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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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april

Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1241
Location: Green Island baby!

PostPosted: Mon 14 May 2018, 17:54    Post subject: Re: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Subject description: Requires testing - (Updated May 2018)
 

On google drive I could not get your files to download at all .
Couldn't you find a place that didn't rely on Microsoft?
Like Mega?
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4834
Location: Kingwood, TX

PostPosted: Mon 14 May 2018, 19:22    Post subject:  

ETP wrote:
Hi quirkian2new,

Barry normally issues Pups with the keyboard lock (In QuickSetup) turned off whilst I issue stuff with it turned on.
Just visit the menu item Setup/QuickSetup turn it off then reboot ensuring that you click on save.

With it on when using a netbook or laptop, the keyboard number overlay will result in the following:
U becomes 4
I becomes 5
O becomes 6
J becomes 1
K becomes 2
L becomes 3
M becomes 0

You can also toggle it off and on with the NumLock toggle button in the status tray but it should really be off when you boot up.

Seriously? How is that a sane default?

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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1096
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 12:47    Post subject: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Subject description: (Updated May 2018)
 

@april,

I have double checked that my upload to Google Drive was good and suggest that you try again. Perhaps the Google
data centres in Taiwan & Singapore were having issues.
Failing that perhaps some kind forum member with a NZ mega account could mirror the files.
AU currently seems to sadly lack a Google data centre.

@technosaurus,

I concede that for the 50% of people who prefer it in the opposite state it makes no sense but the other 50% are probably sick of having to tick it.
The presence of the keyboard numlock tick box in Quick Setup allows for end users to exercise their hardware dependent choice.

The only sane thing here is the inclusion in the system tray of the indicator the shows the status of the numlock/overlay and a left mouse click on that toggles
the state. A laptop user could for example switch over to the embedded keypad if they were inputting loads of figures into a database or spreadsheet.

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Kennels
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 13:24    Post subject:  

they've been mirrored here:

http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Forum_Pets

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4834
Location: Kingwood, TX

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2018, 13:41    Post subject: Re: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Subject description: (Updated May 2018)
 

ETP wrote:

@technosaurus,

I concede that for the 50% of people who prefer it in the opposite state it makes no sense but the other 50% are probably sick of having to tick it.
The presence of the keyboard numlock tick box in Quick Setup allows for end users to exercise their hardware dependent choice.

The only sane thing here is the inclusion in the system tray of the indicator the shows the status of the numlock/overlay and a left mouse click on that toggles
the state. A laptop user could for example switch over to the embedded keypad if they were inputting loads of figures into a database or spreadsheet.


People who want to override the BIOS default should set this in their BIOS. The ability for a user to easily override is fine, though pretty damn pointless since there is a key specific to that purpose and they are obviously planning to use the keyboard if they used it. I wish people would stop overriding user's preferred settings and requiring a workaround via a Rube Goldberg software implementation. Users have already exercised their choice in the BIOS (either by overriding or accepting the default) ... you are overriding that like an annoying Facebook policy update. ... Don't be like Facebook. The only sane thing is to respect the user's choice, not to override it and then make it necessary for them to jump through your hoops. Lots of people dual boot puppy/puplets and I'm confident that this would annoy most of them, especially if they specifically set it in their BIOS. If constantly checking the box is annoying, change the default in your BIOS (BIOS default should be the default BTW, not on or off... In other words do nothing)

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april

Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1241
Location: Green Island baby!

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2018, 22:49    Post subject:  

ally wrote:
they've been mirrored here:

http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Forum_Pets

:)

Thanks , I can see those but don't see the two files we are talking about?


Technosaurus
Chet Ramey
Any relation to Chet Atkins . One of the best guitar players I have ever heard until a recent bloke on the ABC whose name I have not learnt yet.
Oh damn You guys put your surname last don't you.

I always want my numblock ON! .....It deadens the nausea coming from the Government

Last edited by april on Sat 19 May 2018, 18:09; edited 4 times in total
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april

Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1241
Location: Green Island baby!

PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2018, 22:56    Post subject: Re: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Subject description: (Updated May 2018)
 

ETP wrote:
@april,
I have double checked that my upload to Google Drive was good and suggest that you try again. Perhaps the Google
data centres in Taiwan & Singapore were having issues.
Failing that perhaps some kind forum member with a NZ mega account could mirror the files.
AU currently seems to sadly lack a Google data centre.

Well that site opens for me and I get the page below but nothing happens further . Cant see or download anything.
I commend Mega to you as a free site without the prying eyes and hoops of Google.

I have got to have another try at this and see if I can get something working .Will reread the previous summaries thanks.


Well I see it needs double clicks to get anything . I get the image file first and dd it onto my trial stick . That goes alright it seems but it wont load as a USB stick any more?
I let the machine boot from that and got up
Code:

wee 0>find --set-root /grldr
wee 15> /grldr
wee 17.> -


Anyway I go download the sfx file to find it is massive ...500 Megabytes plus .
Nah... don't think this is useful to me in any way ABORT
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Filesize  244.93 KB 
Downloaded  83 Time(s) 

Last edited by april on Sat 19 May 2018, 18:06; edited 4 times in total
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1096
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2018, 06:26    Post subject: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Subject description: (Updated May 2018)
 

Hi technosaurus,

It seems that you are harking back to the good old days of DOS when the numlock setting in the BIOS was respected by the OS.

In the case of Puppy and most mainstream Linux distros that is not the case so they provide alternate means of making one's choice.
(i.e. they ignore the state of the numlock setting in the BIOS)

The keyboard numlock tick-box provided by Barry within Quick Setup does not in my experience mirror the BIOS numlock state.
If it did it would be pre-populated with a tick as all of my boxes have it set to on. If users have made a choice within the BIOS it will be ignored.

This issue is a thorny one and some of the problems are well described in this 8 year old blog:
https://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/what-is-it-with-numlock-and-linux-120309

The issue of users with alpha numeric login passwords is typically described in the following thread
which has a couple of screenshots showing the Linux Mint approach:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/275474/turn-on-numlock-on-startup-in-linux-mint

IMHO it makes sense for users to have only one port of call to exercise their choice but to provide a ready means
of easily toggling the state subsequently. There is no single correct answer. The addition of on-screen lock status
indicators is essential for wireless keyboards and laptops that frequently lack indicator leds.

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Kennels
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april

Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1241
Location: Green Island baby!

PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2018, 18:56    Post subject:  

So as a puppy user I get this self extracting file of 528 Megabytes containing barry's work and I'm thinking , well maybe there is a way for Puppy to open this .

After all this is a Puppy forum and we use Linux not Windows ,surely someone would not get in here and start promoting the use of Windows shit.

So how am I supposed to open this massive big download now?

You do not need 2 files ! Only one from below

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=106460
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1096
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun 20 May 2018, 14:49    Post subject: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.
Subject description: (Updated May 2018)
 

@april

Quote:
So as a puppy user I get this self extracting file of 528 Megabytes containing barry's work and I'm thinking , well maybe there is a way for Puppy to open this .
After all this is a Puppy forum and we use Linux not Windows ,surely someone would not get in here and start promoting the use of Windows shit.
So how am I supposed to open this massive big download now?


I suggest that you read the instructions again relating to the 2nd file & study the 8 screenshots provided one of which lists the extras added to the files taken
from Barry's base 415MB iso. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=991458#991458
This is not a full install as provided by his 541 MB xerus64-8.5-8gb.img.gz

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Kennels
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quirkian2new

Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 111
Location: on the inter-planet train

PostPosted: Mon 21 May 2018, 09:24    Post subject:  

Hello, ETP,

For the past few days, running from a desktop PC with 8GB physical ram and find it very smooth and stable. System showed that there is 11G personal storage and 10G available.

