Precise Puppy 5.7.1

Booting, installing, newbie
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Golan
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Precise Puppy 5.7.1

#1 Post by Golan »

Hello folks,

I have precise Puppy 5.7.1 installed on a Dell 910 from several years ago, it works fine and with the extended battery is great for taking on trips.

That said it's only used for browsing, email and taking short notes so nothing too stressing or sensitive like baking, my question is does this need updating?

Linux Mint on my desktop has gone through several releases over the same time period with regular updates via manager.

Searching for a later version takes you back to the above with many links not working, I assume this distro has now been superseded by something else - if this is still safe to use security wise I'll stick with it, alternatively if someone could suggest a suitable replacement that would be great.

Thank you

darry19662018
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#2 Post by darry19662018 »

Puppy Linux Wiki: [url]http://wikka.puppylinux.com/HomePage[/url]

[url]https://freemedia.neocities.org/[/url]

Golan
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#3 Post by Golan »

Thanks for the welcome and speedy reply.

I looked at a couple of those threads before but screen shots looked different to my existing desktop, very happy with features and performance but just worried its so out of date browser security may not be as good as it could be.

I forgot to mention, installed Chromium from the library.

It took a few attempts to get 5.7.1 installed originally with a fair bit of tinkering to boot-up/grub sequence s - if this is still okay to use will stick with it .

Thanks again

s243a
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#4 Post by s243a »

darry19662018 wrote:Welcome to the community.
If you want a more up to date version there are several options..

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115692
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115397
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112300
While those are probably all good recommendations I believe that they are Slackware based. For more recent versions of precise we have:

- Precise-light by JRB orginal post last updated Sat 06 Apr 2019, 10:40

- ~572, p575, and p57577: three spins/updates of Precise 5.7.1 Original Post Last edited by Puppus Dogfellow on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 22:11; edited 35 times in total

- Puli 3.8.3 bark 6, released Nov 2014
Original post Last edited by gjuhasz on Thu 06 Nov 2014, 14:58; edited 62 times in total
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Mike Walsh
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#5 Post by Mike Walsh »

Hallo, Golan. And a belated Image to 'the kennels'.

Nowt wrong with Precise. As with any Puppy, the browser is the main bone of contention; this is always the weakest link.

With regard to browser security; there are quite a few modern, up-to-date versions of current, Mozilla-based browsers that will run on Precise.....it's one of my oldest Puppies, and I use it as the main OS on a Dell lappie from 2002, an original (though heavily upgraded) Inspiron 1100.

Chromium-based browsers, I'm afraid, are a 'no-no', if you want a modern version. They tend to want so much more in the way of newer libs, etc.....including the glibc itself, round which the entire Puppy is based.

So, if you want a decent, up-to-date browser, you'll have to go Mozilla, I'm afraid. I'll list what's available:-

--------------------------------------------------

Palemoon 28.6.1
Firefox Quantum
Firefox 68esr
SeaMonkey 2.4.6

These are all available as 'portable installs', i.e., you can run them from outside Puppy-space. You can even run them from a flash drive. With the exception of Firefox-Quantum, assembled by Fredx181, these have all been assembled by me, and basically follow the same format. They're launched by a script within the browser directory, which, at first run, creates a sub-directory called 'profile', and then creates the profile itself within that. On second and subsequent runs, the launcher script will always use the 'internal' profile.....this is why they can run from removable media, since it's completely self-contained.

The launcher script can be dragged to the desktop, and used as a launcher for the browser, and tarted-up with an icon if desired.

Fred has modified FF-Quantum so that you now download a script, which when run will download & assemble the portable-browser. Mine are built the old-fashioned way!

You can find them at the following links:-

------------------------------------------------------

Firefox-Quantum portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112376

-------------------------------------------------------

Firefox68esr portable (this has only recently been released):-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 82#1033182

-------------------------------------------------------

Palemoon-portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115119

This will auto-update to the current 28.6.1 within the first run or two; Moonchild Productions are building the 28-series with auto-update, as opposed to the manual update that was previously required.

-------------------------------------------------------

Seamonkey 2.4.6-portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115876

Not a personal favourite of mine (I'm a total Palemoon convert now, given the age of my hardware, although modern Chromium-based stuff will run - very early, first-gen 64-bit, y'see). I know a lot of the older Puppians still like it because it does away with the need to run a separate email client.

Talking of which, there's also:-

---------------------------------------------------

Thunderbird 60 portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115447

....if you like Thunderbird.

-------------------------------------------------------

IF you use either SeaMonkey or Palemoon, they will run straight off.

