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XenialDog (Ubuntu 16.04 'Xenial Xerus' LTS, 32-bit)
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1853
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Sun 08 May 2016, 08:28    Post subject:  

Hi fredx181 !
Regarding wireless not working.

I grabbed wicd-gtk---- via Apt2Sfs in MintPup.

Then dropped the wicd-gtk.squasfs module into Xenial-Dog's Casper/base folder installed on Usb- Flash.
In MintPup it works flawless this way.

Booted into Xenial-Dog expecting it to load like it did in Mintpup .

Result :
Found wicd-gtk in Menue
Started
Scanned for Networks
Found my network (Frisbee does not )
Configured it with Password ....
the whole procedure started .....but finally did not connect . (in MintPup it does )

Strange !
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 08 May 2016, 12:45    Post subject:  

Hi backi,

Quote:
I grabbed wicd-gtk---- via Apt2Sfs in MintPup


If I understand well you use wicd-gtk squashfs module on Xenialdog created in Mintpup.
If so, I'd strongly advice not to do it like that, Mintpup is build on an older version of Ubuntu, so the libraries/binaries are different.
You might be lucky in such a case that it works in some way, but better install wicd-gtk on Xenialdog:
Code:
apt-get install wicd-gtk

Reboot with save and see if you can connect with wicd-gtk

Also, maybe better to try first: Did you try to install "rfkill" and see if frisbee work properly after that?
It's dependency of frisbee, but I forgot to include it in the iso.
Code:
apt-get install rfkill

Reboot with save and see if you can connect with frisbee.

Edit:
As a side note: I'd advice also not to use a squashfs module for wicd-gtk as it's meant to run as daemon at boot, use apt2sfs only for applications that not depend on starting at boot.

Fred
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Mon 09 May 2016, 19:31    Post subject: Alexandra was needing wine until XenialDog released  

"Looks like a nice app and I see it is native linux app - not needing wine?"
Alexandra was needing wine until XenialDog released. Now the package manager deals with what is needed. You have nothing to do, just waiting two minutes downloads are finished.
mcewanw, a topic now will exist in Multimedia section, not to disturb here people with specific problems (or congratulations Smile ) about XenialDog
However i will continue to feed back here successful installation of new stuff, unavailable in Puppy Linux (always my favourite Linux, if developers don't stop compiling pets)

Mutimedia : Topic for Alexandra for people interested in Video editing and managing.

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Mon 09 May 2016, 19:59    Post subject: About Frisbee : working nice at home with Xenialdog.
Subject description: Wicd , as a second tool, the jocker
 

About Frisbee : working nice at home with Xenialdog.
Nevertheless i think an alternative must be kept, because sometimes Frisbee does not find at first run,
Wicd is one of them. But usual wizards in Puppy (sorry) could help for first settings (depending on computers, geographical location and dates, i repeat dates)
So i have just install Wicd , as a second tool in case of frisbee failures.
Yesterday, the network was appearing, i connected on a profile, and when arrived on the browser : No web available.
PM message to developers : Wireless if for computing outside home, even if it is useful at home to go here and there without an ethernet cable.
So programs must be done for outside usage, far from your ADSL box.. and able to connect in trains, in bars, or elsewhere to Public Wifi stations..
Some of puppy-Builders even don't have wireless at home (no pendrive too) and they ignore why we should need several tools to connect.
Keymap Fr France : during the session my changes in etc are efficient, even at reboot. A detail, at shutdown, exit, a french typewriter would have to type stqrtx to return in the session or pozeroff to stop computing. Some newbies or housemaids ignore what letters to use an their azertuiop keyboard. A definitive solution would be more suitable.

