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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
Quirky Xerus 8.6 (Aug. 16), Beaver 8.7.1 (Sept. 21), 2018
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1628

PostPosted: Tue 02 Oct 2018, 03:52    Post subject: Re: Login
Subject description: Login Beaver 8.7,1
 

Reneetje wrote:
Have made a concept login-screen for accessing Quirky Beaver 8.7.1
It's just a start.


Hoi, Reneetje!

That concept 'login-screen' is uber nice!

Any chance of sharing it (how/what you wrote)? Wink
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5431
Location: GB

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct 2018, 03:17    Post subject:  

Shame about the poor DWW review, shame about the poorly informed reviewer, shame about BK's decision. For those who value the speed and universality of the .iso s for diagnosis, repair and demonstration, (such as YT!), almost nothing need change in perpetuity, except remember to remove the RJ45 on old kit before switching on.
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8743
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct 2018, 06:31    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Shame about the poor DWW review, shame about the poorly informed reviewer, shame about BK's decision. For those who value the speed and universality of the .iso s for diagnosis, repair and demonstration, (such as YT!), almost nothing need change in perpetuity, except remember to remove the RJ45 on old kit before switching on.


For those wondering what Sage is saying, it is in response to this:

http://bkhome.org/news/201810/the-end-of-quirky-linux.html

The DW review is not the cause of my decision, it has been a long time coming. My main problem is that my efforts are spread too thin, and I cannot support Quirky properly anymore.

Note however, Quirky is built with woofQ, which also builds EasyOS, and there is no immediate plan to drop the capability of building Quirky. So, someone who wants to create another Quirky-based distro, may do so.

And yes, as Sage laments, the ISO format is not offered by EasyOS. Optical media is a legacy format, rapidly dying. The junk mail in my letterbox has ads for mostly laptops, very few desktop systems, and most of those laptops do not have an optical drive -- I am thinking of a Harvey Norman sale catalog that I looked at recently.

It also greatly simplifies things for me to offer just one download file, an image that can be written to a usb-stick, or directly installed as a frugal installation on a hard drive.

EasyOS is very different from anything else, but I haven't really explained how. Yes, there are some intro pages, but there needs to be a page in plain English, simple point-form. I am writing down those points now, will create that page soon, and there will be new announcements.

Anyway, Quirky, Xerus 8.6 and Beaver 8.7.1 are the end of the line.

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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 3635
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct 2018, 06:41    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:

Anyway, Quirky, Xerus 8.6 and Beaver 8.7.1 are the end of the line.


I think Beaver 8.7.1 is excellent, can't imagine what more could be needed in a distro.

Thanks
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lp-dolittle

Joined: 25 Apr 2016
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct 2018, 12:31    Post subject: the end of quirky
Subject description: EasyOS totally running in RAM
 

@ Barry

thank you very much for having provided us with the fantastic quirkies!!

Of course, we understand and accept your decision, especially in view of your workload and the intention to exclusively focus on the development of EasyOS. Good to read that the DW review which obviously missed the point did not influence your decision!

What many of us will miss is the live-CD/DVD option or, maybe, rather the 'totally running in RAM option' which does not vitally depend on the availability of a CD/DVD-drive. In this respect, the live-flash stick variant might prove to be a valuable alternative (finally, perhaps also for Sage).

So, a question/wish which many of us are thinking of might read: is it possible - or are you planning - to create an EasyOS variant that can be run in RAM exclusively? Albeit, as I can see from your recent post, you are not intending to continue the OS.iso-image tradition.

kind regards, and again, thank you so much for all your efforts!!
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1628

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct 2018, 14:56    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:
Sage wrote:
Shame about the poor DWW review, shame about the poorly informed reviewer, shame about BK's decision. For those who value the speed and universality of the .iso s for diagnosis, repair and demonstration, (such as YT!), almost nothing need change in perpetuity, except remember to remove the RJ45 on old kit before switching on.


For those wondering what Sage is saying, it is in response to this:

http://bkhome.org/news/201810/the-end-of-quirky-linux.html

The DW review is not the cause of my decision, it has been a long time coming. My main problem is that my efforts are spread too thin, and I cannot support Quirky properly anymore.

Note however, Quirky is built with woofQ, which also builds EasyOS, and there is no immediate plan to drop the capability of building Quirky. So, someone who wants to create another Quirky-based distro, may do so.