For FF-Quantum, FF68esr or Thunderbird, a couple of modifications are required in Precise. Two sym-links need to be established in /lib. GTK-3 is also required; FF-Quantum and FF-ESR both need it installing, Thunderbird has it 'built-in' to the portable. Lib-dbus also needs updating.

A GTK-3.0 package for Precise can be found here:-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EPHPMJ ... sp=sharing

Just click to install.

An upgraded lib-dbus (from Debian Wheezy or Jessie, I forget which - courtesy of watchdog) can be found here:-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PETyBh ... sp=sharing

-------------------------------------

In the terminal, run the following two commands:-

Code: Select all

ln -s /lib/libcrypto.so.1.0.0 /lib/libcrypto.so.1
....and

Code: Select all

ln -s /lib/libssl.so.1.0.0 /lib/libssl.so.1
----------------------------------------------------------

The above mods will enable running the very newest Mozilla browsers in Precise 5.7.1. I like Precise; it's fast becoming accepted as the 'go-to' Puppy for older hardware, and it's a very good little OS to keep old clunkers still useful. It's fairly light, and reasonably responsive....and is capable of running a fair bit of quite modern software.

Hope that little lot helps!


Mike. :wink:

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#6 Post by darry19662018 »

Yep run with those recommendations my apologies on those links didn't read your post properly.

Darren
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Golan
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#7 Post by Golan »

Thanks so much for the suggestions, especially Mike putting together such a detailed list.

I'll work my way through the links and post back outcome, in summary it sounds like the OS is fine despite being quite old, switching to Firefox is easy as i use it with Mint - just need final push to import bookmarks and enable sync from Chrome.

Out of interest, can you install packages via flat packs for example GNUCash which is available on Mint (v17.1).

Cheers,

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mikeslr
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#8 Post by mikeslr »

Hi Golan,

A problem with old puppies is that their infrastructure uses old libraries and you can only have one 'internal' version of some libraries, such as glibc. The web-browsers fredx181 and Mike Walsh built include their own glibc libraries avoiding that conflict.

Absent such special builds, you have to look for old versions of old applications. These search engines can help, https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643 ... #gsc.tab=0 and http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html. Which is how I found this thread about GNUCash, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 211#858211

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#9 Post by s243a »

mikeslr wrote:Hi Golan,

A problem with old puppies is that their infrastructure uses old libraries and you can only have one 'internal' version of some libraries, such as glibc. The web-browsers fredx181 and Mike Walsh built include their own glibc libraries avoiding that conflict.

Absent such special builds, you have to look for old versions of old applications. These search engines can help, https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643 ... #gsc.tab=0 and http://puppylinux.us/psearch.html. Which is how I found this thread about GNUCash, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 211#858211
Mike Walsh has also done a cool trick with a chrooted Iron browser:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 76#1035276
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Mike Walsh
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#10 Post by Mike Walsh »

s243a wrote:Mike Walsh has also done a cool trick with a chrooted Iron browser:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 76#1035276
To clarify, yes; I've assembled the SFS package for running Iron69 from a 'chrooted jail' - in this case, the 'virtual OS' used was Tahrpup (the oldest Pup that will run Iron without bitching about it). BUT:-

I refuse to take credit for the scripting mechanism that enables the magic to happen. That credit firmly belongs with watchdog.....a very quiet, unassuming individual who refuses to take credit for half of the unique stuff he's modified/put together/created over the years. He's one of this community's 'good guys', in my book.

-----------------------------------------

I've taken an interest in darry19662018's resurrected '4.3.11 'Phoenix' - initially, just for a laugh - though I'm beginning to understand just what the fuss was in days gone by. It's nowhere near as 'polished' as many more modern Puppies, but the thing is insanely fast. I like it, I like it!

The bone of contention is, as always, a modern, up-to-date, secure browser. The only one that runs natively is the Palemoon 27.9.4_SSE-only 'glibc tweaked' package watchdog originally put together, and which I've since turned into a portable. Watchdog offered a version of 28.6.1 (current) running from a chrooted 'jail' (based on Precise 571) for testing - all wrapped up as an SFS.

I tried it. It worked well. I then got to thinking; if one modern browser could be induced to run in this way, why not others? So I studied watchdog's package. Did some head-scratching; did some considering.....and settled on Tahrpup for the 'virtual' environment' (because that's what it is, though nowhere near as complex as proper VMs are). I manually 'installed' Iron 69, GTK-3, and a few other necessary bits. Libnss was taken care of by the browser package itself; I'd included an extra 'libs' directory, containing the NSS stuff from the then current Palemoon, and pointed to via an 'LD_PRELOAD' clause in the launcher wrapper-script. Modified the chroot launcher scripts from Palemoon, and the desktop entry. for the Menu.