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2016, 09:47    Post subject:  

Pelo wrote:
Keymap Fr France : during the session my changes in etc are efficient, even at reboot. A detail, at shutdown, exit, a french typewriter would have to type stqrtx to return in the session or pozeroff to stop computing


No need to edit the file /etc/default/keyboard.
It can be set from Menu > Settings > Keyboard Layout (see screenshot)

Fred
keyboard-config_619x457.png
 Description   set keyboard
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keyboard-config_619x457.png

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: holland

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2016, 15:26    Post subject:  

*** New version of custom package gnome-mplayer-1.0.7 ***

Previous version could not play DVD's or DVD from folder, this one does now, install:

Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install gnome-mplayer-1.0.7


Added to Changes and fixes list (5)

Fred
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Wed 11 May 2016, 16:00    Post subject: XenialDog ? i really like it..  

XenialDog ? i really like it... Transferred in a brand new pendrive 8GB
syslinux chosen.

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 14 May 2016, 14:21    Post subject: What's the real memory used?  

Hi All,

It would be nice if anyone can shine a light on what's actually the memory "used" in newer distros's like Xenial or similar e.g. Debian Stretch/Sid (testing/unstable).

It surprised me (and annoyed me) that the output of htop and free are very different nowadays.
Continued from here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=903489#903489
And here: (output of htop and free, compared Mintpup and XenialDog from forum member backi)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=903763#903763

backi wrote:
This was my observation regarding Ram in Mintpup and XenialDog .

For XenialDog :

Htop shows 362 megs of ram usage in Htop
( really.... 362 in Htop )

Code:
root@xenial:~# free
              total   used      free  shared   buff/cache available
Mem: 1015676 61252 180008 297832   774416     629632
Swap: 2614268 0 2614268

For Mintpup ( shows 72megs ram usage in Htop) :

mint ~ # free
              total        used      free    shared   buffers cached
Mem:   1017580   582452  435128  207140  44280  465284
-/+ buffers/cache:  72888  944692
Swap: 3123056 0 3123056


My output from free on XenialDog (just booted):
Code:
root@xenial:~# free
                      total        used        free          shared     buff/cache   available
Mem:        3092312       72224     2656268       47932      363820     2934992
Swap:        424952           0      424952


Found on the web how the "used" memory from free is calculated from /proc/meminfo:
MemTotal - (MemFree + Buffers + Cached) = Used

Code:
TOT=`cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemTotal: | awk '{print $2}'`
FREE=`cat /proc/meminfo | grep MemFree: | awk '{print $2}'`
BUFFERS=`cat /proc/meminfo | grep Buffers: | awk '{print $2}'`
CACHE=`cat /proc/meminfo | grep ^Cached: | awk '{print $2}'`

z=$(echo $FREE + $BUFFERS + $CACHE | bc)

# MemTotal minus MemFree + Buffers + Cached :
echo $TOT - $z | bc
121864


Big difference between the manual calculation: 121864 and the above 'free' displayed "used" memory: 72224 .

The output from htop is even more higher than the manual calculation.

Also, see screenshot, the output of 'lxtask' which is different also (in the middle of free and manual calc).

I'm confused!! Help!! Smile

Fred
lxtask_memory-usage _just-booted-XenialDog.png
 Description   lxtask memory-usage from just booted XenialDog
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lxtask_memory-usage _just-booted-XenialDog.png

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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Sat 14 May 2016, 21:10    Post subject: I will give you my data  

You are looking at indicators when driving when you are afraid to miss gas oil, or to go faster than the limited speed. Personally with 4GB of Ram, using XenialDog is not trouble at all..
If i were using my Acer aspire 1640 with 512MB and only one processor, sure, i will choose between distros carefully.
I you wonder about Mintpup, it would not run on a 512MB laptop, adding wireless drivers and the browser make it quite as as big as Xenialdog
I will give you my data. ASAP. But XenialDog is far from my upper limits Smile
I can tell the truth here, the Linux Mint repository is a misery, what is the interest of low RAM consumption if you cannot do anything more with your computer than with puppy 4.3.1 ? all the applications i found are available in Puppies. I wont't leave Puppy Linux for a bigger and less efficient distro. Our students ennoy themselves, and they make some tries, here and there. There are free, but for people some distros have no interest at all, apart some trouble to run them.

