LxPupSc: Woof-CE, Slackware-Current, LXDE build 13-Jun-2020

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belham2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#1051 Post by belham2 »

peebee wrote:Kernel Release: 4.19.2-lxpup64
Build Date: Wed Nov 14 07:09:09 GMT 2018
Build GCC: 8.2.0
OS Support: GNU/Linux
Architecture: x86_64
SMP Enabled: Yes

'New' config from Fatdog64 (with thanks - inc. rtsx card drivers)
aufs-4.19 released

Gracias, Peebee! :)

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Marv
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Location: SW Wisconsin

#1052 Post by Marv »

peebee wrote:PREVIEW

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... o/download

LxPupSc-18.12T-k64-uefi is moving to the testing branch of woof-ce

Quite a lot of changes so offered as a preview download for testing....
Installed to the Fujitsu S761 i5 laptop in the Experimental directory with upupcc moved up to its own slot, usual Grub4Dos frugal to SSD. First as a pristine boot, then as an update to 18.06 +7 (Savefile scrubbed first).

Code: Select all

System:    Host: puppypc21956 Kernel: 4.19.2-lxpup64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: LXDE (Openbox 3.6.1)
           Distro: LxPup-Sc 18.12
Machine:   Device: laptop System: FUJITSU product: LIFEBOOK S761 serial: R2500459
           Mobo: FUJITSU model: FJNB225 UEFI [Legacy]: FUJITSU // Phoenix v: Version 1.17 date: 03/14/2012
Battery    CMB1: charge: 46.4 Wh 100.0% condition: 46.4/56.0 Wh (83%)
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i5-2520M (-HT-MCP-) speed/max: 1272/3200 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: X.org 1.20.3 drivers: intel (unloaded: modesetting,vesa) FAILED: fbdev
           tty size: 134x32 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network:   Card: Qualcomm Atheros AR9287 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) driver: ath9k
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 280.1GB (19.8% used)
Weather:   Conditions: 28 F (-2 C) - Clear Time: November 21, 8:20 AM PST
Info:      Processes: 154 Uptime: 19 min Memory: 457.6/4788.4MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.8 
Both went well, clean boot, sound, SNS connection, Drive recognition, CPU and mem use at idle, video FPS all good. So far, the only glitch I have is with SSL. Starting Sylpheed in either the pristine or update I get

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# sylpheed
sylpheed: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libsylph-0.so.1: undefined symbol: SSL_library_init
And QtWebBrowser starts ok but on trying to connect (all sites) I get

Code: Select all

Error creating SSL context (error:140A90C4:SSL routines:func(169):reason(196))

When connecting to: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/

Slimjet 20.0.4 run-as-spot from SFS with the shared profile on the data drive is running perfectly.

As an aside, I'm up to date on lxpupsc64, also using the 64b 4.19.2 kernel and upupbb and upupcc, both using the 32b 4.9.134 kernel with no problems to report.

Thanks,
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

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peebee
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#1053 Post by peebee »

Thanks @Marv - that is a bug arising from some differences in the testing branch build sequences....a new version has been uploaded to hopefully squish it.
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

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Marv
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Location: SW Wisconsin

#1054 Post by Marv »

peebee wrote:Thanks @Marv - that is a bug arising from some differences in the testing branch build sequences....a new version has been uploaded to hopefully squish it.
Bug squished. Tested with both fresh and updated installs.

Thanks,
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

belham2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#1055 Post by belham2 »

Hi Peebee,

Sorry about the md5 stuff in your other pup. Get really confused on which are which sometimes.

I am testing the new 18.12T. Everything seems good (except Light as a browser is still terrible, lol).

But upon first boot, when the choices for xorg came up, I made the mistake of not choosing the 5th option of the the "alt. xorg server 1.11.4".

Since I've already created a "savefile" and all, how can I get boot to do this option again, so I can choose the alt. xorg server (the newer xorg, like before, won't let me run redshift and such on my equipment).