And then, the 'moment of truth'. Fired it up, initially from the terminal; after several seconds of the crap that Chromium-based browsers insist on continuosly spitting out.....bingo! It runs well.....and is bloody fast, into the bargain.

I've since added Firefox68esr - using my portable package (easier to 'install') - which, no word of a lie, has taken things to a whole new level. For sheer speed and responsiveness, it even makes Palemoon look 'pedestrian'. In the 5 and a bit years I've been running Puppy, I've never seen a browser run this fast before.....at least, it does on my hardware. And that's far from new; the old Compaq tower is fast approaching its 14th birthday, so.....you do the maths.

Both browsers handle YouTube flawlessly, though, curiously, despite the WideVine stuff being present & correct, both claim not to be able to find it.....so no NetFlix. (Ah, well; you can't have everything!)

---------------------------------------

I know the nay-sayers will cry 'That's cheating! It's not a 'proper' Puppy solution'. And frankly, yes; I have to agree.....you are, after all, essentially running TWO Puppies at the same time. But it sure as hell works. And let's be honest about this; I don't think many of us are as 'tucked-up' for amounts of RAM/storage as we were perhaps 10 years ago.....are we?

The SFS is available for experimental purposes from the post quoted above. Personally, I'm running the 'jail' from a remote partition, since I want to use these two browsers with some of my other, elderly Pups.....


Mike. :wink:
Last edited by Mike Walsh on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.

darry19662018
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#11 Post by darry19662018 »

I refuse to take credit for the scripting mechanism that enables the magic to happen. That credit firmly belongs with watchdog.....a very quiet, unassuming individual who refuses to take credit for half of the unique stuff he's modified/put together/created over the years. He's one of this community's 'good guys', in my book.
Yes absolutely - no ego and brilliant work for old Pups - Browsers with a glibc tweak and other development work - thank you Watchdog
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#12 Post by nic007 »

I've dropped Bionic 32's kernel into this distribution. Running very nicely with new Palemoon browser and later libav codecs. Very responsive, I've actually used it exclusively for the last week.

watchdog
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#13 Post by watchdog »

darry19662018 wrote:
I refuse to take credit for the scripting mechanism that enables the magic to happen. That credit firmly belongs with watchdog.....a very quiet, unassuming individual who refuses to take credit for half of the unique stuff he's modified/put together/created over the years. He's one of this community's 'good guys', in my book.
Yes absolutely - no ego and brilliant work for old Pups - Browsers with a glibc tweak and other development work - thank you Watchdog
Main credits are to be tributed to the giant developers of puppy (BarryK, 01micko, peebee, 666philb, fredx181,...) : we are all dwarf on the shoulders of those giant men.

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Mike Walsh
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#14 Post by Mike Walsh »

watchdog wrote:
darry19662018 wrote:
I refuse to take credit for the scripting mechanism that enables the magic to happen. That credit firmly belongs with watchdog.....a very quiet, unassuming individual who refuses to take credit for half of the unique stuff he's modified/put together/created over the years. He's one of this community's 'good guys', in my book.
Yes absolutely - no ego and brilliant work for old Pups - Browsers with a glibc tweak and other development work - thank you Watchdog
Main credits are to be tributed to the giant developers of puppy (BarryK, 01micko, peebee, 666philb, fredx181,...) : we are all dwarf on the shoulders of those giant men.
Touchè, mon ami. But you do deserve some credit, y'know? You're a valuable, highly-respected and well-liked member of this community.....never forget that.

(Well, that's my view....AN' I'm sticking with it..!) :lol:


Mike. :wink:

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PipzDex
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Re: Precise Puppy 5.7.1

#15 Post by PipzDex »

Golan wrote:Hello folks,

I have precise Puppy 5.7.1 installed on a Dell 910 from several years ago, it works fine and with the extended battery is great for taking on trips.

That said it's only used for browsing, email and taking short notes so nothing too stressing or sensitive like baking, my question is does this need updating?

Linux Mint on my desktop has gone through several releases over the same time period with regular updates via manager.

Searching for a later version takes you back to the above with many links not working, I assume this distro has now been superseded by something else - if this is still safe to use security wise I'll stick with it, alternatively if someone could suggest a suitable replacement that would be great.

