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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
DebianDog64 - 64 bit DebianDog-Jessie
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3606
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jan 2016, 17:23    Post subject:  

Hi
I am sorry, I am not in 64bit today evening and will not restart now. But this picture show my own depot for wine 64 bit made out UBUNTU binaries. I am about certain this would work under Jessie Wink !
Try it!
Good luck
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 11:15    Post subject: Question about the debs shown  

Hi qui,

Thanks for the encouragement. Just have a couple of questions before I spend time cobbling.

By Ubuntu were you referring to Trusty Tahr?

I noticed in your screen-shot that there are 3 debs specifically named wine-something. Did you install all three, one after the other, and if so in what order? --as some later files might over-write earlier files.

I have a hazy recollection of reading somewhere that 64-bit Wine, itself, can run 32-bit programs without the need for some additional 32-bit compatibility layer. But that could be a false memory.

Please double-check my post. The wine implementation has to meet two conditions -- (1) can be run as root; and (2) can run 32-bit programs

Thanks again,

mikesLr
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3606
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 17:31    Post subject:  

Hi Mike

As I don't use Wine since years (this was a great exception: my bank did affirm, it was possible now to enter into the internet banking system with MacOS and Firefox. As MacOS is also something like about Linux, I did only try if I can download and install the bank plugin in Linux. And as the dependencies change actually often because of the use of systemd in new versions, I did install Wine step by step to remember what I did install only to try an only one job, perhaps start a bank plugin to enter using a chip card reader! Nothing to do, it did not go, so I did made no notices at all...), I can't remember which Ubuntu it was. As it is very long time I often use 14.10 and not 14.04 any more, I suppose it was in this case 14.10,

For you, I did try to install the binaries that I have in my striped version of DebianDog64 - Jessie. To much dependencies are to complete in it, see following error message from dpkg (I know that it would be a "cascade" of dependencies more):

I am sorry...

Kind regards
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4481
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 17:31    Post subject:  

Hi Mikeslr.

From what I tested and read (searching the web), I think the only way that works for 32 bit wine apps is to setup a multiarch environment.
According to the Debian documentation, these are the steps:
Code:
dpkg --add-architecture i386
apt-get update
apt-get install wine:i386


Ok, this should work, but it does NOT on DebianDog64 Sad
I found that the reasons are:
- Below error or similar:
Code:
Unpacking libgcc1:i386 (1:4.9.2-10) ...
dpkg: error processing archive /var/cache/apt/archives/libgcc1_1%3a4.9.2-10_i386.deb (--unpack):
 trying to overwrite shared '/usr/share/doc/libgcc1', which is different from other instances of package libgcc1:i386

Remastering Debiandog does "zerosizing" (0 bytes) of files in /usr/share/doc and /usr/share/man to save some space.
The error above is a nasty side-effect, removing all files in there instead of zerosizing makes the install errors go away.

- Package libxml2 in DD-64 is from Ubuntu and prevents installing some dependencies of wine:i386.
Should be fixed in next iso release.

So here's what I did to make it work to install wine32:

Code:
# Install debian version of package libxml2
apt-get install libxml2=2.9.1+dfsg1-5+deb8u1
dpkg --add-architecture i386
apt-get update

# Remove 0 byte files
find /usr/share/doc -type f -exec rm -f {} \;
find /usr/share/man -type f -exec rm -f {} \;

# <<<After next operation, 267 MB of additional disk space will be used.>>>
apt-get install wine:i386


Disappointing is that Wine doesn't appear in the menu, maybe I will change to different menu in next iso.

Wine should work as root, I just tested.
It will complain when the prefix folder e.g. ~/.wine is not owned by the current user.

Edit: You could also install wine64 besides wine32 to have the choice between 64 and 32.
Do a google search for e.g. "debian 64 bit wine run 32" how to do it.
Basically comes down to create ~/.wine64 and ~/.wine32 with the "WINEARCH' env variable.

Fred

Last edited by fredx181 on Fri 15 Jan 2016, 18:18; edited 1 time in total
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 18:14    Post subject: Wine Menus  

Hi Fred & Qui

Thanks Fred for the recipe. I haven't tried it yet. And thanks Qui for trying.

The absence of menus is a frequent occurrence with Wine installs, especially when you start with either debian or Ubuntu debs to build applications for "Pups". I'm not even sure that version2013 includes them in every build.