Thanks for any hints/tips. (the y, z and f-drv sfses are in the frugal folder, along with main sfs, vmlinuz & initrd.gz)

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peebee
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#1056 Post by peebee »

belham2 wrote:how can I get boot to do this option again, so I can choose the alt. xorg server
Drop out to the terminal and run:

Code: Select all

xorgwizard
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

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Marv
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#1057 Post by Marv »

Installed 18.12T to the Bay Trail desktop

Code: Select all

System:    Host: puppypc21956 Kernel: 4.19.3-lxpup64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: LXDE (Openbox 3.6.1)
           Distro: LxPup-Sc 18.12
Machine:   Device: desktop Mobo: ASRock model: Q1900M serial: M80-44015700338
           UEFI [Legacy]: American Megatrends v: P1.20 date: 03/25/2014
CPU:       Quad core Intel Celeron J1900 (-MCP-) speed/max: 1332/1993 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Atom Processor Z36xxx/Z37xxx Series Graphics & Display
           Display Server: X.org 1.20.3 drivers: intel (unloaded: modesetting,vesa) FAILED: fbdev
           tty size: 134x32 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller driver: r8169
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (19.9% used)
Weather:   Conditions: 42 F (6 C) - Mostly Cloudy Time: November 22, 5:59 PM PST
Info:      Processes: 142 Uptime: 4 min Memory: 179.0/3401.9MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.8 
Moved the frugal install from the i5 laptop, scrubbing savefile wrt sound, SNS connection, flsynclient, xorg, udev, /var/local/xorg_udev to force an xorg setup on boot. The usual. Booted cleanly, correct video resolution and drivers, automatically made wired ethernet connection, sound working, redshiftgui ok, had to use pmount to reestablish mount-on-boot for sda2 (the data drive) as it is EXT4, not EXT2 on this box. This box has an optical drive so both CD and DVD autoplays checked. Just fine, other than the crummy in-monitor speakers :( Sylpheed & Slimjet 20.0.4.0 run-as-spot from SFS are just fine. A little more cruft in Dmesg than on the i5 but can't see any deficits in operation. CPU % with Slimmie minimized just now is 1% or less, I run these boxes with the performance governor, all cores locked at 2GHz, as the whole box dissipates 14W flat out. All in all seems fine. Posting from Slimjet 20.0.4.0.

I migrated the whole updated kennel from the i5 so the current lxpup64, LxPupBionic, upupbb and upupcc also are snuggled up alongside X-Slacko 4.4 on this box. I ran the same checks as above for all the newcomers and have full function from all of them on this hardware. Not enough time on them with this hardware to pick a favorite as they all seem solid.

Update: Nov. 25th. Back on the i5 in the current 18.12T. Still solid and serviceable after a few days use. With the intel_pstate powersave governor running, on the i5 also the CPU % at idle is now at 1%, matching what I get on upupbb & upupcc (same governor, hardware...). First time in a long time I've seen less than 3% on the slackware derivs. Seems 'snappier' also, subjective of course, but now feels the same as the jwm based upupbb & upupcc on this i5.

I only run one desktop and usually on the lappie so I haven't any mouse-scrollwheel experience to speak of.

Cheers,
Last edited by Marv on Sun 25 Nov 2018, 15:46, edited 1 time in total.
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

belham2
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Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#1058 Post by belham2 »

Hi Peebee & all,

Everything so far has been running great on the 18T testing, but one thing has been driving me nuts. The mouse-scroll-wheel switching desktops whenever you accidentally hit it while your mouse is outside a current desktop window.

I've modded all the mouse-bind settings /root/.config/openbox/rc.xml (and lxde-rc.xml) files, but the mouse-scroll-wheel changer pager desktops just keeps going on. I even tried mochi's trick of putting "onroot 4 and onroot 5" in .jwm/personal, and still no luck. The blasted thing refuses to change/die. It's like Chuckie!!!

Here's a pic below, can anyone tell me what the "DESKTOP Pager SETTINGS" do when you right-click on the desktop pager to see this? When I highlight it, click it, nothing happens. Is there some chance there's a setting in there (or somewhere else) that will deactivate this terrible nuisance (by the way?


This mouse-scroll-wheel feature has been almost completely removed from many Linux distros, and other pups, because of the annoyance of it and it's terrible implementation.

Sure wish you'd join, Peebee, and kill this feature off for good, or at least set it to the default of where the mouse-scroll-wheel doesn't do this when accidentally hitting it. If a person wants the other desktop in the pager, we travel down to it and click on that particular desktop in the pager. That's how it should be. We shouldn't be having pager desktop switches be constantly activated if you happen to be outside a desktop window on your current desktop, and, then, suddenly, boom, a slight bump of the mouse-scroll-wheel and it changes the pager to another desktop---where your heart stops a moment because you think you just lost everything.


