm, huh, what, data-entry, lol? I guess my attempt at humor completely missed the mark. You're much missing the jist of the post. There are very few people I know who can still sit down and program in fortran, then jump easily up to & thru Cobol and C+, even flirting with OOP. Some of us dinosaurs are still around, and you're responding to one. I was trying to make you see the silliness of some of your posts to other posters on here. But, alas, I know when pendantic preachers get really wound up, then can't see the hash for the mark. Coding is not a dirty word, never was, never has been, and never will be. It's those who tell others that it isn't is the ones who make it hard on all. Of course, this will probably be misunderstood too...or will it? Encouragement never takes the form of directness when it comes to any type of coding in this world.

[rufwoof]

Just tried the same frugal type install for Debian Gnome.

Working well. Fonts and layout can be more or less run straight off. Never used it before myself and at first I was blank as what to do, but within a short while came to quite like its interface. Once you get used to working a different way to 'usual' its quick and easy, with a relatively basic/clean interface.

[Belham]

Just tried the same frugal type install for Debian Gnome.

Working well. Fonts and layout can be more or less run straight off. Never used it before myself and at first I was blank as what to do, but within a short while came to quite like its interface. Once you get used to working a different way to 'usual' its quick and easy, with a relatively basic/clean interface.

rufwoof,

From your pic I thought I was looking at my desktop daily driver. (I use the full-on debian-jessie.8.5). Bet yours pops stuff open way faster though



P.s. I am going to have to pick your brain about symlinking (or point me to easy examples you know off the top of your head). It seems so easy intuitively, but I am still doing something goofy when wanting to get all my pups on one drive (all partitioned and running great booting via grub4dos) to use the huge partition on that drive ( that I created) for setting up a home/data directory. I copied everything to that huge partition in terms of my data/home settings, set them up in folders just as if they were in the pups, then created symlinks to those folders and dragged the symlinks back to the respective pups. Aren't symlinks draggable nowadays, or should I do all of this via the terminal, mkrdir, and all, then symlink stuff? Sorry for asking, I know you're probably rolling your eyes. Just tell me" yes, terminal you idiot," or no, you can drag & drop stuff, just do this & that. At least I got the pups saving to this big partition in the correct folders, but what am i screwing up with symlinking in terms of the pups always knowing they are there after each boot??

[learnhow2code]

Ummm, huh, what, data-entry, lol? I guess my attempt at humor completely missed the mark. You're much missing the jist of the post. There are very few people I know who can still sit down and program in fortran, then jump easily up to & thru Cobol and C+, even flirting with OOP. Some of us dinosaurs are still around, and you're responding to one. I was trying to make you see the silliness of some of your posts to other posters on here. But, alas, I know when pendantic preachers get really wound up, then can't see the hash for the mark. Coding is not a dirty word, never was, never has been, and never will be. It's those who tell others that it isn't is the ones who make it hard on all. Of course, this will probably be misunderstood too...or will it? Encouragement never takes the form of directness when it comes to any type of coding in this world.

i dunno why youre giving me a hard time because i took you for your word, and that created a misunderstanding. thats pretty common online, but you extrapolated a whole lot of stuff from it that isnt giving me a whole lot of credit. in any case, thanks for the advice (your 2c) i guess. one thing youre definitely right about is that online requires a different tack-- because its so darned easy to be misunderstood. but irl i dont encounter this kind of flak about it-- people dont take the idea personally, they just ask you to make a case for it. imagine if conversing online was so easy, where simply having a different opinion doesnt require a bunch of insults in the counterpoint. no worries-- everyones got their reasons.

[dancytron]

*snip*

Aren't symlinks draggable nowadays, or should I do all of this via the terminal, mkrdir, and all, then symlink stuff?
*snip*

The are draggable and droppable in Rox Filer, in the other file managers not so much.

Drag them from window to window and when the box pops up that says "Copy, Move, Relative Link, Absolute Link" or something similar, choose "Relative Link".

edit: You want to drag it from /mnt/home or somewhere else within the file system. Not from /mnt/sda1, even if that is the same place. I'm 99% sure that's right.

[gcmartin]

And the formatted filesystem must be a filesystem (aka Linux) that respects Linux links, security, etc. For example, EXT2/EXT3/EXT4/F2FS/etc.