Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Sun 24 Jul 2016, 18:31
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Download, install and USB is confusing...
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 3 [32 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Author Message
Salty-san

Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 10:15    Post subject:  Download, install and USB is confusing...  

Been meaning to get into lightweight distros for a while and I need to work on some old comps too and I just heard many things about Puppy. Also looking to recover some datas and such...

But right off the bat it's really weird. I mean I know the official sites but all the Pup versions, which to try, which to us eand ilbido download page is confusing. At first I thought the .pet were the distros but seems not. I see the .iso files, but I tried making one before and it failed to boot. I used Rufus.

So the download page is pretty confusing, not sure what to go for, and where some of the claimed versions are, and how do I make a USB for a live system into an install, if possible. I also have UNetbootin...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1206
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 10:54    Post subject:  

machine specs?

Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Fossil


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 10:55    Post subject:  

Salty-san. Welcome to the forum. Yes, I agree, there is a lot of choice and some areas of downloads do cause confusion. Before we get too far ahead of the objective, can I please ask you a simple series of questions: What are your computer's specifications? All we need to know is processor speed, memory, video and anything else which might be relevant to getting you up and running. Until the computer's speed and memory is known it is very difficult to give any advice on which Puppy can be run; "Old Comp'" could mean anything. Can we assume you have been/are using Windows?
Next, please read the forums 'How-to's' on downloading a Puppy ISO and either burning it to a disc or installing via Unetbootin or a similar loader. If you intend to burn an .ISO to a CD, and you are using Windows, might I suggest you download BurnCDCC as your burner; it has only one function - which prevents any mistakes. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads-free-software.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 1653
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:47    Post subject:  

Hi, Salty-san. And welcome to the kennels.

I see you found your way over here, then. You'll find we're a good deal more informal than the Ubuntu Forums crowd! Not quite such sticklers for propriety, neither, nor everything being 'just so'...

This is the right place to make enquiries about Puppy. Anything you want to know, just ask; the boys & girls on here should be able to help you out.

Back to you, Fossil..!


Mike. Wink

_________________
If the advice given has helped you, please have the courtesy to post back & say 'Thanks!' Wink Laughing
----------------------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Salty-san

Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 13:23    Post subject:  

Right, well I didn't say anything more because I am talking broadly here. First I intend to use it as live and install for different machines maybe so yeah...Secondly, this one old comp I want to test it on first is so old that it needs a small distro it seems, and I can't even get into it to find out its specs...I know it told me at point in Kernel that it has only 189 RAM available. And just one HDD of under 40GB, formatted it in NTFS.

I actually started a topic just for the machine here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2305049 for just about all the details I can get...Oh and hi there, Mike, was writing this before you posted. ;p

Also I can not make a CD/DVD at this point...So just USBs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Fossil


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 16:30    Post subject:  

Salty-san. If the hard drive is formatted as NTFS; are you running Windows on that machine? What variant - '95, '98, XP? If not, is the hard drive empty of any other operating system? Puppy is doable with 198 megs of RAM; but it won't be the newest offering, and it will be a memory squeeze. You mentioned other computers: is there any chance of borrowing a spare memory module to up the overall RAM capacity?
A swap-partition or,failing that a swap-file, might give a little bit of added leeway. More on that later.
Are you sure the USB ports work okay? I'm hoping they are the 2.0 series - the original 1.0's were very slow for a USB boot.
You replied on the Ubuntu forum that you got Hiren's to boot: Was this via USB or a CD? Is the CD functional? If so, would/could anyone burn you a CD of Puppy? This would save a lot of messing around.
Perhaps a two-stage approach would be the best: Get the computer up and running using a very low memory overhead Puppy distro then, once proven as a runner, move on to more recent release.

No doubt Mike will chip-in. Over to you...., Mike! Laughing Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 1408
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 18:31    Post subject:  

Salty-san wrote:
Secondly, this one old comp I want to test it on first is so old that it needs a small distro it seems, and I can't even get into it to find out its specs...I know it told me at point in Kernel that it has only 189 RAM available. And just one HDD of under 40GB, formatted it in NTFS.
...
Also I can not make a CD/DVD at this point...So just USBs.
Emphasis added.

Testing is one thing. Creating either a bootable CD/DVD or USB-key is another. Is the computer which has only 189 RAM the most powerful computer you have to work with? If not, I suggest you use the most powerful computer you can to "burn" a Puppy ISO to a USB-key or CD/DVD and then test that USB-Pup or CD/DVD-Pup on your old computer.