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2016, 07:46    Post subject:  

HI Fred, I posted my own results and opinions in link below:

My summary:

Despite the bad news for XenialDog users about its htop utility (IMO) being all screwed up, the good news is that it is reporting far too high memory usage in my opinion. I believe, however, that the value given for RAM 'usage' in XenialDog 'free' utility is correct since it matches its /proc/meminfo reported values. That being so, XenialDog usage is actually LESS than MintPup immediately after booting! (XenialDog free reports 'usage' (which is MemTotal-MemFree-(Buffers+Cached)), immediately after boot on my 2GB RAM laptop, as approximately 86420 KiBytes = 86420/1024 MiBytes = 84 MiBytes (with the four Roxterms open and running the free, top and htop utilities in them), which is pretty good!!!

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=903879#903879

William

EDIT: But my manual calculation (from simply observing /proc/meminfo MemTotal; MemFree; Buffers; Cached statistics) came to 'pretty close' to EXACTLY what XenialDog free was reporting for 'usage'. I think you overcomplicated things by running awk and so on - these mem stats change quite rapidly all the time, so it is vital to check as close 'as possible' to one moment in time and without running extra processes.

EDIT2: Sorry, the XenialDog utilities jpeg I uploaded in above link doesn't show the close correlation between the /proc/meminfo values and the 'free' utility 'usage' report. But it did during tests (I'm pretty sure) if you can capture the /proc/meminfo stats fast enough in sync with the free usage output value. The trouble is, the buffer/cache stats can change pretty fast

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2016, 08:52    Post subject:  

Hello again Fred,

No, you are correct, there is something not matching between XenialDog free results and the stats in /proc/meminfo. I think I accidentally confirmed calculations using the free reported buffers/cache rather than the /proc/meminfo Buffers and Cached stats - the free buffers/cache and meminfo Buffers/Cached are out by quite a few tens of k's on my machine... I imagine something else is also being counted as buffers or cache by free (and top) utility.

William

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2016, 09:12    Post subject:  

I think I have the answer Fred, the XenialDog free utility is including /proc/meminfo SReclaimable and SUnreclaim in buffers + cache calculation.

i.e. free utilities buff/cache = Buffers + Cached + SReclaimable + SUnreclaim

I haven't checked further with htop or lxtask come to that, but I suspect the different reports are all to do with what is being counted as buffers + cache.

William

EDIT: pretty much verified that now. See here:

https://github.com/brndnmtthws/conky/issues/130

page down to the marcpayne comments of 12 Sept 2015 (followed by those of OmegaPhil), where he makes similar observation on Arch Linux system including accounting for differences between free, conky and htop there. According to the marcpayne view of htop, the MintPup htop gives the expected RAM usage result when used in XenialDog, but I haven't a clue what the XenialDog's own htop is reporting - it is far too high compared to every other report. Bearing in mind that the usage report from free in XenialDog assumes these extra bits in buff/cache, then MintPup usage actually is a bit less than XenialDog on bootup, but not hugely...

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2016, 15:33    Post subject:  

Hi William,

Thanks for the extensive replies. Not short of sleep I hope? Wink
And the info you found: https://github.com/brndnmtthws/conky/issues/130
Things are a whole lot more clear to me.
It seems that they changed the standard now of what's actually "memory used", but I still can't understand why htop output is so different from free.
(BTW, conky and htop are exactly the same)
At least now we know how the free output is calculated in XenialDog:
MemTotal - MemFree - (Buffers + Cached + SReclaimable + SUnreclaim)
And calculating in bash proves it (pretty much synced free and calculation output running at the same time):
Code:
# 'free' output itself and calculation similar as 'free' as it's done on XenialDog: MemTotal - MemFree - (Buffers + Cached + SReclaimable + SUnreclaim) :
# (on XenialDog this calculated output from /proc/meminfo is the same (or almost) as the 'free' output)
( cat /proc/meminfo > /tmp/memlist &
free & )     # synced with each other, at least almost
sleep 1
TOT=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep MemTotal: | awk '{print $2}'`; FREE=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep MemFree: | awk '{print $2}'`; BUFFERS=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep Buffers: | awk '{print $2}'`; CACHE=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep ^Cached: | awk '{print $2}'`; SRECLAIM=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep SReclaimable: | awk '{print $2}'`; SUNRECLAIM=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep SUnreclaim: | awk '{print $2}'`;
echo -e "\e[0;32mUsed = $(($TOT-$FREE-($BUFFERS+$CACHE+$SRECLAIM+$SUNRECLAIM)))\033[0m"