And yes, as Sage laments, the ISO format is not offered by EasyOS. Optical media is a legacy format, rapidly dying. The junk mail in my letterbox has ads for mostly laptops, very few desktop systems, and most of those laptops do not have an optical drive -- I am thinking of a Harvey Norman sale catalog that I looked at recently.

It also greatly simplifies things for me to offer just one download file, an image that can be written to a usb-stick, or directly installed as a frugal installation on a hard drive.

EasyOS is very different from anything else, but I haven't really explained how. Yes, there are some intro pages, but there needs to be a page in plain English, simple point-form. I am writing down those points now, will create that page soon, and there will be new announcements.

Anyway, Quirky, Xerus 8.6 and Beaver 8.7.1 are the end of the line.


That's a pretty big shot across the bow of Fatdog, DebianDogs and Wanderer's latest Corepup, among others. Sad

I think the problem here, Barry, is that when you left and handed the reins over for the direction of Puppy, that direction, within a few years, started to falter. The tree you built & grew started growing various trunks and became unruly, sprouting in every direction.

To make matters worse, Micko (for the past year and half or more) has gone missing....you see him post every now and then, but that's it. I understand he has a family and other obligations & all, but it still doesn't make the fact that he abandoned and/or neglected most things Puppy (for all intents & purposes) ok

Phil, with his woofCE builds, in the beginning tried to pick up things, but there's been times recently when he's been in and out too, so to speak. Actually, it is Peebee who has admirably stepped in and tried to give direction on murga...he is the one who has been carrying the mantle of woofCE builds and upkeeping them almost daily. So have many others, with most all using woof to do their builds. So there is that positive.


Oh well, I don't know what the answer is. I personally like all the variety here on Murga, with many different distros, but that is possibly because I have been on the puppy train for so many years and thus feel comfortable branching out with other/alt choices. I understand though that for too many, choices really only does one thing in their life, and that is: cause confusion, much confusion. So, maybe a restructuring of the murga forum is badly needed to separate all the trunks of this wild tree that grows here now.

I gotta say, though, both Easy and Quirkies are and have been fun......and especially ever since you've been introducing "Containers" in Easy. With Containers I've become an even bigger fan of Easy. In my opinion, it alone makes Easy great. Glad you're going forward with Easy and not dropping it in favor of Quirky Wink
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8743
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct 2018, 19:52    Post subject:  

@belham2
I understand all of your sentiments. It will be great if peebee can get out a new Puppy.

I will be starting a separate forum, with a very narrow focus, just for announcement and feedback about EasyOS.

However, I will still haunt this forum. A lot of good things happen here, and yes, the diversity is great. If I post anything about Easy, other than some kind of oblique reference, it will most likely be in the "Off Topic" section!

@lp-dolittle
Running from a flash-stick does not touch the internal drives, however, if you want to be able to bootup and remove the flash-stick -- thus running totally in RAM -- that is doable.

The "working partition" can be specified as a zram device, rather than a partition on the flash-stick. I did start to think about this awhile back, but didn't complete it, so there are probably some details to sort out.

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 13166
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2018, 15:24    Post subject:  

Hello Barry, hello all.

About the DW review
-- I'll add to Sage's comment that the DW reviewer is ill-informed, etc.

Having read the DW review, I got the distinct impression that this DW writer
is a fussy lazy-bones with a sore lack of imagination and intellectual
curiosity, with near-zero tolerance to different-looking desktop and app
designs, PLUS it is blatantly obvious that he has it in for anything Puppy-like.

IMO, with his narrow-minded approach, all by himself this writer is casting
doubt on whether the entire DW "Top 100" distro list even remotely reflects
users' preferences in the Linux world.

@BarryK
-- If my life experience is any reference, when anyone gets on your back
with such nastiness, it usually indicates the contrary: you are doing
something quite good, and they are green with envy!

-- Thanks for all you have done, Barry, the pioneering as well as the
polishing, for the Puppies and the Quirkies, old and new! Happy inroads
with your new projects!

BFN.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 8743
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2018, 20:27    Post subject:  

Things are happening:

http://bkhome.org/news/201810/new-website-for-easyos.html

This forum-thing is an experiment. A long time ago, before the Murga forum came into existence, I hosted a forum, then got a mySQL database error, which required a lot of fiddling around to fix. I decided, didn't want anything more to do with that, and that was when John Murga offered his services.