Since you tried rufus, I take it that somehow you have access to a computer which runs Windows, at least the XP version. I've had problems trying to create a bootable USB-Key with rufus. Don't know why. Other's swear by it.

have never had a problem burning an ISO to a USB-stick using LinuxLiveUSB Creator. You'll find it here: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5488-linuxlive-usb-creator.html. You can find a tutorial on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMLSpBdRec

Using LinuxLiveUSB Creator, the only thing you want to be certain about is not to select the wrong “drive” to install to. You don't want LinuxLive to write Puppy to your hard-drive as that will over-write (destroy) your Windows Operating System. Just make a mental note about the size of your USB-Key. Even old computers came with hard-drives which were much larger.

The tutorial is nice, but LinuxLive is pretty self-explanatory:
Select a USB-Key
Select an Operating system to install*
You don't need “persistence” --Puppy has its own system.
I wouldn't check “Hide the Operating System” and unless you wanted to, you don't need “Enable Launching in Windows”. I would check “Format the Key to Fat32”. Best to start with a properly formated Key, free of anything which might now be on it.
Click the “Lightening Bolt” to run it.

The real problem for both of us --you and the guys and gals who try to help you-- is to figure out how to overcome the obstacle of only having 189 Mbs of RAM. As Fossil suggested, it would help if you could add more RAM. But RAM cards aren't interchangeable. One size doesn't fit all. The alternatives, adding a swap-file or a swap-partition, may be involve a little bit of learning how. Even then, they may not be up to the task.

Do you expect that computer to access the internet? And if so, does that computer need to use wireless, or will plugging in an ethernet cable suffice?

I have a couple of systems in mind for even the 189 Mb RAM computer. But none of them are perfect for every activity. So, we'll need some more information.

mikesLr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 1653
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Thu 10 Dec 2015, 21:18    Post subject:  

@Fossil:-

Moi? 'My lips are sealed...' Laughing Laughing

Wouldn't dream of interrupting the master at work...! Very Happy

As you were. Don't mind little ol' me! (*hee,hee*) Anyway, somebody's gotta take over from MikeB; he's left quite a large vacuum behind... Laughing


Mike. Wink
ZipIt!.jpg
 Description   I wouldn't.....would I ??
 Filesize   117.23 KB
 Viewed   403 Time(s)

ZipIt!.jpg


_________________
If the advice given has helped you, please have the courtesy to post back & say 'Thanks!' Wink Laughing
----------------------------------------------------

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Fossil


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 01:58    Post subject:  

@ Mike Walsh.
Quote:
....somebody's gotta take over from MikeB; he's left quite a large vacuum behind... Laughing
Wouldn't happen to be a Dyson, would it? If so, please send around immediately along with a French maid and a feather duster! Wink Embarassed That way I'd be well and tickled, all 'ship-shape and Bristol fashion'! Sorry, British humour! You walked into that one, matey! Rolling Eyes Laughing Arrgh!

And now, back to the topic in hand!
Pirate's parrot.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   10.34 KB
 Viewed   394 Time(s)

Pirate's parrot.jpg

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 02:17    Post subject:  

One thing that helped me to make sure that I got a good iso burn was to burn at the lowest speed possible. I think that on windows, if your system is really sluggish than a faster burn speed might get interrupted by background processes and cause errors. However, as mentioned above, trying a different burn program my be helpful. If you are using windows 8 and above then the windows operating system can burn the iso for you.

The puppylinux wiki mentions two free iso burning programs:
http://puppylinux.com/download/

I haven't tried either of them. I forget which program I used when I burned my first puppy iso.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Salty-san

Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 13:12    Post subject:  

Woah, well thanks for all the nice input guys. Smile)...I guess I was kinda lazy with the details or assuming everyone reads everything so I can for real do this now. I just find it easier to casually open topics sometimes than to go straight into it...

Fossil wrote:
Salty-san. If the hard drive is formatted as NTFS; are you running Windows on that machine? What variant - '95, '98, XP? If not, is the hard drive empty of any other operating system? Puppy is doable with 198 megs of RAM; but it won't be the newest offering, and it will be a memory squeeze. You mentioned other computers: is there any chance of borrowing a spare memory module to up the overall RAM capacity?
A swap-partition or,failing that a swap-file, might give a little bit of added leeway. More on that later.
Are you sure the USB ports work okay? I'm hoping they are the 2.0 series - the original 1.0's were very slow for a USB boot.
You replied on the Ubuntu forum that you got Hiren's to boot: Was this via USB or a CD? Is the CD functional? If so, would/could anyone burn you a CD of Puppy? This would save a lot of messing around.
Perhaps a two-stage approach would be the best: Get the computer up and running using a very low memory overhead Puppy distro then, once proven as a runner, move on to more recent release.