How the calculation is done for 'free' "used" (+/- buffer/cache line) on DebianDog: MemTotal - MemFree - (Buffers + Cached) :
Code:
# 'free' output itself and calculation similar as 'free' as it's done on DebianDog or Mintpup: MemTotal - MemFree - (Buffers + Cached)
# (on XenialDog this calculated output from /proc/meminfo is far higher compared to 'free' output)
# (on DebianDog or Mintpup it should be almost the same)
( cat /proc/meminfo > /tmp/memlist &
free & )     # synced with each other, at least almost
sleep 1
TOT=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep MemTotal: | awk '{print $2}'`; FREE=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep MemFree: | awk '{print $2}'`; BUFFERS=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep Buffers: | awk '{print $2}'`; CACHE=`cat /tmp/memlist | grep ^Cached: | awk '{print $2}'`;
echo -e "\e[0;32mUsed = $(($TOT-$FREE-($BUFFERS+$CACHE)))\033[0m"


The calculated "used" output is near (although a few MB's higher) to what lxtask gives, so I trust it the most when it comes at comparing RAM usage with "older" distro's.
(still a whole lot lower than htop, which is excessive in my opinion, specially in time, when I actually have started using some programs, e.g. firefox)

Fred
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2016, 18:50    Post subject:  

Hi Fred,

Nice scripts - I might just use these as a more trustable alternative and yes, htop, which is the most generally used, does seem to give far to high usage results (and conky thus with it).

As for sleep, its true I'm having little, but nothing to do with computer work per se (just using that to fill in my time); my partner is abroad on a business trip so keeping in touch (despite the timezone difference) via Skype during late nights/early mornings.

William

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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 20 May 2016, 11:02    Post subject:  

*** Important Info ***

The XenialDog (custom) package repository is down and this will probably be permanent.
The thing is; for http://debiandog.ml/XenialDog/ I use free webhosting from hostinger.com.
But I received email today that my account is suspended Sad
Reason: Abuse
Extra info: Is used just for file sharing Confused
So I learned from that; to never use free webhosting again for a package repository.

The repository address has now changed to dropbox, to make it work, in terminal first:
Code:
apt-get update
apt-get install apt-transport-https # required for dropbox


Then, use text-editor e.g. leafpad to remove this line on top of file: /etc/apt/sources.list:
Code:
deb http://debiandog.ml/XenialDog/Packages/ ./

And replace by adding on top:
Code:
deb https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36381953/XenialDog/Packages/ ./

Then:
Code:
apt-get update

And it should be fixed.

Probably I will upload new ISO soon because of this, with other bug fixes also included.

Edit: Updated the first post also, changed links to DEVX and locales modules to google-drive address (instead of http://debiandog.ml/XenialDog/)
DEVX: 061-DEVX-XenialDog-2016-04-29.squashfs
Locales: 99-locales-XenialDog-2016-04-29.squashfs
Edit2: New DEVX and locales modules (for new ISO release, 2016-05-21):
DEVX: 061-DEVX-XenialDog-2016-05-21.squashfs
Locales: 99-locales-XenialDog-2016-05-21.squashfs

Fred

Last edited by fredx181 on Sun 22 May 2016, 13:37; edited 3 times in total
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