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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
NTFS partitions changed to read only from writable (Solved)
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retry3

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Sun 25 Oct 2015, 14:23    Post subject:  NTFS partitions changed to read only from writable (Solved)
Subject description: change to "read only" happened somehow - how to write again?
 

First, Thanks to all the helpers here - I have l learned (and forgotten) much from their explanations - appreciated.

Second, I am probably older and slower than user "dumbdog" ; need advice in very elementary form.

Problem: when I try to add files to my sda5 drive, it gives me the "file system is read only" message; this started about a month ago, and I had done nothing to my knowledge to cause this. I was able to add files with no trouble back then.

I have researched as best I can, mainly with google, but don't understand most of it.

I will try to attach a couple of screen shots in the hope that there may be a clue for a helper.[img][/img]

I am running precise pup and tahirpup frugals; WindowsXP is still on the HD.

I am really lost on this, any help appreciated.

Regards,
retry3
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11916
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 25 Oct 2015, 18:58    Post subject:  

I don't know the answer to your question but I have one of my own: what happened to sda3 and sda4?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7507
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 25 Oct 2015, 19:35    Post subject:  

sda5 is formatted ntfs.

NTFS is a Windows format.

Puppy uses a special program to read and write to this format.
If this program detects anything wrong, anything, it will only allow reading from the NTFS formatted device.

The only real way to fix problems with a NTFS format is to use Windows chkdsk and defrag programs.
These programs are in any version of Windows.
They usually will correct any problems in the NTFS file system.

You have to run these from a running version of Windows or a Windows recovery disk.

Linux does not have repair programs for Windows formats.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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retry3

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Sun 25 Oct 2015, 22:37    Post subject:  

Hey Flash -
Good ol sda4&5 went MIA long time ago, I have no idea what happened, or why. Thanks anyway.

Hey bigpup -
Thanks for the info. I saw your help to the other poster just before me, right after I submitted my post.
I ran WindowsXP Defrag a couple times, but no help. I cant get a console up to run chkdsk and I have no Windows recovery disk.

I notice that when I try to move a file out of sda5, most of the time a file will appear in the target drive, or partition (whatever the correct designation is) even though the dialog box says the file/folder could not be moved,or copied, because of a"read only" error.
I cannot delete them either, even if I manage to get a copy into Trash.

So, do you think that if I manage to get most of the folders duplicated in another place or on a new drive, I could then somehow shrink sda5 to next to nothing or eliminate it; or is that asking for more trouble?

Thanks guys
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mostly_lurking

Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015, 11:33    Post subject:  

Can you boot into Windows? You said you can't run chkdsk from a command prompt (why not?)... XP has a graphical checkdisk program somewhere. (I can't remember where exactly and what it was called - I think it was accessible through one of the start menu's sub-sub-menus. Haven't used XP for a while, sorry.) If I remember correctly, right-clicking on a drive/partition in Windows Explorer also gives an option to check it.

BTW, can you copy your files off the troublesome partition under Windows? It might be a good idea to back up any important stuff before running a disk check, if you can. (I once ran chkdsk on an XP system partition and after it had "fixed" a problem, my printer driver was broken and I had to re-install it...)

Quote:
So, do you think that if I manage to get most of the folders duplicated in another place or on a new drive, I could then somehow shrink sda5 to next to nothing or eliminate it; or is that asking for more trouble?

I guess once you (hopefully) manage to back-up your files, and if you can't get the problem fixed with chkdsk, you can delete that partition, or re-format it, which will erase all data on it and install a new filesystem. That should normally solve problems with a corrupted filesystem, unless it's the hard drive itself that's causing the trouble. Maybe do this from Windows, so that it won't be upset about any changes that happened behind its back.

-----

Oh, and about sda3 and 4 "missing" - that's due to how the HDD is partitioned. A disk can have up to 4 primary partitions, one of which can be an extended partition that can act as a container for multiple logical partitions. The numbers 1-4 are reserved for primary partitions, so numbering for logical partitions starts at 5. In this case, there is one primary (sda1) and one extended (sda2) partition, which contains one logical partition (sda5).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partitioning
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11916
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015, 22:32    Post subject:  

Thank you for clearing that up. Smile
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retry3

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015, 23:11    Post subject:  

Hey "mostly_lurking", thanks -
Using your general guidance, I managed to fumble around in Windows and run something that claimed it cleaned up and compacted and defragmented(again) the files, and also repaired bad sectors and did other good stuff. I think it was the graphical equivalent of chkdsk, but what do I know.
No change, I still get the "read only"dialog box.

I didn't get to drive D in the console because I have forgotten how to change drives; (told you I was old and slow). Will try again tomorrow.

I found a Linuxmint 17.2 disk that I made a month ago and it had no trouble reading and writing to sda5, but I still want to use puppy.