Thanks for any hints/tips/ about this pic and if there supposed to be something there to help kill this mouse-scroll-wheel changing pager desktops feature:
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peebee
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#1059 Post by peebee »

belham2 wrote:The mouse-scroll-wheel switching desktops whenever
How odd - I have NEVER had that problem....you must a very twitchy mouse :?

Anyway /root/.config/openbox/rc.xml
remove lines 652-661:

Code: Select all

      <mousebind button="Up" action="Click">
        <action name="GoToDesktop">
          <to>previous</to>
        </action>
      </mousebind>
      <mousebind button="Down" action="Click">
        <action name="GoToDesktop">
          <to>next</to>
        </action>
      </mousebind>
then restart window manager
Last edited by peebee on Sat 24 Nov 2018, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

belham2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#1060 Post by belham2 »

peebee wrote:
belham2 wrote:The mouse-scroll-wheel switching desktops whenever
How odd - I have NEVER had that problem....you must a very twitchy mouse :?

Anyway /root/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml
remove lines 652-661:

Code: Select all

      <mousebind button="Up" action="Click">
        <action name="GoToDesktop">
          <to>previous</to>
        </action>
      </mousebind>
      <mousebind button="Down" action="Click">
        <action name="GoToDesktop">
          <to>next</to>
        </action>
      </mousebind>
then restart window manager
Hi Peebee,

Yeah, I had already removed those lines....does nothing, mouse-scroll-wheel still changes the desktop.

That's why I joked and said it is like "Chuckie", it refuses to die/stop.

I am out of options of what to try.....what is that "Desktop Pager Settings" I posted in my previous page? Clicking it does nothing.

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peebee
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#1061 Post by peebee »

belham2 wrote:Yeah, I had already removed those lines....does nothing, mouse-scroll-wheel still changes the desktop.
Did you restart openbox???

Desktop pager is just the tray images of the desktops - but obconf does crash....
obconf[10765]: segfault at 0 ip 00000000f6d8c86e sp 00000000ffe781b0 error 4 in libc-2.28.so[f6d66000+155000]
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

belham2
Posts: 1715
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#1062 Post by belham2 »

peebee wrote:
belham2 wrote:Yeah, I had already removed those lines....does nothing, mouse-scroll-wheel still changes the desktop.
Did you restart openbox???

Desktop pager is just the tray images of the desktops - but obconf does crash....
obconf[10765]: segfault at 0 ip 00000000f6d8c86e sp 00000000ffe781b0 error 4 in libc-2.28.so[f6d66000+155000]

Peebee,

Yes, of course, have restarted openbox, and have even done multiple full shutdowns/restarts, with all references to mouse-bindings (took out everyone related to desktop except for the basics) and still it will not stop.

Chuckie is alive! And he/it is the mouse scroll wheel activating the desktop pager.

What we need is something like Ubuntu/Opensuse and Manjaro have done:

They have a simple box ---- check it (on) or leaving it blank (off) that says:

"___Use the mouse wheel on the desktop to switch workplaces"


Wish I had enough skill to script and/or code this for pup land, or get it forced into the kernel developments that this setting should be, like the biggie distros, set to "off" (not checked).


P.S. Otherwise, this 18.12T runs really good, I can find no major problems with it. Nice work! :wink:

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peebee
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#1063 Post by peebee »

belham2 wrote:the mouse scroll wheel activating the desktop pager.
/root/.config/openbox/rc.xml
remove lines 652-661

note: change of file to edit
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

belham2
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Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2016, 22:47

#1064 Post by belham2 »

[edited]

Thanks for all your hard work and help, Peebee. There's a problem here with 18.12T mouse-binding, imho, and maybe someone else will stumble across it.

Moving on/back to another pup.

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peebee
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LxPupSc-18.12

#1065 Post by peebee »

REUPLOADED 03-dec-2018

LxPupSc-18.12+0-uefi-T-k64 is a 32-bit woof-ce 'testing' branch build with a 64-bit kernel (therefore only compatible with 64-bit capable processors)

LxPupSc-18.12+0-uefi-T-k64.iso {devx} - (devx does not include kernel sources or headers) {kernel 4.19.5-lxpup64 sources}

iso md5 = 4cacd776ad63dfb16f8f5f41ec09e905

Interim delta updates and newer kernels may be available.