As I try to avoid "reinventing wheels" I "flinch" them from some pet or Pup already running wine where their desktop files appear in /usr/share/applications/ and copy them into the SFS or pet I'm building. I Usually build SFSes to test keeping the workfolder until done. Wine's executables are on the path so little has to be changed in the desktop files being added.

mikesLr

P.S Ran across a Ubuntu post indicating there is a way to run 32-bit Apps under 64-bit wine. Bookmarked on a different computer. I'll post a link to it later. Don't know how to implement it under Pups.

p.s.s. I don't know if debiandogs already have a utility like gnewpet, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=75437. If not, something like it might be worth considering. With synaptic's greater functionality than PPM, repos of pets and sfses aren't as necessary. But they are convenient if you want to put together another DD including some, but not all, installed applications.
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4481
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 18:30    Post subject:  

mikeslr wrote:
P.S Ran across a Ubuntu post indicating there is a way to run 32-bit Apps under 64-bit wine. Bookmarked on a different computer. I'll post a link to it later. Don't know how to implement it under Pups.


Ubuntu is not Debian.
DebianDog is (very close to) Debian.
I read also about this subject in Ubuntu posts and it seems sort of default included both 64 and 32 bit when installing wine
For Debiandog better read documentation for Debian.
See also Edit in my previous post.

I just tested a lot and couldn't get it to work installing 32 bit windows apps having 64 bit wine installed.

Fred
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 15 Jan 2016, 20:55    Post subject: Frankly I prefer 32-bit Wine  

Hi Fred,

Well, I said I'd provide a link to the post so here it is: http://askubuntu.com/questions/177192/how-do-i-create-a-32-bit-wine-prefix.

But frankly, even if it were translatable to debiandogs, or creating both ~/.wine64 and ~/.wine32 folder using the "WINEARCH' env variable were to be implemented one ends up with a complicated and probably unnecessary structure for little gain. [Note, I admit that I am guessing and don't really know what I'm talking about. There's a difference between parroting words and understanding them. Somewhere in between lies sufficient appreciation to guess].

Complicated in that a user couldn't just "click" an XP setup file. Somehow a structure with GUI would have to be included to distinguish into which wine folder the program would be installed, and which "wine" would be executed when running the program was desired. I should note that PlayOnLinux is designed to make such distinctions --run multiple instances of wine-- and, I believe, is mostly a bash-script.

Unnecessary in that, as far as I know, there are really very few 64-bit XP applications a Linux user might want. Wine does not run Window7+ programs. For a good part of the time XP was "supported" it was a 32-bit system, and for all its "supported" existence the vast majority of consumers ran 32-bit XPs. By the time 64bit XP OSes gained some popularity and 64bit Programs were produced for them, Linux had progressed to the point were equivalent applications were available. The programs --whether sold commercially or available as freeware-- a former XP user might want to utilize under wine is far more likely to be a 32-bit program. At any rate, all mine are, including one "essential,"

Thanks again for your effort toward making that possible.

mikesLr
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version2013

Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Posts: 504
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan 2016, 01:38    Post subject: wine menu entries  

I have been placing the wine menu entries in a separate dotpet, 'wine_extras-v2.pet'.
[reference post]

This post has links to menu entry utilities that my be useful.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan 2016, 15:55    Post subject: Version2013's Wine-Menus AKA wine_extras-v2.pet  

Hi Fred & All,

As he noted, Version2013's pet containing Wine Menus is called wine_extras-v2.pet. It took me some time to locate the site from which it could be downloaded. So I figured I'd save others interested from spending their own time. It's found here: http://lilfile.com/j9oqqs

mikesLr
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 16 Jan 2016, 21:54    Post subject: 32-bit Wine in DebianDog64  

Hi Fred,

Just a note to thank you for your clear instructions @ http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=881963#881963

By following them, I appear to have successfully installed 32-bit Wine into DebianDog64-Jessie. After the installation I typed "wine winefile" in a terminal. Wine first ran wineconfig, suggested that Mono be installed, I OK'd that, it downloaded Mono and then opened Wine's Filemanger.

My next step is to explore the "menu-situation". I can easily create menus but would prefer to create a pet or deb I can use again. And I'm intrigued by Aroglance's WinUtil 1,4, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=102332. So I'll take this as an opportunity to learn more about the differences between Pups and debiandogs, and the tools you've created for debiandogs.

By the way, I may be wrong, but the applications your instructions installed do not appear to be specific to wine. So I wondered to what extent they may have created an environment under which other 32-bit applications might be run.

At any rate, thank you very much for the time and effort you put into my interest.

mikesLr
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4481
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan 2016, 13:50    Post subject: Re: 32-bit Wine in DebianDog64  

Hi Mike

Quote:
By the way, I may be wrong, but the applications your instructions installed do not appear to be specific to wine

Yes, they are to setup the 32 bit environment.