No doubt Mike will chip-in. Over to you...., Mike! Laughing Rolling Eyes


Well first thing first, and to reply to all: obviously I have more machines to work with, but this comp is posing problems purely on a hardware level it seems. I have the tools, just no idea what's wrong with it, hence the post. My plan too was to get anything running on it, OS wise, and then see how far I can upgrade. So far I got nothing <,<...

There were also advices about opening it up and cleaning, reseting RAM and other such maintenance things I have yet to do, I should get on that first. And from then on the details you guys want to know...

It's so old it has a Floppy drive <,<...It was a leftover from company stock like in 2005 or so in this country, so doubt it's pretty high tech. Probably USB 1.0 then, which might be why it causes problems on USB boot and why I got advices about cleaning it?

It had two botched Windows XP installs on it that were corrupted or whatever, it was used like that too and when I got it, and it had some data on it. I saw in it on Hiren...But I later formatted the entire partition NTFS, can do it in any way I want.

So far it only managed to boot on USB into Multi Boots, and from Hiren into Minix XP (with various memory errors while I was in it) and Parted Magic (but I had to use no graphic RAM settings or something, so it was looking really botchy)....But also booted it into Live Win XP USB, those Barte PE enviroments. And that's about it, over 5 types of Linuxes on the other hand failed at Kernel and unpacking mostly. The only thing it could boot into was Damn Small Linux, but I can't do a damn thing with it. Also, it didn't seem able to mount the HDD, which was weird.

I guess I can make CD/DVDs but old desktop doesn't seem able to boot from them anyway. I tried it with a Win XP CD and nothing passed "press key to boot". Reading error or maybe the CD is old however I also tried some linuxi on USB as disc image, and it still didn't boot, so maybe it's something else.

Here is basically my actual problem put simply: I hear Puppy is about 70-190 MB but same size or smaller ones I tried also failed, namely Porteus, TinyCorePlus and Slitaz. And Slitaz was the closest one to booting, saw a tiny mouse, then a black screen, and it was just 50 MB. I'm only approaching Puppy (for this machine at least) because I see it is built from the ground up completely differently and for old machines too, so yeah...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Salty-san

Joined: 10 Dec 2015
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 13:25    Post subject:  

Not liking to double post (and not sure on those rules here) but I like to be thorough and orderly with replies...

mikeslr wrote:


Since you tried rufus, I take it that somehow you have access to a computer which runs Windows, at least the XP version. I've had problems trying to create a bootable USB-Key with rufus. Don't know why. Other's swear by it.

I have never had a problem burning an ISO to a USB-stick using LinuxLiveUSB Creator. You'll find it here: http://www.techspot.com/downloads/5488-linuxlive-usb-creator.html. You can find a tutorial on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMLSpBdRec

Using LinuxLiveUSB Creator, the only thing you want to be certain about is not to select the wrong “drive” to install to. You don't want LinuxLive to write Puppy to your hard-drive as that will over-write (destroy) your Windows Operating System. Just make a mental note about the size of your USB-Key. Even old computers came with hard-drives which were much larger.


The real problem for both of us --you and the guys and gals who try to help you-- is to figure out how to overcome the obstacle of only having 189 Mbs of RAM. As Fossil suggested, it would help if you could add more RAM. But RAM cards aren't interchangeable. One size doesn't fit all. The alternatives, adding a swap-file or a swap-partition, may be involve a little bit of learning how. Even then, they may not be up to the task.

Do you expect that computer to access the internet? And if so, does that computer need to use wireless, or will plugging in an ethernet cable suffice?

I have a couple of systems in mind for even the 189 Mb RAM computer. But none of them are perfect for every activity. So, we'll need some more information.

mikesLr


Honestly I was only using Rufus by default, or reflex if you will, because it's just faster (which I guess is why a lot of people like it) and so far all the Linuxi I put on USB with it ran fine, plus I didn't care for live permanence yet. . But yeah I can get virtually any creator...

I am not however so sure about LiveLiveUSB, I tried it before and I really didn't like it's performance or look (although granted it was on some other old machine somewhere else). UNetbootin seems solid, or I can just make one from another Linux device using the default app or mksub. Randomly formatting your drive sounds like a minus too, another reason why Rufus is streamlined I guess

I have done GParted and linux installs before so a Swap file and partition is no problem, I even expect it. It's just suspicious that even the live enviroments don't boot.