Delta from 18.06M is available

- kernel 4.19.5 64-bit built with GCC-8.2.0
(alternative 32-bit kernels 3.16.x 4.4.x 4.9.x & 4.14.x also available - all need firmware in the fdrv)
- Made from Slackware-Current as of Sat Dec 1 03:16:35 UTC 2018
- BUILD_FROM_WOOF='testing;e5271239;2018-12-01 09:44:16 +0800'
- web browser in adrv is light-48.0
- firmware is in fdrv
- alternative fall-back xorg is in ydrv (no need to install unless needed)

**N.B. the 64-bit kernel means that any kernel drivers have to be built in a true 64-bit system - LxPupSc64 with it's own devx is suggested but use the kernel sources above

Woof-CE build repository is: http://smokey01.com/peebee/slackocurrent/

Chromium, Firefox, Palemoon and Seamonkey are in the repository and installable via Internet -> Get Web Browser

The versions of the browsers as of 20-nov-2018 with their md5sums are:
chromium_70.0.3538.102+pepper_31.0.0.153 RUN-AS-SPOT :fbbc7a899132a19a4efdb227003e4992
firefox-63.0.3 :b8bd0a264bdc0c0eb7e5be6771bb6362
palemoon-28.2.1 :278c08e6f086aab10da8667a30b0af23
seamonkey-2.49.4 :58afbe48817271f845dc976edbf8594f
iron, slimjet, vivaldi and min are also available
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Last edited by peebee on Mon 03 Dec 2018, 08:45, edited 3 times in total.
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

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Billtoo
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Re: LxPupSc-18.12

#1066 Post by Billtoo »

peebee wrote:LxPupSc-18.12+0-uefi-T-k64 is a 32-bit woof-ce 'testing' branch build with a 64-bit kernel (therefore only compatible with 64-bit capable processors)

LxPupSc-18.12+0-uefi-T-k64.iso {devx} - (devx does not include kernel sources or headers) {kernel 4.19.5-lxpup64 sources}

iso md5 = 95ab60d0b09030c5e9a6c11083254fcb

Interim delta updates and newer kernels may be available.

Delta from 18.06M is available

- kernel 4.19.5 64-bit built with GCC-8.2.0
(alternative 32-bit kernels 3.16.x 4.4.x 4.9.x & 4.14.x also available - all need firmware in the fdrv)
- Made from Slackware-Current as of Sat Dec 1 03:16:35 UTC 2018
- BUILD_FROM_WOOF='testing;e5271239;2018-12-01 09:44:16 +0800'
- web browser in adrv is light-48.0
- firmware is in fdrv
- alternative fall-back xorg is in ydrv (no need to install unless needed)

**N.B. the 64-bit kernel means that any kernel drivers have to be built in a true 64-bit system - LxPupSc64 with it's own devx is suggested but use the kernel sources above

Woof-CE build repository is: http://smokey01.com/peebee/slackocurrent/

Chromium, Firefox, Palemoon and Seamonkey are in the repository and installable via Internet -> Get Web Browser

The versions of the browsers as of 20-nov-2018 with their md5sums are:
chromium_70.0.3538.102+pepper_31.0.0.153 RUN-AS-SPOT :fbbc7a899132a19a4efdb227003e4992
firefox-63.0.3 :b8bd0a264bdc0c0eb7e5be6771bb6362
palemoon-28.2.1 :278c08e6f086aab10da8667a30b0af23
seamonkey-2.49.4 :58afbe48817271f845dc976edbf8594f
iron, slimjet, vivaldi and min are also available

I installed to a usb-3.0 SSD, pc is Compaq Presario:

System: Host: puppypc21146 Kernel: 4.19.5-lxpup64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: LXDE (Openbox 3.6.1)
Distro: LxPup-Sc 18.12
Machine: Device: desktop System: Compaq-Presario product: AU194AA-A2L CQ5123F serial: MXX9300M0F
Mobo: MSI model: Boston v: 1.0 BIOS: Phoenix v: 5.24 date: 06/19/2009
CPU: Dual core Pentium E5200 (-MCP-) speed/max: 1199/2500 MHz
Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] RV530 [Radeon X1600 PRO]
Display Server: X.org 1.20.3 driver: radeon tty size: 162x20 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network: Card: Realtek RTL810xE PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller driver: r8169
Drives: HDD Total Size: 626.4GB (0.8% used)
Weather: Conditions: 30 F (-1 C) - Mostly Cloudy Time: December 1, 10:00 AM EST
Info: Processes: 120 Uptime: 16 min Memory: 240.4/3946.5MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.8