The 'theatre style' of Youtube is very impressive.

Thanks for your excellent work. Thank you.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8676
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 24 May 2018, 09:56    Post subject:  

@etp,
There is something that might interest you, to make running-in-zram ultra secure.

Linux Capabilities enables root-user to be divested of its powers, as much as wanted.

There is one individual capability, known as cap_sys_mount, that is not official, requires a kernel patch. However, I think that it is particularly useful.

It would need to be worked out exactly how to implement it, but basically something like

/sbin/capsh --drop=cap_sys_mount -- -c "/bin/sh"

would run a shell without the ability to mount or umount. This could be implemented at the time of switch_root.

So, if booting from a usb stick, if the stick partition is already mounted before running capsh, then only that partition can be accessed. Everything else is unreachable.

I wrote about the patch here:

http://bkhome.org/news/201805/improving-linux-capabilities.html

I have got it working, and will probably upload EasyOS 0.9.3 with the patched kernel tomorrow. Also the kernel pet and the kernel sources.

In my case, I am using Linux Capabilities to restrict the root-user in containers.

Oh, one more thing. I haven't posted to my blog about it yet, but I had to patch 'libcap' the package that has capsh, to get it to recognise cap_sys_mount.

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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1096
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 24 May 2018, 10:36    Post subject:  

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your post which will I think, interest a number of forum members such as greengeek.
I will take a look at it when you release 0.9.3

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Kennels
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ETP


Joined: 19 Oct 2010
Posts: 1096
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2018, 11:43    Post subject: New simple install & boot method - only 2 files needed.  

Update:

Please note that forum member @Gyro has a similar thread running to this one, the common objective being to
simplify matters for Windows users wishing to try out and possibly move over to Puppy Linux.
His approach offers a different method and can be found here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113724
I think we also both acknowledge that the lack of built-in optical drives in recent kit has been a factor in Puppy's decline together
with the need sometimes to wrap one's head around the use of quite complex boot/cheat codes depending on the target hardware.

Quite frankly it must be made as simple as possible both to try out and to subsequently install if the rot is to be halted.

The majority of forum members were once themselves pure Windows users and some of us still give various versions some limited kennel room.
Windows 10 however was a game changer for most people as rather than being a true OS it's primary function is as a tracking, targeted advertising,
revenue generating tool that equals or exceeds Google's best efforts in those areas.

In effect Windows 10 has given Linux its best opportunity in years to boost its popularity but we must all rise to the challenge.
(Rant ends)
To return to topic there was the following exchange of posts relating to this thread:

    3rd July 2018
    Burn_IT
    Joined: 12 Aug 2006
    Posts: 3121
    Location: Tamworth UK

    PostPosted: Today, at 07:34 Post subject:
    Quote:
    A Windows user would need 7-Zip to extract the contents


    Not if a self extracting file is created.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    3rd July 2018
    Hi Burn_IT,

    Yes, it is perfectly possible to offer two self extracting files (.sfx and .exe )
    A self-extracting windows archive would not require the user to be running 7-Zip or the Portable Apps version of 7-Zip.
    In fact they could download it directly to the root of their data drive [D:] and right click it to scan it before
    left clicking it to extract it. It would only add about 4MB to the file size.

    Please let me know if you wish to test such a file and I will upload one.
    Straight to NTFS partition is a good option as it is performance wise, on a par with non-journaled EXT4.

    Regards ETP
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A self-extracting Windows version of the 2nd file (532MB xerus64-8.5.exe) has now been uploaded purely for Windows users who do not have
access to Linux and do not wish to install 7-Zip which would be required if they used the .sfx
In order to write the 1st (16MB Boot Image) file to a card or stick they would need to install Win32diskimager (provided) or Etcher.
As with any downloaded executable in Windows they should first virus scan it before clicking it to extract it once placed
in the root of the stick or [D:] drive.
If targeting a stick it should first be fully re-formatted as NTFS using Windows if you do not possess Linux.

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