BionicDog (updated: 2018-06-04)

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mikeslr · #501 Post by **mikeslr** » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 17:23

Hi quirkian2new

quirkian2new wrote:...The sfs is over 600MB but still no libreoffice...Seems no SFR's uextract /packit/Take a shot which i use every day.

I haven't set up this version yet. But once you've set it up you'll probably find menu items for handling SFS/Squashfiles. The LibreOffice SFSes available for Puppies will work, using those tools, in DebianDogs. Including LARGE applications such as LibreOffice which are frequently updated by their original publishers runs counter to the Puppy/DebianDog philosophy that such applications are best loaded as Squashfile rather than installed.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some screenshot utility and an archiving utility already built in, even if not TAS and Packit. As a general rule, pets can be installed into DebianDogs, but using native applications is less likely to generate problems. One of the ways to configure the boot-options for the debiandogs is "Save --Ask on Exit" which will enable you to select "No Save'. [May not be the 'proper name', but you'll get the idea once you reviewed the boot options]. That's the way I always run Dogs. But if you prefer something else, you can just add it as a seperate stanza on your boot menu. I recommend you use that option anytime you want to experiment with installing pets. Install, test, if a problem, don't Save.

Regarding UExtract, fredx181 and don570 created debs for both 32 and 64 bit Stretchdog. And, as belham2 noted, he just installed the pets. See the discussion on from here down: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 869#970869. There may already be a version in BionicDog's repos. UExtract is SFS's application providing a GUI and master-bash-script which makes use of binaries already on a system. It does not add any binaries, so there is nothing within it which can conflict with whatever you already have on your system, As a result, belham2's approach --use the pet-- or fred's and don's --provide a deb-- will work; and also the 64-bit deb for Stretchdog should function under BionicDog.

mikesLr

backi · #502 Post by **backi** » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 17:27

Hi quirkian2new !
Using zram -----install zram-config from Synaptic Packetmanager ......does work automatically after saving and reboot .

ETP · #503 Post by **ETP** » Mon 03 Sep 2018, 19:31

Hi quirkian2new,

Thanks for your report.

In System Settings (Control Center) / Preferred Applications mpv is set as the default music player.
You may want to change that to vlc which is a bit more attractive. Cinnamon is meant to integrate with
Gnome Mplayer but I have just spotted that there is a problem with that which needs investigating.

Uextract was removed as it's right click integration went beserk when Cinnamon was installed.
That also needs investigating if a reinstall via synaptic does not work.

TAS is not present but there are 3 screenshot utilities:

1. Print Screen key (For a full-screen shot)

2. On wbar the camera icon provides gnome-screenshot.

3. On the Graphics menu MakeScreenshot which launches SCReen-shOT (AKA Scrot)

(Both mpv & vlc also have inbuilt screenshot abilities to capture any video playing in their windows)

Cinnamon is a very large package as it provides a lot of gloss. I think that it was 01Micko who once
commented that The Puppy Forum is a broad church. There is room for small fast and light plus something
perhaps more modern but heavy.

EDIT: 4th Sept 2018

The fix to ensure correct operation of the Cinnamon pop-up audio control feature which uses Gnome Mplayer is as follows:

1. Launch GNOME Mplayer from the main Menu then open up Edit/Preferences. On the Player tab adopt the
settings as in the screenshot below so that it shows Default & Stereo rather than PulseAudio.

2. In System Settings / Preferred applications change Music to GNOME Mplayer.

EDIT: 22nd Sept 2018
A brief video showing the use of vlc & GNOME Mplayer follows:-

https://photos.app.goo.gl/EwtHtpJ2cA6vA5XH7

dcung · #504 Post by **dcung** » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 10:03

I just noticed that there is no ping command in BionicDog OOTB?

I installed 2ping from synaptic, didn't like it. Didn't work for me. I didn't really investigate why. Most likely, me not paying attention...to options, etc. I only want to spend seconds to ping...

I just downloaded another one from synaptic, arping.
Works fine.

I'm just curious, really no ping OOTB? or am I missing something?

fredx181 · #505 Post by **fredx181** » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 10:17

It's part of package "iputils-ping"
But you can also do:

Code: Select all

busybox ping

Or make symlink to busybox and just ping can be used:

Code: Select all

ln -s /bin/busybox /bin/ping

Fred

quirkian2new · #506 Post by **quirkian2new** » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 15:16

hello ETP and fredx181,

one silly question for my unfamiliar with this .

I have been using Fatdog64 , and observed it split RAM into 50/50 like other puppies.
Barry's Quirky8.5 use zram, so with my physical ram of 8GB i observe available ram space of over 10 GB.

How about your iso ? In what way does it make use of RAM, the Fatdog64 style or the Quirky8 style ?

rcrsn51 · #507 Post by **rcrsn51** » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 15:58

and observed it split RAM into 50/50 like other puppies

Please explain.

dcung · #508 Post by **dcung** » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 20:43

fredx181 wrote:It's part of package "iputils-ping"

Thanks Fred.

quirkian2new · #509 Post by **quirkian2new** » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 13:59

@rcrsn51

The screenshot is my machine with 2gb ram running Fatdog702, there is a number 994M at the right bottom corner.

On my another machine with 4 gb ram, this number is about 1800M or so, so i thought it to be about half of my actual ram(i am not sure whether i am correct)

When i run editsfs under Fatdog702 on this 4gb ram machine (to edit a sfs file with size about 350MB), the result is unsuccessful all the time.

