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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
FatDog = SlowDog
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userxbw

Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb 2016, 10:20    Post subject:  FatDog = SlowDog  

I am running FatDog64 off 32GB USB Stick on an intel duo Core 2.66Ghz CPUs ~ 4GB RAM ~ ATI Graphics . When I ran this burned onto a usb stick using dd it was not doing what it is now that I have installed it onto a usb stick using the fatdog install application.

clicking on a file, in this case a movie, it takes a long time before it opens vlc to play it. 15 - 20 secs or more, when use to be as soon as it was clicked on. It is like running Linux on my old acer d250 atom n240 ~ when I was maxing out my CPU trying to watch DVD rips.

It runs my cpu up to 100% for no apparent reasons, it sticks/stalls blanking my open windows ~you know how a browser window goes all gray screen trying to refresh? It takes like forever.

at times I have to sit and wait for my CPU to settle down before I can go on to finishing what I was doing. sometimes I have to wait and my CPU isn't even running at 100%. It's sporadic. Though it has already taken place over 3 times while writing this.


I have set / created the savefile at 28GB ~ ext4 to utilize the full free space of my stick, if that might have an effect on it. I do not know.
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rokytnji

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 2288

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb 2016, 10:49    Post subject:  

Honoring the title of the thread.

Only cure for my dogs when they get rabies is a .22 caliber bullet.

What type of file system is on your usb drive (outside of save file)? What make is the drive?
How was the install done? Have you configured the ati driver install?

Te brand and model name of the said gear (laptop/desktop?) won't hurt your cause either.
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 15041
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb 2016, 11:06    Post subject: Re: FatDog = SlowDog  

userxbw wrote:
I am running FatDog64 off 32GB USB Stick on an intel duo Core 2.66Ghz CPUs ~ 4GB RAM ~ ATI Graphics . When I ran this burned onto a usb stick using dd it was not doing what it is now that I have installed it onto a usb stick using the fatdog install application.

It runs my cpu up to 100% for no apparent reasons, it sticks/stalls blanking my open windows ~you know how a browser window goes all gray screen trying to refresh? It takes like forever.

at times I have to sit and wait for my CPU to settle down before I can go on to finishing what I was doing. sometimes I have to wait and my CPU isn't even running at 100%. It's sporadic. Though it has already taken place over 3 times while writing this.

I have set / created the savefile at 28GB ~ ext4 to utilize the full free space of my stick, if that might have an effect on it. I do not know.
Hello userxbw.

I don't know fatdog, hopefully someone from that "breed" of Puppy will answer.

But I have lots of experience with Puppies generally, and off the top of my head:
* locate the program "htop" in your menu and open it.

This program is a process monitor, it shows the active processes.

Look at the 3-4 lines at the top of the listing. Notice the columns:
CPU%, MEM%, TIME and Command.
Now under Command : who's the biggest bugger? Smile

I suspect it might be your browser, a tab with lots of recycling graphics that you
forgot to close, perhaps.

Or the ROX-Filer will do that too if you loaded -- by hand -- a "hosts" file in folder
/etc without stating the "puppypc" (and number) at the right place in the list.

If you use the "Pup-Advert Blocker" to do this (last entry in the Internet sub-menu
usually), the hosts file is set up automatically and correctly, so you won't have such
a bug.

