Barry's retirement from 'Puppy

[DigitalCrypto]

When you have built a complete linux operating system from the ground up (from scratch) THEN you will be in a position to be a distro lead developer.

Don't go adding bloat to a distro and then call yourself qualified. Anyone can apt-get install whatever the hell they want and copy some files around. That post you made above is a pure shitty insult to those of us that ARE qualified Ttuuxxx.

You rode the coat tails from Barry. You road the coat tails from Big Bass. Hell I even helped you get started when you couldn't get X working.

I didn't believe it when people told me how f...ing arrogant you are and here you go and type the whole shitty thing up yourself.

I'm out with BK. Good luck getting people to "work for you" ass.

[MU]

yes, a repo would be good.
I still see no reason, why t2 is better than a Slackware based solution, but just try out, how the feedback will be.
Myself, I prefer keeping up to date with Slackware (Gnomeslack), so Muppy will make use/contribute only very little bit to the repo.
But I'll continue to post my scripts and sources to the forum, so people who like, can add them to the repo.
Maybe once it is set up, I also will use it actively.

One big chance I see by a comunity-repo is, that now more localization patches might be commited.

Mark

[cb88]

@mu i agree there that slackware would be a good base but its not like we would be losing anything with T2 they have a pretty decent repo anyhow I think we would start overlapping with nimblex too much if we went the slackware route and there are issues with it too... better to have everything compiled with the same toolchain on the same box IMO

[MU]

In muppy 0084 alpha I replaced glibc, glib, gtk, gcc etc.
So everything I compile is from one chain, except xorg.
I'm happy to see, that there still is great compatibility with Puppy.
I can use programs in Puppy4 from Muppy, and vice versa.
There will come the day though, when the libs will have too different versions, what will cause trouble.
Then Puppy again would fall back in a niche - compatible with itself, but not will one of the mainstream systems.
Barry started to use T2 again, because it should be small and fast.
I currently do not see this advantage.
Puppy 4 is smaller than 3, because lot of stuff was removed, like Tcl/Tk and Gtk1.

Slackware libs are also compiled without heavy dependencies, so a slackware based binary compatibility would not be a step back.

Mark

[ttuuxxx]

removed

[alienjeff]

You need to touch up that brown lipstick, ttuuxxx ...

[Trobin]

Would an OS developed by community work?

[cb88]

@ttuuxxx puppy has never had a leader in the sence you want most likely i would be pro tomhb or canerei taking over the domains as they seem pretty laid back and responsible while in the same sence they care for puppy quite a lot too... ttuuxxx if you want to be a puppy developer then do that don't burden yourself with web administration ....but the fact is that is what you are better qualified for atm (that and direivative building) but you don't seem willing to settle for that

is it so hard to settle for having a community based core and your own derivative seems to me like you should be all over that

[disciple]

Thanks Barry!

My thoughts:
Is anyone here familiar with the development model of any other successful projects? (Particularly a distro or some sort of large comparable project, rather than a single application)
Has anyone had a big part in other successful projects?

I can imagine it being quite hard transitioning to community-based development. I think those of you who are genuinely capable of playing a big part in a development/leadership team need to get together and figure out what sort of model you can work in.

We probably don't have anyone who can take on a "one-man-band" role like Barry has, but in the end, someone does have to make decisions somehow, and someone has to actually put everything together. It seems to me that to work effectively you would either need a "leader", or a small leadership team (that can actually work together ) to do this.

The leadership model doesn't hugely affect those of us (like me) who are on the periphery just testing and reporting bugs and doing very minor development stuff. So I think this needs to be discussed by the people who will actually do it - not by all the random people who've been throwing ideas around.

SVN and bugtrackers and stuff may be important issues, but they are really just minor details compared with the issue of how a project is actually developed and led.

[Sage]

The quality of prose in many of the above contributions would seem to rule out most wannabes. Only Mark has a valid excuse, although he is, at least, intelligible and has plenty of offers to assist with a second language ability that surpasses that of some in their native tongue.

Barry tells us that he can write a book in six months and squeeze 10% royalty out of his publisher. I need guidance from him on where I've been going wrong all these years.

[Lobster]

The loose knit community already exists.

We have many users developing and refining specialized Puppy versions.
With Tronkel working on a stable 3 series
We have versions in many languages.
So puplets are available from the community.

We have a website hosted by Warren (WhoDo), programmed in Drupal by Tom mainly
http://puppylinux.org/
So we have a community website

We have a manual writing team from Oli
and the community of translators
available on the community website

We have community servers run by Eric (Caneri)
assisted by Prithish and HairyWill and from MU (Mark Ulrich)

We have areas of expertise, such as Tempestuous with wifi
We have John Murga hosting the forum assisted in the main by Flash
We have Bruce B and many others offering advice and support

We have successful forks from Hacao, MU (Muppy) and Nathan (Grafpup)

We have software compilers such as Muggins, MU and many others
providing new software
for the community

New software is being written specifically for Puppy by
many of our talented developers including Barry

We have many users reporting back, experiences and ideas

The loose knit community already exists.
Stay loose.

[ttuuxxx]

typo

[DigitalCrypto]

Well You did help me about a year ago with the TV-out function of my video card, which you were not able to actually get working

It's entirely impossible to fix stupid.

