Phasing out PETs

Message

Pelo · #46 Post by **Pelo** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 05:28

Try Xenialpup, there are some new applications provided in the packages PPM. I will do a pet ! God Pupsaves Puppy, don't worry

vokoscreen_2.4.0-2.pet: 1008 K. Just used gnewpet. Easy because no dependencies. We are not bad people here to worry our Puppy-builders. When we complain , it is a preventive attitude.

s243a · #47 Post by **s243a** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 05:47

learnhow2code wrote:
Pelo wrote:learnhow2code , they want to transfer making the pets to users
no... users have always been able to make pets. if they want to. but users never had to make pets.

I've made a few pets. The tricking thing is when the make process depends on your target build locations.

This makes it a bit more complicated then simply building to tmp and then using dir2pet.

What I did in this case was first build to tmp, copy the list of files, then build to my real system. From the list of files copy the files from my real system to tmp and then using dir2pet.

This was a bit tricky. I'm sure more experienced users and or developers have better approaches.

I think fatdog64 has a sandbox approach but I haven't learned how it works yet.

Another way that I built pets is via the puppy package manager. The reason was so that I could install the pets from the command line using petget.

Having a package system like pets makes it easy for users and developers to share what they compiled. Not everyone will be working with the main repository.

learnhow2code · #48 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 05:49

s243a wrote:Having a package system like pets makes it easy for users and developers to share what they compiled. Not everyone will be working with the main repository.

no argument there.

Sailor Enceladus wrote:If Xenialpup stays at 7.0.7 forever and Slacko 14.2 never arrives I guess we will have to do some things ourselves to keep puppy going.

some people want to make a script for automating puppy on top of existing distros. this would be a huge step forward for puppy.

in the past, there wasnt much reason to go to that kind of trouble-- for puppy, or for debian. these days, there are things people want to do with puppy and debian (separately, but in this case together) that really warrant the effort.

the script could probably be adapted for ubuntu, or someone is already thinking about that. would you have to run the script? no, thats not the point-- the point is it would bring you new puppies from the developers a lot faster and more reliably.

distro factories and automated forks/respins are becoming a thing-- think of it as puppy-remaster-for-ubuntu. still at the idea stage, and definitely more than im up to-- distro generators are projects for people with at least a little distro-maintaining experience.

Moose On The Loose · Mon 11 Jul 2016, 14:35

s243a wrote:
[...]

Having a package system like pets makes it easy for users and developers to share what they compiled. Not everyone will be working with the main repository.

I used this method to give others Kicad for puppy 528. When/if the PPM goes away I can see a big mess of people basically reproducing it in various forms in an attempt to make things as easy as the PET system makes things. Basically the PPM system is on the long list of things I consider not broken and thus don't need fixing.

jlst · #50 Post by **jlst** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 15:02

starhawk · #51 Post by **starhawk** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 15:18

Pelo's kind of a pain in the rear wherever he is, I think.

Must be real fun at parties...

learnhow2code · #52 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 15:59

starhawk wrote:Pelo's kind of a pain in the rear wherever he is, I think.

hes kind of going around and telling everyone that if he has a concern or if something isnt working for him, it doesnt work for anyone and its finally the end of puppy.

i used to have some concerns about puppy, but it isnt any worse now than it was 10 years ago.

do you know how much work (and common sense? an uncommon amount...) it takes to keep a distro 100% (or more) as good as the baseline for 10 years? that counts out the vast majority of good distros.

say what you will about puppy, but people do a very good job of keeping it at the level of quality its known for. i would say its even improved. even the community around it has improved, and some of the older puppy fans are still on the forum.

starhawk · #53 Post by **starhawk** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 16:18

I agree

I hope when I get old I'm not as cantankerous as Pelo seems to be... grump grumble grump grump.

Pelo, get a life, will you?!

learnhow2code · #54 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 16:54

starhawk wrote:Pelo, get a life, will you?!

theres an opportunity here, to make new faq for people concerned with puppy-related issues. because although pelo is over the top about it, i dont think any of his concerns are of ZERO relevance/importance (perhaps close to zero.) some people (french speakers?) even seem to think he has a point.

the worst way to write an faq is to use it to just dismiss concerns. that just takes people who have concerns they feel (rightly or wrongly) are important, and tells them "you dont matter, your pov is stupid." better to not write an faq at all if thats the way its going to be done.

but the opportunity is to address such "common" (or at least repeated) concerns in one location, where you can point to them and go "yes, thats a good question: heres what we have to say... what can/cant be done about that."

it may not be possible to reach one stubborn person, but it may be possible to have one-stop reassurance/solutions for anyone that puts too much stock in the naysaying. i dunno, there are pros/cons to such a project but i think its in the nature of faq pages. (yes, puppy has a couple already. this one would be sort of specialized. i dont think the basic faqs do or need to address much of this stuff about where puppy is going, community quality assurance, etc. but it would be lovely to have one to point to for that.)

starhawk · #55 Post by **starhawk** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 17:10

You have a good point.