Please post back a screen capture of you htop window, so we can better help you.
~~~
On the subject of the savefile, 28 G is way too much, but on a hard drive it wouldn't
matter. On a USB stick, it might, because the disk access is slower on a USB stick.
Depending on the quality of the stick, it can be much slower.

For testing purposes, perhaps create a smaller pupsave (1 Gb or even 768 Mb
should be more than enough for now).

If you prefer ready-made pupsave files to save you some time and trouble, I have
made available a set of them here. There are instructions on that thread
about how to unpack them and rename them properly for your Pup.

Once you have your new smaller pupsave in place, reboot and choose IT instead
of your old one. (Your Pup will boot a bit differently this time. Puppy presents a
console menu if you have more than one pupsave file, to let you choose. Type the
number of the smaller one and hit < Enter >.)

Then come back here and tell us what happened? I'm eager to hear.

Bye for now.

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musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

Last edited by musher0 on Thu 03 Mar 2016, 09:54; edited 1 time in total
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 3721
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb 2016, 11:43    Post subject: FatDog = SlowDog  

The screenshot shows Fatdog64-702 installed to the hard drive of my dual core lenovo desktop pc.
fatdog64.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   117.13 KB
 Viewed   463 Time(s)

fatdog64.jpg

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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 908
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb 2016, 13:09    Post subject: Re: FatDog = SlowDog
Subject description: htop
 

musher0 (in part) wrote:
But I have lots of experience with Puppies generally, and off the top of my head:
* locate the program "htop" in your menu and open it.

This program is a process monitor, it shows the active processes.

Look at the 3-4 lines at the top of the listing. Notice the columns:
CPU%, MEM%, TIME and Command.
Now under Command : who's the biggest bugger? Smile
Oh, musher0.
Thank you. I'd known of htop, but not really understood it.
So do those columns indicate which programs are consuming a lot of memory etc?
And that may be a guide to which to stop? Or are there ways to make programs become "inactive" until needed?

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Dell E6410: BusterPup, BionicPup64, Xenial, etc
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P
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Semme


Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 8427
Location: World_Hub

PostPosted: Mon 29 Feb 2016, 15:59    Post subject:  

X, are you waiting for a dev comment, or are you in the process of making a smaller save file?
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 15041
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar 2016, 10:24    Post subject: Re: FatDog = SlowDog
Subject description: htop
 

sheldonisaac wrote:
musher0 (in part) wrote:
But I have lots of experience with Puppies generally, and off the top of my head:
* locate the program "htop" in your menu and open it.

This program is a process monitor, it shows the active processes.

Look at the 3-4 lines at the top of the listing. Notice the columns:
CPU%, MEM%, TIME and Command.
Now under Command : who's the biggest bugger? Smile
Oh, musher0.
Thank you. I'd known of htop, but not really understood it.
So do those columns indicate which programs are consuming a lot of memory etc?
And that may be a guide to which to stop? Or are there ways to make programs become "inactive" until needed?
Hi, Sheldon.

Yes htop can be used as a guide to which program to stop. But you need to know
what you are doing. If you stop certain programs in that list, your Puppy will
freeze.

Using BillToo's illustration above as an example, he can stop deadbeef using htop
without creating an incident. Deadbeef is a music player, his song will stop playing
and that's it, no harm done.

However, some other executables in the htop list are essential to running your
Puppy. Stop them and you'll be hanging in mid-air, you'll have to re-boot your
machine.

Which is why I asked you above to provide a screen capture of htop so we can
better help you.

Speaking of reboot: have you tried rebooting from CD and typing
Code:
puppy pfix=ram
at the initial prompt?

Once on the desktop, choose your language and time parameters, etc., among
those offered (as usual on a FIRSTRUN). Then try some programs, I don't know,
any program: gnumeric -- and try adding 2+2, or open the geany editor and type
something silly. Or launch a game and play for a couple of minutes.

Is your Puppy still slow doing the above?

And on the way out of your session, don't forget to create a new pupsave of,
say, the suggested 512M.

Now reboot your FatDog again and load the smaller pupsave. Again, try some
programs: gnumeric, the geany editor or a game, whatever.

Is your Puppy still slow?

Try this and come back? TIA.

Your reports on those two short sessions will tell us a lot.

BFN.

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~~~~~~~~~~
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 908
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar 2016, 10:54    Post subject: htop  

musher0 wrote:
Which is why I asked you above to provide a screen capture of htop so we can
better help you.

I think you'd been advising userxbw ?

I hardly ever use FatDog. My computer use is primarily Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.7, the SuperLuPu 2 from rerwin, on this Dell E6410.
Quote:

Speaking of reboot: have you tried rebooting from CD and typing Code: puppy pfix=ram
...
Is your Puppy still slow?
Try this and come back?
Your reports on those two short sessions will tell us a lot.

Thanks a lot, musher0; I will try those experiments, so that I can learn.

In my recollection, the Puppys I use do not seem slow.

Maybe I should not have asked about htop in this fatdog thread, sorry.

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Dell E6410: BusterPup, BionicPup64, Xenial, etc
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 2820
Location: South Australia :-(

PostPosted: Thu 03 Mar 2016, 20:36    Post subject:  

userxbw, which version of Fatdog are you using?

I agree with previous comments regarding a 28G save file, it's way too big. If you want to use the entire drive then use the save to directory option rather than a save file.