Basic setup + getting Firefox and setting it up went well.
That's it so far, will try it out more now.
Thanks.
----------------------------------
EDIT: was able to add Smplayer/Smtube,Kpat,Midnight Commander, no luck with VLC error about h264,no luck with Kodi.
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peebee
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#1067 Post by peebee »

Kernel Release: 4.19.6-lxpup64
Build Date: Sun Dec 2 07:34:59 GMT 2018
Build GCC: 8.2.0
OS Support: GNU/Linux
Architecture: x86_64
SMP Enabled: Yes

From Here
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

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Marv
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#1068 Post by Marv »

peebee wrote:Kernel Release: 4.19.6-lxpup64
Build Date: Sun Dec 2 07:34:59 GMT 2018
Build GCC: 8.2.0
OS Support: GNU/Linux
Architecture: x86_64
SMP Enabled: Yes

From Here
Swapped into both the current lxpupsc64 (18.06.13) and the current LxPupSc on the i5 laptop:

Code: Select all

System:    Host: puppypc21956 Kernel: 4.19.6-lxpup64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop: LXDE (Openbox 3.6.1)
           Distro: LxPup-Sc 18.12
Machine:   Device: laptop System: FUJITSU product: LIFEBOOK S761 serial: R2500459
           Mobo: FUJITSU model: FJNB225
           UEFI [Legacy]: FUJITSU // Phoenix v: Version 1.17 date: 03/14/2012
Battery    CMB1: charge: 46.4 Wh 100.0% condition: 46.4/56.0 Wh (83%)
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i5-2520M (-HT-MCP-) speed/max: 867/3200 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller
           Display Server: X.org 1.20.3 drivers: intel (unloaded: modesetting,vesa) FAILED: fbdev
           tty size: 107x26 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Network:   Card: Qualcomm Atheros AR9287 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) driver: ath9k
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 120.0GB (39.6% used)
Weather:   Conditions: 37 F (3 C) - Overcast Time: December 2, 9:29 AM PST
Info:      Processes: 161 Uptime: 5 min Memory: 304.4/4788.4MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 2.3.8 
Boot, Dmesg, video FPS, CPU and mem use at idle, sound, redshiftgui, Sylpheed and Simmie 20.0.4.0, overall perceived performance unchanged from the 4.19.5 kernel on both. I now have absolutely no reason to run any governor other than the default intel_pstate powersave on the i5 laptop. That transition has been gradual but the balance seemed to tilt roughly around the 4.19 kernel for me. Continuing to use LxPupSc as the daily here and I'll squawk if I see anything but so far nothing at all noted.

Update: Updated Slimjet 20.0.4.0 to 21.0.3.0 using peebees slimjet_lxsc_spot_21.0.3.0.sfs. So far, just in the current LxPupSc 18.12T. It accepts the shared profile from 20.0.4.0 with no nags (profile format did change between the 18.x and 19.x versions) and runs my weather loops correctly (a problem from 18.0.5.0 to 20.0.4.0). As above, I'll run with it and see.

Cheers,
Last edited by Marv on Mon 03 Dec 2018, 14:51, edited 1 time in total.
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

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peebee
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18.12+0 re-uploaded

#1069 Post by peebee »

Sorry folks - there was a woof-ce problem with umount which now has a fix.

18.12+0 is re-uploaded with md5 4cacd776ad63dfb16f8f5f41ec09e905

If you downloaded the version with md5 95ab60d0b09030c5e9a6c11083254fcb
then rename it to 18.12+A and apply this delta
ImageLxPup = Puppy + LXDE
Main version used daily: LxPupSc; Assembler of UPups, ScPup & ScPup64, LxPup, LxPupSc & LxPupSc64

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Marv
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Location: SW Wisconsin

Re: 18.12+0 re-uploaded

#1070 Post by Marv »

peebee wrote:Sorry folks - there was a woof-ce problem with umount which now has a fix.
18.12+0 downloaded and applied. md5sum correct. Just out of curiosity, how did that problem manifest? I mounted and unmounted my data drive and external drives (EXT2) on the several pre-0 test versions and didn't see anything.

Thanks,
Pups currently in kennel :D Older LxPupSc and X-slacko-4.4 for my users; LxPupSc, LxPupSc64 and upupEF for me. All good pups indeed, and all running savefiles for look'n'feel only. Browsers, etc. solely from SFS.

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