Also, I didn't really want/mean to turn this into an "everybody hate on Pelo" thread.

Unfortunately, only the devs (micko and philb) can really answer a lot of the questions that'd be in that FAQ.

learnhow2code · #56 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 17:32

starhawk wrote:Also, I didn't really want/mean to turn this into an "everybody hate on Pelo" thread.

yeah, im not interested in that aspect of it anyway. hes an extreme version of the innocent sort of person that might have a question or concern.

Unfortunately, only the devs (micko and philb) can really answer a lot of the questions that'd be in that FAQ.

im not sure thats true. i think quite a few of us could contribute to it. when i have these "pie in the sky" ideas and look for people to collaborate with, im not necessarily looking for anyone to put in as much effort as i did just to bring up the idea.

one answer, or one suggestion for an entry, is the most anyone would need to add-- and only if they felt it important to do so. the most people would need to agree on would probably be where to put it on the forum.

amigo · #57 Post by **amigo** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 18:01

The idea of phasing out packages is absurd. The basic unit of software is The Package. Of course, the real guts of that package is then the list of objects included -and the all-important rational, canonical naming and versioning of the package. If the distro includes the idea of 'resolving dependencies', then the package must also include all the information necessary to identify and locate those dependencies.

Trying to build a flexible and versatile distribution or even an appliance while abandoning the defining Unit of software is fatally flawed. A package for everything and everything in a package. Then, simply defining various lists of packages to include, lets you easily create a just-server(just-ftp, just-hhtp etc.) a slim, minimal, TUI-only, full-blown-all-codecs or whatever appliance or distro. The trick, of course, is how do you define the word 'minimal' -I'll give you hint- it's probably smaller than you think.

Can you image Android or iOS without apps -which is just another word for a package? The reason they have had such success with developers is because of those packages -and, importantly, the rest of the software delivery system. What I'm saying is that the package format, the package delivery system(repos) and the software for package installation and upgrades has to be all thought out together. The software installer should not be stretched into a distro-builder. The software installer interface should be able to be used by overlying programs, like scripts which assemble ISO's or flashable images, etc. The software installer should be 100% usable from the command-line. GUI interfaces can then easily use the CLI functionality, just as any product assembler script.

starhawk · #58 Post by **starhawk** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 18:07

amigo, did you read the whole thread?

Pelo · #59 Post by **Pelo** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 18:16

in conclude, we will fight for pets against the administration, wont'we ?
"Somewhere deeply hidden in the puppy blog,
is Micko's proposal to eventually get rid of PETs
among other changes for future distro designs.

This would be a shame, as particularly OscarTalks
Index of PETs is a useful source of add-on apps.
eg. I notice he always keeps Flash-plugin versions bang up to date. "
Rodney Byne , we agree with you, as far as i understand english answers.
Barry Kauler asked help to collect all pets here and there, that was the good way to get our speedy distro more and more popular at home, sweet home of our Puppy Linux passengers, even if they don't speak English better than you could speak french !

starhawk · #60 Post by **starhawk** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 18:57

@ Pelo --

learnhow2code · #61 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 20:14

Pelo wrote:Somewhere deeply hidden in the puppy blog, is Micko's proposal to eventually get rid of PETs

nothing is deeply hidden in the puppy blog anymore... now that we are on to his evil plans, we can build an army and storm the castle by night. this monster will not prevail!

viva la puppy!

viva la dot-pets!

onward, men, to blog castle!

This is madness!

THIS IS PUPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jlst · #62 Post by **jlst** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 20:29

Sailor Enceladus · #63 Post by **Sailor Enceladus** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 20:37

In a bizarre turn of events, Pelo actually gets angry about someone having issues with puppy here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=912344#912344

learnhow2code · #64 Post by **learnhow2code** » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 21:03

jlst wrote:I don't think this thread should be closed.. it should be deleted.

it should be renamed to: "urban legend: .pets are being abandoned"

Pelo · #65 Post by **Pelo** » Tue 12 Jul 2016, 16:15

Let the machine do

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Phasing out PETs

I will do a pet !

Re: they want to transfer making the pets to users

Re: they want to transfer making the pets to users

Re: they want to transfer making the pets to users

Re: they want to transfer making the pets to users

Everybody here want to keep pet system !

Re: Everybody here want to keep pet system !

Let the machine do