Thank you

Hi Golan

I'm a user of precise for long time and i can tell you if your sistem with the packages you have ins this moment is working fine, maybe don't you need update anything

but if you wanna keep precise and find some packages more new maybe you can try this packages, i made some modifications about some packages to work in precise if you want use it...

for example:
Flashplayer updater 1.9_1_Redux
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lO0aU4 ... sp=sharing

PPM V2.0
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pfhQ0A ... sp=sharing

JWM 2.7
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fbbuec ... sp=sharing

Firefox 70
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117299

Min Browser 1.7.1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x_UUop ... sp=sharing

PCManFM 1.2.0
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117300
and eyecandy to pcmanfm
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=116807

Bleachbit 2.2.3
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Yx2RkV ... sp=sharing

This is some (I got more) packages that i modified/extract and working fine in precise 5.7.1

But if you need a newer program and doesn't work in precise under any circunstances may you really need change your version of puppy..

I hope this be usefull

Golan
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#16 Post by Golan »

Mike Walsh wrote:Hallo, Golan. And a belated Image to 'the kennels'.

Nowt wrong with Precise. As with any Puppy, the browser is the main bone of contention; this is always the weakest link.

With regard to browser security; there are quite a few modern, up-to-date versions of current, Mozilla-based browsers that will run on Precise.....it's one of my oldest Puppies, and I use it as the main OS on a Dell lappie from 2002, an original (though heavily upgraded) Inspiron 1100.

Chromium-based browsers, I'm afraid, are a 'no-no', if you want a modern version. They tend to want so much more in the way of newer libs, etc.....including the glibc itself, round which the entire Puppy is based.

So, if you want a decent, up-to-date browser, you'll have to go Mozilla, I'm afraid. I'll list what's available:-

--------------------------------------------------

Palemoon 28.6.1
Firefox Quantum
Firefox 68esr
SeaMonkey 2.4.6

These are all available as 'portable installs', i.e., you can run them from outside Puppy-space. You can even run them from a flash drive. With the exception of Firefox-Quantum, assembled by Fredx181, these have all been assembled by me, and basically follow the same format. They're launched by a script within the browser directory, which, at first run, creates a sub-directory called 'profile', and then creates the profile itself within that. On second and subsequent runs, the launcher script will always use the 'internal' profile.....this is why they can run from removable media, since it's completely self-contained.

The launcher script can be dragged to the desktop, and used as a launcher for the browser, and tarted-up with an icon if desired.

Fred has modified FF-Quantum so that you now download a script, which when run will download & assemble the portable-browser. Mine are built the old-fashioned way!

You can find them at the following links:-

------------------------------------------------------

Firefox-Quantum portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=112376

-------------------------------------------------------

Firefox68esr portable (this has only recently been released):-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 82#1033182

-------------------------------------------------------

Palemoon-portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115119

This will auto-update to the current 28.6.1 within the first run or two; Moonchild Productions are building the 28-series with auto-update, as opposed to the manual update that was previously required.

-------------------------------------------------------

Seamonkey 2.4.6-portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115876

Not a personal favourite of mine (I'm a total Palemoon convert now, given the age of my hardware, although modern Chromium-based stuff will run - very early, first-gen 64-bit, y'see). I know a lot of the older Puppians still like it because it does away with the need to run a separate email client.

Talking of which, there's also:-

---------------------------------------------------

Thunderbird 60 portable:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=115447

....if you like Thunderbird.

-------------------------------------------------------

IF you use either SeaMonkey or Palemoon, they will run straight off.

For FF-Quantum, FF68esr or Thunderbird, a couple of modifications are required in Precise. Two sym-links need to be established in /lib. GTK-3 is also required; FF-Quantum and FF-ESR both need it installing, Thunderbird has it 'built-in' to the portable. Lib-dbus also needs updating.

A GTK-3.0 package for Precise can be found here:-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EPHPMJ ... sp=sharing

Just click to install.

An upgraded lib-dbus (from Debian Wheezy or Jessie, I forget which - courtesy of watchdog) can be found here:-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PETyBh ... sp=sharing

-------------------------------------

In the terminal, run the following two commands:-

Code: Select all

ln -s /lib/libcrypto.so.1.0.0 /lib/libcrypto.so.1
....and

Code: Select all

ln -s /lib/libssl.so.1.0.0 /lib/libssl.so.1
----------------------------------------------------------

The above mods will enable running the very newest Mozilla browsers in Precise 5.7.1. I like Precise; it's fast becoming accepted as the 'go-to' Puppy for older hardware, and it's a very good little OS to keep old clunkers still useful. It's fairly light, and reasonably responsive....and is capable of running a fair bit of quite modern software.

Hope that little lot helps!


Mike. :wink:
Hello again folks and apologies for my belated reply.

As customary when working on PC's I get sidetracked due to something or other and go off on a tangent.

Working on the principle of íf it 'aint broke don't fix it', I opted for updating the browser using above code. Unfortunately this was hampered by forgetting cut and paste commands into terminal - probably need an external mouse to perform as track pad insufficient. searching forum it needs CTRL/SHT and mouse wheel?