[raffy]

Actions by volunteers usually drive a community project. Lobster has been very supportive in this regard, supporting a project leader when a new project is formed (usually with his participation, too). This already happened in 2.15CE. ADD: and Psip.

Chris (cb88) is proposing something, and as far as I know, there are free hosting services for such a source-based project, like sourceforge.net, tuxfamily.org, berlios.de, among others. If he initiates that, then it will mainly require his time and the others can then join him.

Ttuuxxx has been very productive in creating puplets, and am really amazed by the amount of time he devotes to Puppy. It would be good if he applies project management in organizing the community effort, and publish his ideas somewhere (puppylinux.org will be a good place as it has a blog for members).

IMHO, right now we have two industrial-grade puplets (muppy and pclinuxos), and people eager to promote Puppy can offer support to them. (Apologies to other puplet creators who may also have "industrial-grade" puplet, meaning, built for the workplace. Feel free to correct what I wrote here.)

There are many niches (areas of development and/or application) that are waiting for involvement by community members. I guess it is time to organize the puppylinux.org site along such projects, so that people will find it easy to align their efforts.

[ttuuxxx]

removed

[DigitalCrypto]

Troll?

Off with the gloves....

Yesterday I submitted to Barry my offer to take over as the next Leader of Puppy Linux.
I'm well suited for the task, I have a diploma in Web Development Project Management, A Cert IV in network Management, Plus Graphic Design Skills and General Linux Package building, Plus I've done a lot of Puppy Derivatives Probably more than anyone.

Web development? Your website had porn ads on it for 3 months!!!
Network management? Yeah right...you couldn't even filter people from hacking your site.
Graphics design? It shows.
Package handling? Where are all your official Puppy packages? I don't recall Barry saying "Hey thanks for the contribution Jeff" Nope...no blogs that I see. Derivatives ? Loading packages is hardly derivative. If that were the case then there are 7 million Ubuntu derivations out there. They must all be certified to run a distro too.

I know the inner workings of Puppy very well, Plus I'm still young mid 30's and wouldn't have a problem Leading puppy for the next 10yrs+.

If you had a clue you wouldn't dedicate your life to 20 year old hardware for the next 10 years. It's too difficult to support single handed.

On average I spend around 50hrs a week dealing with puppy, Usually building newer Variants, Fixings bugs, or ground breaking trials like running Gnome applications in puppy,

This is probably the single biggest reason your marriage is failing. Gnome and KDE were working well before you got involved.

right now I have 4 users testing a 122MB "Living Water" pre-alpha release that has GnomeSword in it. Plus VLC, a new application called Open Song, and IceWm.

Oh crap we better email Distrowatch and let them know you are on your way to #1 with your um....derivation.

And thats including an untouched 4.0, Probably could of shaved another 12 or so MB off just by removing Gxine and some Gnome Icons.

Honestly...was it headers or libraries that we didn't need to have linked in to support the other pieces? Docs? Oh wait....let's trim the kernel modules!!!

A word of advice...

You may want to seek medical counsel for those delusions of grandeur. You aren't any better than the rest of us here but you are the only one that seems to think so.

[WhoDo]

*sigh* The body is still warm and already they're fighting over the bones! (anon).

I don't really think that any decisions about future directions for Puppy are likely to be made in this forum thread. Barry was simply flagging his intentions; that's all.

A closer read of his blog post will show that Barry is NOT giving up Puppy. The way I read his intentions, he is moving himself into the near background as a developer of mainstream Puppy. I'm glad that means he will still be there contributing as it suits him. Clearly, though, his other interests are taking him in a new direction. Puppy will always be his creation, but now it will be up to the community to raise it to maturity.

I see loads of good intentions in this thread, but even the best of intentions can lead to friction and outright conflict, and this is now becoming quite obvious here. May I humbly suggest that we all calm down a little, consider that each of us wants to see Puppy continue to grow and prosper whatever the development model, and consider each of the possibilities objectively. Just a suggestion, nothing more.

Oh and for the benefit of those who might be wondering: Do I want the "top job"? No. Would I be willing to help? In a heartbeat! I want to see this wonderful legacy of Barry's take on a life of its own, too! It is worthwhile in its own right and deserves to succeed. I sincerely hope that it does so because of us rather than in spite of us.

[ttuuxxx]

removed

[DigitalCrypto]

You don't even understand what you don't understand and you go around trying to make everyone else look like an idiot.

That's the sad part of it.

[disciple]

7 posts!
I guess we're lucky. I don't think I've seen a genuine troll on this forum before
Please stop taking his bait ttuuxxx, then he might go away

ttuuxxx - I think there are two big problems with your proposal:
1. I could be wrong, but I don't think you would be doing any serious development work. It seems to me that when a project relies on volunteers, "final decisions" should be made by the people doing the real development - unless there is a very strong agreement by them to give this power to someone else.
2. Your proposed role seems to have a significant PR/marketing angle. I suspect it would be nice to have someone who displays a high level of literacy in such a role. It would however be interesting to hear some more detail about what you think you could do in this sort of role, as it all sounds rather vague. You do need to think realistically about what it will take to achieve goals like "increasing Puppy's market share". How much could you really increase it? Puppy is already the best general purpose OS, so that isn't the key. Money might be the key... how much money has gone into Ubuntu? But plenty of money has been poured into much less successful distros as well. And where would money come from?