You may also find that your usb is not really as large as specified. There are many large usb flash drives advertised as 32/64/128G when in fact they may be as small as 8G.

The other reason may be a faulty flash drive.

Try booting without a savefile and see how it performs.

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 04 Mar 2016, 14:26    Post subject: Another alternative to a 28 GB SaveFile  

Hi userxbw,

I agree with the assessment by musher0, sheldonisaac and smokey01 that having a 28 Gb SaveFile is the probable cause of FatDog's lack of responsiveness. I can appreciate your desire to enable your FatDog to use the entire USB-Stick. And replacing your SaveFile with a SaveFolder as smokey01 suggest is one way to accomplish that.

But there are several reasons I still prefer SaveFiles to SaveFolders. I always run Puppies in PupMode 13 without an Automatic Save so as not to "preserve" junk I may have picked up while surfing the internet; so that I can test applications without actually installing them; because, I believe, some additional degree of security is provided by the fact that the contents of a SaveFile can only be modified after "decompression" while the contents of a SaveFolder are already decompressed; and because mikeb has adivised that when SaveFolder's are used in conjunction with Pupmode 13 “you would lose all that space for working in since you are limited to ram size minus system needs which sort of defeats the main point of the exercise with only the apparent gain of reducing flash writes IF on flash (which may only have been of value in the early days of flash memory) “ http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=809995&sid=9fc721381c8661644b897146b3a44f67#809995 . Do read the entire thread –one page.

Despite my continued use of a SaveFile, any of my Pups have easy access to the entire USB-Stick on which I may place them. Since all Pups run as "root" --that is with Administrative privileges-- their access to any media is automatic. Any application running under a Pup also has access to any media – in your case, the entire USB-Stick and any partition/drive of the computer into which it was plugged; and any CD/DVD you've loaded into a CD/DVD-Rom.

As examples, if you are using Abiword to write a document or Avidemux to edit a video-clip, it doesn't matter where those data-files are stored: opened-from or written to. Those programs, themselves, running under any Pup can read-from or write-to any media.

The catch is that under any Linux operating system, applications are constructed to initially read-from and write to your Home Folder. Under Puppies using a SaveFile, your Home Folder is within your SaveFile. Since Puppies initially only “write to Random Access Memory”, if you keep documents in your SaveFile, then periodically or at shutdown Puppy must write what is in RAM to the SaveFile in order to preserve “changes”. This, of course, take time –your experience of lack of responsiveness. But it also creates the risk that if you have a power failure or surge while the Save is taking place the “changes” will be lost and your SaveFile corrupted.

The easy way to avoid this is NEVER SAVE DATA within your SAVEFILE.

By default, however, if you do not store documents in your SaveFile, you have to wade thru the file structure to open-from/write to other locations. The easy way to avoid that is to create a symlink between your Home Folder and the location where you want to store your data-files.

On a USB-Key, using a “stock” FatDog, open two rox-windows: one to your Home Folder and one to your Home Partition. You Home Partition is the drive or partition where your SaveFile is located. Right-click an empty space on your Home Partition and select “New > Directory”. Give it a name, such as “my-stuff” --without the quotes. Place your mouse-cursor on the my-stuff folder; press and hold the left-mouse button. Then drag and drop my-stuff folder into the Home Folder on the other rox-window. Release the mouse-button and select Link(relative).

May require that your Home Partition be formatted as Linux --not Fat32 or NTFS.

Although physically located outside your SaveFile, Puppy and every application running under it will “see” my-stuff as being within your SaveFile – the first location from which to open-from or write to.

You can create as many other folders as you like within my-stuff, or repeat the above process to create other folders –e.g., my-videos, my-notes, my-music-- on your Home Partition and symlink them into your Home Folder.

I suggest that you read the following two threads on the USER's Subforum–you can start at their ends for the latest information and work backwards: Keep your SaveFile slim and healthy and Remove automatic pupsave from frugal installs.

Saving data-file changes takes only as long as is needed by the program which creates/modifies them. With data-file changes being saved by applications, the only times you'll actually have to preform a SAVE is (a) when setting up or changing application settings; (b) installing a new application; or (c ) setting an SFS to load on bootup or removing that setting.

When a Frugal Pup boots, it copies into RAM parts of your applications and creates in RAM links to where the rest of those applications are located. So, how quickly it can do that will depend on the number of applications your system runs. But the time a Pup takes to shutdown is only dependent on how much it has to write to your SaveFile. On my computers, it take about 1 second after I click “No Save”.

Further, with a small SaveFile, you can also create on your Home Partition a “protect folder”, two layers below the root of the drive, where on bootup Pup's won't look for SaveFiles to use. Having booted “pfix=ram”, from time to time you can copy your SaveFile into that folder. If anything ever goes wrong, you won't have to start from scratch. Just again boot “pfix=ram”, delete your problem SaveFile and copy your “protected SaveFile” into the location of the formerly active SaveFile.

mikesLr
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 15041
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 06 Mar 2016, 11:26    Post subject:  

@sheldonisaac

You wrote:
> I think you'd been advising userxbw ?

Yes, I thought I was. Sorry for the confusion.
Please forgive me if I ruffled any feathers.

About your comment on htop, don't worry about it.
I suggested htop to userxbw in the first place.

BFN.

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