In the Omnis control panel, the database has an "Automatic repair" checkbox, that is ticked -- hey, that seems good!

Notice the new website is "https"!

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CHLee

Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2018, 21:15    Post subject: The end of Quirky Linux  

Dear Barry,
Before you stop development of Quirky Linux, would you mind to upload your last woofQ for "Quirky Beaver64-8.7.1"? Thank you very much. Thank you created Quirky Linux.
Best regards,
C.H.Lee
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1364
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2018, 22:07    Post subject: Beaver 8.7.1 missing libarchive-dev +libssl dev files?  

Just a note that /usr/share/pkgconfig and the devx have pkgconfig/libarchive.pc missing.

Apparently libarchive has a separate libarchive-dev and it's in that together with the man and doc files (many complaints about this from builders).

https://packages.debian.org/stretch/amd64/libarchive-dev/filelist as example.
/usr/include/archive.h
/usr/include/archive_entry.h
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libarchive.a
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libarchive.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libarchive.pc
+
+
take it we don't need the doc and man files.

EDIT1: .config complains on libssl.pc missing although the libssl-dev package is in the woof-installed-packages as is two others, there is nothing in the packages/builtin_files listing contents for any of the three libssl files mentioned?
EDIT2: yup, found with the four libssl bionic files from ubundu installed as well as the libarchive-dev I mentioned earlier it will ./configure build (make) and install (make install) ok. Now to sort out additions to paths for lib, include, etc.
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666philb


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3228
Location: wales

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2018, 06:50    Post subject:  

quirky is reviewed in Linux format magazine...10 out of 10 ! Very Happy
scan of review https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SsqNyofD2glL7t9088qgEq31TLq0ANqz
quirkyreview.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   228.38 KB
 Viewed   494 Time(s)

quirkyreview.jpg

IMG_20181005_115403.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   72.19 KB
 Viewed   536 Time(s)

IMG_20181005_115403.jpg


_________________
Tahrpup, built with trusty tahr packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=96178
Xenialpup64, built with xenial xerus packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107331
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1860
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2018, 14:29    Post subject:  

nice!

Smile
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 13166
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2018, 16:48    Post subject:  

Excellent antidote to DW's venom, IMO.
Thanks, 666philb.

_________________
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
Je suis né pour aimer et non pas pour haïr. (Sophocle) /
I was born to love and not to hate. (Sophocles)
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2844
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 06 Oct 2018, 19:13    Post subject: Lack of ISO  

Just my 2 Cents

As far as I know, the vast majority of people interested in trying any Linux system are newbies (recent emigres from Windows) and Linux users, themselves; and the majority of Linux users are those using Ubuntu or debian. What all those have in common is familiarity with GUIs which take the guess-work out of trying to accomplish anything.

BarryK wrote:
And yes, as Sage laments, the ISO format is not offered by EasyOS. Optical media is a legacy format, rapidly dying.
Unless I've missed something, as far as I can tell, currently there is no GUI available by which Quirky Beaver can be installed to any media. How to install Quirky Beaver: http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky6/amd64/releases/beaver-8.7.1/howto-install.htm

Although an ISO is a legacy format, I question whether IT is rapidly dying. The original media for which it was intended –CDs & DVDs-- may be dying. But the ISO, itself, is a universally understood packaging format. There are applications, providing GUIs, that run under Windows, under Linux, and several specifically built to run under Puppy Linux, that recognize the ISO format and can directly and quickly “burn” the OS unto a USB-Key avoiding any need to use, or even have, DVD/CD burners or DVDs/CDs. [And, of course, Puppies include the tools for mounting an ISO so that its content can quickly be copied to any drive, hard-or-USB, forming the basis for an operating system once a bootloader is installed or edited].

So, for a moment, imagine me as a typical Linux-Shopper, seeking to try out some possibilities. How desperate, or knowledgeable, do I have to be before I'm going to try one which demands that I forgo the convenience and familiarity of a GUI for one which compels me to use code which I may not understand, and which –if I guess wrong in specifying the location where the OS will be written-- can wipe out my only operating system?

This is not in anyway meant to suggest that the deployment method provided by Quirky Beaver might not be the most efficient. It's just that, where Humans are involved, efficiency is over-rated.
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