Btw, I didn't test but you could try this maybe to set up a smaller i386 environment as base from where you can use Shinobar's portable wine.
This instead of installing wine from Debian repository (as it's huge)
Code:
# Install debian version of package libxml2, needed because of mistake I made in current iso release.
apt-get install libxml2=2.9.1+dfsg1-5+deb8u1
dpkg --add-architecture i386
apt-get update

# Remove 0 byte files, should be fixed in next iso, including it in remaster script.
find /usr/share/doc -type f -exec rm -f {} \;
find /usr/share/man -type f -exec rm -f {} \;

# Installing below might be enough to run most 32 bit wine applications, but probably not all.
apt-get install libsm6:i386 libfreetype6:i386 libxext6:i386 libxrender1:i386 libasound2:i386


I made some time ago a few portable wine apps, they all run after doing above, see in here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kja9tgqwvbxfu44/AACdwXdZsAA58pHcC8N3qigta?dl=0
Extract and run script in folder e.g. foobar2000

Fred
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 3606
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) - 3 PC's: DELL SX280 750 MB Pentium4, Acer emachines 2 GB AMD64. DELL XPS15

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jan 2016, 18:33    Post subject:  

Is there a way known to downgrade the 64 version to wheezy (because of the compatibility mode 32 bit)?
did some one already do that?
pls also read: the third-party software which is unaware of multi-arch as implemented in Debian! so the most easy way would be to return to wheezy and try to install software with higher level on it pining it alt. try to use some good already existing puppy-*.sfs's Rolling Eyes ... (over that: the "thing" with adobe AIR is also very interesting...)
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4481
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jan 2016, 18:10    Post subject:  

oui wrote:
Is there a way known to downgrade the 64 version to wheezy (because of the compatibility mode 32 bit)?


According to what's described here, it's possible with official Debian:
https://ispire.me/downgrade-from-debian-sid-to-stable-from-jessie-to-wheezy/

I was curious and made an attempt at downgrading, got very far but in the end there were still a lot of packages left over from Jessie.
I think the point is that there doesn't exist a custom DD-64 repository for wheezy, I mean that most of the packages installed from the DD-64-Jessie (custom dropbox) repository are compiled (or packed otherwise) with dependencies for Jessie.
So maybe the only way is to remove all these custom packages first, disable the DD-64-Jessie repository in /etc/apt/sources.list and then start the downgrading process.
I didn't do that, resulting in a mess (a mixture that's probably going to be broken completely in time). I gave up...
I guess that even if you do all by the rules, there could still be a lot of issues:
For example, at first X wouldn't start (/usr/bin/X not found) so I figured that "xserver-xorg" needed to be installed again (was somehow removed during the process of downgrading).
Good luck if you want to try, tricky stuff!!

Fred
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 3913
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jan 2016, 20:49    Post subject: Portable Wine in DebianDog64  

Hi fredx181,

Thanks again. Your instructions regarding the installation of portable-wine, a 32-bit application, into DebianDog64 worked. As you suggested, some programs I tried to install functioned successfully; some didn't. But fortunately, the ones I most often use did.

One thing about portable-wine I mentioned before (maybe not on this thread) is that included within its installation is winetricks. Installation of wine via apt did not include it.

Winetricks, itself, is just a script. So, I'll see if copying it into its proper place on the other computer, where I installed wine via apt, will be sufficient. My recollection, however, is that when I've attempted that in other instances when wine didn't include it, when trying to run winetricks I received a message about a dll missing from wine's /system32.

I wondered if there might be a way of installing it via apt or synaptic.

As I mentioned to Toni when I began to explore DebianDogs, I've got a lot to learn. Smile I guess Apt is among them.

Thanks, again,

mikesLr
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version2013

Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Posts: 504
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jan 2016, 22:59    Post subject: Re: Portable Wine in DebianDog64
Subject description: winetricks
 

mikeslr wrote:

Winetricks, itself, is just a script. So, I'll see if copying it into its proper place on the other computer, where I installed wine via apt, will be sufficient. My recollection, however, is that when I've attempted that in other instances when wine didn't include it, when trying to run winetricks I received a message about a dll missing from wine's /system32.

mikesLr


From my experience with winetricks, I do not recall getting an error message about a missing dll when trying to run winetricks.

I basically download winetricks, give it execute permissions, place it in /usr/sbin/.
Run it via command "winetricks --help" or "winetricks" if zenity is installed.
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