Assuming all goes well with above the main concern is security, is an OS from nine years ago without any updates safe ?

Linux Mint is based around ubuntu both of which need regular security patches however small.

Last question, will this OS support wifi hotspot tethering to my phone ?

Thanks for the help.

s243a
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#17 Post by s243a »

Golan wrote:
Mike Walsh wrote:...
With regard to browser security; there are quite a few modern, up-to-date versions of current, Mozilla-based browsers that will run on Precise.....it's one ....
I'll list what's available:-

--------------------------------------------------

Palemoon 28.6.1
Firefox Quantum
Firefox 68esr
SeaMonkey 2.4.6
Hello again folks and apologies for my belated reply.

As customary when working on PC's I get sidetracked due to something or other and go off on a tangent.

Working on the principle of íf it 'aint broke don't fix it', I opted for updating the browser using above code. Unfortunately this was hampered by forgetting cut and paste commands into terminal - probably need an external mouse to perform as track pad insufficient. searching forum it needs CTRL/SHT and mouse wheel?

Assuming all goes well with above the main concern is security, is an OS from nine years ago without any updates safe ?
I would think that if you are using a new browser and staying away from sketchy websites, then Precise should be safe enough. Keep in mind that these portable installations of browsers often use libs that are newer than in your core system. If security is in general your "primary concern" and not just in regards to precise. You might whant to check out Puli. There is a version of Puli based on tahrpup. Tahrpup is only one generation newer than precise and gjuhasz keeps it up to date.
Linux Mint is based around ubuntu both of which need regular security patches however small.
It all depends on what you are doing with the operating system. If you are running multiple external network services that anyone can connect to than such regular security patches might be critical but if you are just surfing safe web sites then perhaps the regular security patches present an needed attack vector.

The first thing you must decide is what is your threat model.
Last question, will this OS support wifi hotspot tethering to my phone ?

Thanks for the help.
Yes. See: shareInternet-2.2.6.pet - Puppy as router - bugfix

P.S. if your are looking for a more up to date version of precise then you might want to try JRB's "Precise Light".
Find me on [url=https://www.minds.com/ns_tidder]minds[/url] and on [url=https://www.pearltrees.com/s243a/puppy-linux/id12399810]pearltrees[/url].

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#18 Post by Mike Walsh »

@ Golan:-
Golan wrote:Linux Mint is based around ubuntu both of which need regular security patches however small.
Bolding added for emphasis.....

Umm; ahh....yeah. Y'know, I have to say here that 'updating/upgrading' in Linux is nowhere near as 'critical' as it is over on the 'Dark Side'. Much of the updates in Linux are for added functionality, newer versions of software, etc. Yes, there's the odd 'security' fix comes in with the kernel, occasionally.....but even with the kernel, much of this is improvements in the way the system 'talks' to the hardware, and, of course, the almost obligatory round of new drivers with every release.

The robust Linux permissions system takes care of much of the crap floating around on the 'net, all by itself. With Puppy, in particular, as Mikeslr is wont to say quite often, a correctly set-up (and operated) Puppy 'frugal' install is inherently safe anyway, due to its exceedingly unusual way of doing things.....and if you have it set for manual saves (and the system to ask you IF you want to do so), then all you need to do is to exercise a wee bit of common sense at the end of every session.

Keep the browser up-to-date, exercise common sense, and Pup will be as safe as houses for most normal users.


Mike. :wink:
Last edited by Mike Walsh on Mon 30 Dec 2019, 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

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rcrsn51
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#19 Post by rcrsn51 »

Golan wrote:Last question, will this OS support wifi hotspot tethering to my phone ?
Be more specific.

Are you talking about your phone acting as a wifi access point? So Puppy would connect to it wirelessly like to any other AP?

Or are you talking about connecting your phone directly to the Puppy machine with a USB cable?

What kind of phone?

Golan
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#20 Post by Golan »

s243a, thanks, on the security front nothing special, but if I needed to use it for bank access while travelling its handy to know all is well so to speak.

Banks will look for any excuse should something happen which includes asking if your OS is up to date with latest patches, they are also quite fussy on which browsers are supported.

The Shareiinternet looks a tad technical, perhaps my question was a bit ambiguous - basically using the phone (huawei P20) as a hot spot deice will the wireless interface connect okay?

Its a bit fiddly to try and see, connecting to regular land based WiFi can take a few attempts.

Precise Light looks fab, thanks will opt for the upgrade.
Last edited by Golan on Sat 28 Dec 2019, 14:44, edited 1 time in total.

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