As for Internet, I would like it to have it, can be either cable or pref Wireless, but will be using a (rather modern) USB adapter for it to connect to a router so idk how that will complicate things.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Fossil


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 1044
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 16:05    Post subject:  

Quote:
I hear Puppy is about 70-190 MB but same size or smaller ones I tried also failed, namely Porteus, TinyCorePlus and Slitaz. And Slitaz was the closest one to booting, saw a tiny mouse, then a black screen, and it was just 50 MB.
Honestly, if you can't boot from a 50 Meg disc - and the computer has (we hope!) 189 Megs of RAM, then something is wrong! Perhaps you are on a hiding for nothing! Crying or Very sad
Before I moved over to Puppy I too used to mess around with DSL and it's companion, Feather Linux; both were very nice small distros, but their menu system's were messy, and mounting the hard drive required finding the correct menu item - which took a good search. It's been a long time since then. If I can find a disc I'll give it a go just for 'old times sake'.
Mikeslr's approach is the best one: Choose the best of the best computer you have; get it up and running; then try either cabled or wireless on a good machine, before considering any slow or partially dead offering. At least then you will know with certainty all is functional.
One other thing stands out: Do you know how to set the computer's boot order from the BIOS - that is at the moment of starting up, when the first screen appears?
A floppy drive is no hardship. In the past a boot-floppy was used to start up a boot CD. It's recorded somewhere deep in the How-To's.
Something to think about! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 372

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 17:17    Post subject:  

Salty-san wrote:

It's so old it has a Floppy drive <,<...It was a leftover from company stock like in 2005 or so in this country, so doubt it's pretty high tech. Probably USB 1.0 then, which might be why it causes problems on USB boot and why I got advices about cleaning it?

It had two botched Windows XP installs on it that were corrupted or whatever, it was used like that too and when I got it, and it had some data on it. I saw in it on Hiren...But I later formatted the entire partition NTFS, can do it in any way I want.

So far it only managed to boot on USB into Multi Boots, and from Hiren into Minix XP (with various memory errors while I was in it) and Parted Magic (but I had to use no graphic RAM settings or something, so it was looking really botchy)....But also booted it into Live Win XP USB, those Barte PE enviroments. And that's about it, over 5 types of Linuxes on the other hand failed at Kernel and unpacking mostly. The only thing it could boot into was Damn Small Linux, but I can't do a damn thing with it. Also, it didn't seem able to mount the HDD, which was weird.

I guess I can make CD/DVDs but old desktop doesn't seem able to boot from them anyway. I tried it with a Win XP CD and nothing passed "press key to boot". Reading error or maybe the CD is old however I also tried some linuxi on USB as disc image, and it still didn't boot, so maybe it's something else.


I,m going to recomend Wary 5.5, boot from the CD. Install on USB with universal installer. Run grub and install the boot loader on either the flopy or the hard drive.

If you do 't have a working hard drive You may need the CD for boot. While you can make the USB bootable some older bios have issues with this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6512
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 11 Dec 2015, 17:40    Post subject:  

@Salty-San

Lot's of users are trying to help you. I have a couple of questions based upon your comments thruout this thread you have started.

As I understand thus far, you are on an exploratory and proof of concept. But, you haven't shared what you are expecting to achieve.

Questions
  • You share that you have several PCs for use in your evaluation. But, it seems you have taken one from the very bottom of the heap. Is there a reason for wanting to use that one (you have share that it is deficient in working hardware)?
  • You shared that you are interested in use of Live mode bootings. Do you have other PCs that could be used, even temporarily, for some evaluation(s)? If so, which/what would you test with to get a feel for Puppy Linux?
  • Can you share a little more what you would like to have in your PUPPY use? For example, are you looking to replace an Apple or Window OS and if so, which one?
This may help members to help you, guide you, so that your expectations are matched.

Adding PUPPY Linux to an old-old PC is NOT going to make that PC run "with the wind" of any newer PCs since 2005, when Puppy was first introduced. Further, almost any of those PUPPY Linuxes made available in 2005-2008 will work on the hardware you started trying on this thread. Live mode is typically booted from CD/DVDs created by downloading an ISO from any OS and creating the bootable CD/DVD on a PC which also is capable of booting a CD/DVD.

I think you will find Puppy Linux a wonderful set of services to match any general needs you have. But, to begin, it would be nice to, at least, get you to a point where you will have a comfortable starting experience for you to evaluate. After some evaluation, you can then drop back to testing really old stuff in your evaluations.

Hope this is helpful

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engines or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 3 [32 Posts]   Goto page: 1, 2, 3 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0717s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0035s) ][ GZIP on ]