I did a backup of D(sda5) in Windows, as per your advice. I guess I could reformat now, but I have some questions about that, so I will wait.

In regard to sda4&5, I have a general idea of what you said, and will take it as a reason to not worry that something is wrong with my setup. Thanks.

This problem may not be totally solved yet, but it will hold me for awhile.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7507
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 27 Oct 2015, 06:35    Post subject:  

Quote:
I managed to fumble around in Windows and run something that claimed it cleaned up and compacted and defragmented(again) the files, and also repaired bad sectors and did other good stuff. I think it was the graphical equivalent of chkdsk, but what do I know.

Run this program a second time, just to make sure everything is fixed.

From the problems you say it found.
Something in the Puppy files could be now corrupted.
This could be causing your problem.

Could you boot the Puppy frugal install using the boot option puppy pfix=ram.
This boots not using the save file.
See how it accesses sda5 now.
If now OK.
You have problems with the Puppy save file.

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I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2030
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Tue 27 Oct 2015, 12:39    Post subject:  

Run CHKDSK /R in Windows. NTFS still thinks that there is an error on the disk and the Linux NTFS driver will not read it with an error on it.
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retry3

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue 27 Oct 2015, 20:28    Post subject: SOLVED  

Hey Burn_IT, thanks for your interest and advice.

@ ALL - I ran CHKDSK/f/r on the partition and got the message "Windows has checked the file system and found no problems."

I also then followed up on bigpup's lead regarding using pfix=ram vs savefile.
BINGO! the no save file option worked, I was able to read and write to sda5.

It worked in both of the current puppys I use, Precise 5.7.1 and Tahrpup 6.0, BUT I should explain that I have 3 save files in each of the 2 pups. 2 save files in each puppy are small, and one is large.
Using the large savefiles in each pup STILL gives the "read only" message upon mounting sda5.
When I use the 2 small save files, everything is ok, no "read only" message.

From what bigpup wrote, I guess that I have 1 corrupted big savefile and 2 small clean savefiles in each puppy. Seems kinda strange to me that one file in Precise and one file in Tahrpup are corrupted at about the same time. I wonder what I did.

I would mark this problem as SOLVED, if I could figure out how.

Regards and thanks to all.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7507
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct 2015, 01:12    Post subject:  

Go to the first post and add solved to the end of the subject entry.

Quote:
The Windows program repaired bad sectors and did other good stuff.

Bad sectors could cause lots of problems.

Also, fragmented NTFS file system can cause save files to do strange things.
Parts of the save file will be scattered all over the partition, instead of in one location.

It really needs to be a warning.
Before placing a save file on a NTFS or Fat format, run Windows defrag program to make sure the file system is not fragmented.
Now, when you put the save file on the partition, it is all located in one continuous location.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2030
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct 2015, 05:48    Post subject:  

Linux NTFS drivers are not licensed as such and are incapable of correcting file system errors. When I say incapable I don't mean lack of skill, I mean permission because the NTFS system is owned and tightly controlled by Microsoft.
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retry3

Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct 2015, 19:15    Post subject: SOLVED  

I think the problem is that are corrupted Puppysave files in both my Precise and Tahirpup frugal installs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but since the Windows CHKDSK program and the other GUI program reported that there were no bad sectors, and no other problems reported, then it has to be the puppysave files causing the problem.

Thanks to all for the help and education.

I couldn't open the original subject line to add the SOLVED word, but am trying it with this post.
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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 4174
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Wed 28 Oct 2015, 19:35    Post subject:  

Puppy mounts a partition using /bin/mount , which is a wrapper .

I do not know the original code at the moment , but it switches between /bin/mount-FULL and /bin/ntfs-3g .

The wrapper only switches if the "-t ntfs" option is given .


/bin/mount-FULL will always mount ntfs fs a hybrid read-only .

Hybrid meaning it should be allowed to write to existing files,
(usually writing zeros to existing files),
but creating new ones is not permitted .


You may want to try
Code:
mkdir /mnt/sda1
ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1


directly.

Somewhere in mid-Lupu-5xx times ntfs-3g showed a different behaviour than former times .

Puppy-4.3[.1] is buggy elsewhere , but you may want to try it, to check if that mounts ntfs like other distros ( due to older ntfs-3g ) .

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Macpup user since 2010 on full installations.
People who want problems with Puppy boot frugal Razz
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7507
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 29 Oct 2015, 00:44    Post subject:  

You proved puppysave files causing the problem.

What you found wrong with the NTFS file system, the first time you checked it, using Windows dskchk and defrag, is what probably caused the save file problems.

Probably the save files were located in the area of the discovered bad sectors.

Now you know why the first rule of computing is backup, backup, backup Shocked Laughing

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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