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Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 02:52
by Lobster
How do you guys feel about removing the desktop icons?
I prefer selecting programs from a wbar type interface. More access, to more programs with less clutter.
Is the non usage of woof2 far more of an issue? Perhaps . . .
Woof2 allows consistency and a common interface.
However . . .
Perhaps Puppy always includes revolution in its evolution.
I was going to warn about the problems associated with a very non standard Puppy (just in terms of support).
we can drag icons from the menu
Sounds good.
. . . the non-standard in Puppy comes as standard.
By being on a different track
Saluki is on the right track. Bravo.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 04:21
by Geoffrey
I'll support the No application launchers on the desktop vote.
Cairo Dock does it for me.
And jemimah I think your laptop tool deserves a icon that shows in cairo, instead of a ?
Code: Select all
<window title=\"Laptop Tool\" icon-name=\"netbook-pc\">
Desktop look
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 05:21
by mavrothal
I do not really know the real reason/logic behind the traditional puppy desktop look, but one value I see on it is to showcase what this "100MB" distro can do AOB!
Having said that, I find it cumbersome, specially for small screens, since any window will cover almost everything. I also do not like it aesthetically but this is a personal matter.
I usually setup XFCE in small screens with an auto-hide'able applications panel on the top. Instant access from anywhere at no extra resources.
Ideally, Saluki could show the traditional desktop on first boot and offer a setup option to shift to a more modern one i.e. no launchers but only the drivers, home and the trash on the desktop.
If not, go with the clean look. The abilities of puppy are mostly known by now
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 05:57
by magerlab
here's another take with red gtk
clearlooks and zuki blues theme ( which I installed). Zuki blues is red but it does look blue in Lucid
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 09:19
by emil
Think I report a compatibility issue. I was very surprised to find many old T2 packages from puppy 431 working. However when I tried to build the newest "sage" release I run into a problem. Usually sage have built more or less fine on most Puppy versions, however it seems it has become more demanding lately (maybe this is related that they try to fix some issues with the Apple OS).
The programm build fine in slacko. In Saluki the build failed with:
Code: Select all
make[2]: Entering directory `/mnt/sda3/COMPILE/sage-4.8/spkg/build/ecm-6.3.p3/src'
CDPATH="${ZSH_VERSION+.}:" && cd . && /bin/sh /mnt/sda3/COMPILE/sage-4.8/spkg/build/ecm-6.3.p3/src/missing --run aclocal-1.11 -I m4
/mnt/sda3/COMPILE/sage-4.8/spkg/build/ecm-6.3.p3/src/missing: line 52: aclocal-1.11: command not found
I think aclocal is one of the tools that belong to the autoconf group. In saluki there is a slightly older version. Maybe it would be enough to install this autoconv version, but I don't have the time atm to investigate in detail. Would it breake something if the autoconf tools would be upgraded to the latest versions (maybe optional from Package manager)?
Re: Desktop look
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 11:55
by dawg
mavrothal wrote:I do not really know the real reason/logic behind the traditional puppy desktop look, but one value I see on it is to showcase what this "100MB" distro can do AOB!
Having said that, I find it cumbersome, specially for small screens, since any window will cover almost everything. I also do not like it aesthetically but this is a personal matter.
I usually setup XFCE in small screens with an auto-hide'able applications panel on the top. Instant access from anywhere at no extra resources.
Ideally, Saluki could show the traditional desktop on first boot and offer a setup option to shift to a more modern one i.e. no launchers but only the drivers, home and the trash on the desktop.
If not, go with the clean look. The abilities of puppy are mostly known by now
I agree, keep it simple and useful.
I don't know about the rest, but personally, I prefer a
desktop one can actually work on (e.g. Gnome, Windows, etc), as originally intended (I believe).
The traditional Puppy pinboard isn't really all that useful, and it's crowded with apps not everyone needs and/or uses. Keep the apps away in the menu or a bar-type thing where they don't keep distracting the user, and perhaps make them easily "copyable" to the desktop at user's will and -more importantly- choice.
And IMO, once this project is mature, it should be made the flagship Puppy, as it has the core greatness of the original Puppy + a contemporary look&feel! A winner combination
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 14:46
by jemimah
magerlab wrote:here's another take with red gtk
clearlooks and zuki blues theme ( which I installed). Zuki blues is red but it does look blue in Lucid
So at least clearlooks doesn't look like that on my system. Does it look like that in pfix=ram mode? I'm guessing something you did broke it? Please post the contents of your /root/.gtkrc-2.0.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 14:50
by jemimah
emil wrote:Think I report a compatibility issue. I was very surprised to find many old T2 packages from puppy 431 working. However when I tried to build the newest "sage" release I run into a problem. Usually sage have built more or less fine on most Puppy versions, however it seems it has become more demanding lately (maybe this is related that they try to fix some issues with the Apple OS).
The programm build fine in slacko. In Saluki the build failed with:
Code: Select all
make[2]: Entering directory `/mnt/sda3/COMPILE/sage-4.8/spkg/build/ecm-6.3.p3/src'
CDPATH="${ZSH_VERSION+.}:" && cd . && /bin/sh /mnt/sda3/COMPILE/sage-4.8/spkg/build/ecm-6.3.p3/src/missing --run aclocal-1.11 -I m4
/mnt/sda3/COMPILE/sage-4.8/spkg/build/ecm-6.3.p3/src/missing: line 52: aclocal-1.11: command not found
I think aclocal is one of the tools that belong to the autoconf group. In saluki there is a slightly older version. Maybe it would be enough to install this autoconv version, but I don't have the time atm to investigate in detail. Would it breake something if the autoconf tools would be upgraded to the latest versions (maybe optional from Package manager)?
Racy has aclocal-1.10. It's probably easiest to either adjust the makefile, make a symlink from aclocal-1.10 to aclocal-1.11, or if that doesn't work, compile and install aclocal-1.11.
I don't really want to permanently update this type of thing because I want to keep Racy compatibility. If I change to much it's harder to pass bug reports upstream.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 15:39
by emil
I don't really want to permanently update this type of thing because I want to keep Racy compatibility. If I change to much it's harder to pass bug reports upstream.
Ok for me
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 15:48
by jemimah
jemimah wrote:magerlab wrote:here's another take with red gtk
clearlooks and zuki blues theme ( which I installed). Zuki blues is red but it does look blue in Lucid
So at least clearlooks doesn't look like that on my system. Does it look like that in pfix=ram mode? I'm guessing something you did broke it? Please post the contents of your /root/.gtkrc-2.0.
Ok I see that clearlooks does that (for me) only when the window is out of focus. I haven't the foggiest idea why.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 16:10
by Volhout
jemimah wrote:Geoffrey points out to me that since we can drag icons from the menu and control panel to the desktop, there's really no need for icons on the desktop. How do you guys feel about removing the desktop icons?
My vote:
Clean the desktop++ (no icons, user places the ones he needs)
Opera ++ (even an outdated Opera (also has mail) has more functionality than all the dillos' and midoris').
About themes: when I tested, it lookd as if some themes where identical. Maybe not the whole set was in the iso?
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 16:20
by aarf
Volhout wrote:
Opera ++ (even an outdated Opera (also has mail) has more functionality than all the dillos' and midoris').
i wasn't brave enough to say it. I do use midori to browse local files because it starts faster but most of my local files are now .mht and so non midori compatible.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 16:22
by jemimah
Midori is 4MB - Opera is 16MB. Anyway, it's still not up for vote.
I will be trimming down the themes somewhat.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 17:13
by magerlab
i have not done anything with gtkrc file:)
I noticed that only themes of xfce engine in early versions 006 and 007 were without red color. Also i tested some of pixmap themes : sturdust, phacile-blue, gentle-2.0 and polished blue. They look fine but workspaces switcher applet has red color anyway.
Red also appears in some window decorations.
I think gtk look is very important. Sorry if my posts look off topic.
As for the browser i vote for midori and a choice to add any big browser one like
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 18:25
by Sage
Speaking as an ardent Opera user, I am extremely happy to see Midori adopted as the default. Any Puppy can be loaded with the latest Opera, even their alphas, by choosing Deb (other) - if I can do it all the other idiots like me can do it.
Still having a spot of trouble with some machines not executing poweroff from the menu.
XOrg resolution changer still not working from the initial loacalisation panel - needs CTRL-ALT- BKSPCE every time.
Otherwise, rather tasty. And Saluki is pretty good too....
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 19:04
by jemimah
magerlab wrote:i have not done anything with gtkrc file:)
I noticed that only themes of xfce engine in early versions 006 and 007 were without red color. Also i tested some of pixmap themes : sturdust, phacile-blue, gentle-2.0 and polished blue. They look fine but workspaces switcher applet has red color anyway.
Red also appears in some window decorations.
base[ACTIVE] seems the relevant setting.
Code: Select all
base[ACTIVE] = shade (0.9, @selected_bg_color) # "#a69f91" # darker deepsky
Changing it to anything that does not refer to @selected_bg_color gets rid of the red. I can fix it for installed themes - but still don't know why it renders wrong.
It looks to me like a bug in GTK.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 21:11
by smokey01
jemimah, Saluki 08 still won't start with my maximum resolution of 1280x1024.
If I Ctrl+Del+Backspace and run Xorgwizard I can choose 1280x1024 @ 24 bit it will run at the highest resolution.
Seems like the error message is reporting incorrectly.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 21:49
by jemimah
smokey01 wrote:jemimah, Saluki 08 still won't start with my maximum resolution of 1280x1024.
If I Ctrl+Del+Backspace and run Xorgwizard I can choose 1280x1024 @ 24 bit it will run at the highest resolution.
Seems like the error message is reporting incorrectly.
There's not much I can do about this. By booting straight to desktop, we pretty much let Xorg do whatever it feels like. That clearly doesn't work on all hardware, but I think most people want "straight to desktop" to be the default.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 22:14
by smokey01
I agree straight to the desktop is best.
It might be a trap for the unwary but it's pretty easy to fix, and it only has to be done once.
This Dell monitor has always been a bit of a problem with auto to desktop but Micko's Slacko has it sorted and so does Kirks Fatdog64 so I guess it's possible.
Cheers.
Posted: Sat 28 Jan 2012, 22:45
by jemimah
If we updated xorg it might fix it. But that's a lot more effort than is reasonable and probably it would create as many new bugs as it fixes.