On the other hand, if i do the same editsfs under Quirky8.2 on the same 4gb ram machine, sometimes it is successful.

So i wonder if using Fatdog702 and Quirky8.2 on the same machine, the "free ram" that an app can actually use may be different.

I am not a programmer nor advanced user, i just ask out of my curiosity.

thanks

dcung · #510 Post by **dcung** » Wed 05 Sep 2018, 22:30

Hi quirkian2new,

Below is screenshot from Fatdog_721.
On my 2GB laptop, that number was also approx 996M when fresh installed.
But now it is 54GB (I switched from savefile to savedir).
If it is the same in Fatdog_701 & Fatdog_721, that number represents what free space left in your savefile/savedir.

dcung · #511 Post by **dcung** » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 09:17

I saw other dogs have separate locale SFS for 32 & 64 bit.

Just confirming, BionicDog 32 & 64 use same sfs (only see one on 1st page)?
99-locales-BionicDog-2018-04-21.squashfs

How do you set locale? I loaded the SFS and I was looking for a menu to set locale but could not see it.

I am assuming that this would get rid of those setlocale warnings that I sometimes saw?

Thanks.

fredx181 · #512 Post by **fredx181** » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 19:39

Hi dcung,

For the locales, 64 or 32-bit makes no difference AFAIK.
It's not straightforward for Bionicdog and will be not be perfect, to do manually, see earlier topic (Russian) (first put "99-locales-BionicDog-2018-04-21.squashfs" in casper directory and reboot):
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 270#991270
(and scroll down for more about it (and some on next page)
More info on Xenialdog thread, for German (a bit different method but should work on Bionicdog also)
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 259#963259

I am assuming that this would get rid of those setlocale warnings that I sometimes saw?

What warnings were that ?

Fred

dcung · #513 Post by **dcung** » Thu 06 Sep 2018, 21:03

fredx181 wrote:What warnings were that ?

Sometimes these appears when I run apt-get to install apps.

Code: Select all

perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
	LANGUAGE = (unset),
	LC_ALL = (unset),
	LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
    are supported and installed on your system.
perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").
locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
locale: Cannot set LC_ALL to default locale: No such file or directory

AFAIK it is 'cosmetic', ie. apps still installed OK.
And I came across this
https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1720356
which basically says (?)

Code: Select all

#  add to /etc/environment and reboot.
LANGUAGE="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"

It seems to 'solve' apt-get warning, but 'create' another problem.
When I open a terminal, then I get the same warning...
So, it seems to 'migrate'...

So, I thought....maybe play with locales...
.
.

trister · #514 Post by **trister** » Fri 07 Sep 2018, 08:43

Squashfs that adds some missing xorg drivers (I hope I got the terminology right) that will allow to run BionicDog64 to some "difficult" PCs/Laptops.
bionicdog64_extra_stretchdog64_drivers_vesa_v01.squashfs https://1fichier.com/?jnnfcy223opa26anprrp
This was a revelation for me since cause of this problem I was forced to using DebianDogs (I don't regret it though

)

The history behind this (you can ignore it

) :

2 years ago I had to select a current linux distro for my work. My old requirements were very old PCs so I was using puppy distros like fluppy and precise.

I got a new i5 PC and started trying puppy and dog distros.
In short I could only boot fluppy, DebianDog, XenialDog32 and StretchDog and WindowsXP live CDs . The machine was booting with generic drivers (and it was ok for me since I don't use heavy graphics apps).
I tried many distros (even arch linux did not boot) Only setting nomodeset in kernel parameters I could startX.

Yesterday, I tried BionicDog64 and it (as I expected) it also did not run -even with nomode set.

Comparing with StretchDog64 I found that VESA drivers were missing. I did a squashfs with drivers from StretchDog64 that did not exist in BionicDog64 and now I have a working BIonicDog64 system (using nomodeset parameter).

I am posting the additional drivers here because I think the lack o VESA drivers will stop this distro from working in many "strange: laptops & PCs.

I still haven't managed to manually set or detect my real graphics card in xorg ( Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller [8086:0152] ) but at least I can work with bionicdog64 and vesa.

Files that are contained in the squashfs are :
/usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/ :
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 31800 May 7 2015 cirrus_alpine.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 19448 May 7 2015 cirrus_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 27928 May 7 2015 cirrus_laguna.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 23656 Sep 23 2013 fbdev_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 149728 May 7 2015 mach64_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 144856 Jan 18 2017 mga_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 66640 May 8 2015 neomagic_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 348592 Jan 23 2017 openchrome_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 140992 Jan 18 2017 savage_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 77240 Jan 18 2017 sisusb_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 66040 Jan 18 2017 tdfx_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 142320 Jan 18 2017 trident_drv.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 27760 Oct 28 2015 vesa_drv.so

rcrsn51 · #515 Post by **rcrsn51** » Fri 07 Sep 2018, 14:26

@trister: Here are some additional thoughts on this issue:

1. The only people who still have these old machines are computer hobbyists and obsessive hoarders.

Everyone else sent them to e-waste recycling long ago.

2. Read proebler's report here about his Computer #4. Even though it wanted the mga driver, the version out of Debian no longer worked with his hardware. I suspect that this will also be true with other ancient video cards.

Luckily, it's easy to install VESA from the console prompt if Xorg fails to start:

Code: Select all

apt-get update
apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-vesa
startx

3. I debated including this driver in the Starter Kit ISO. But I was curious about how many people would be impacted by its absence. In my experience, the built-in modesetting drivers handle the vast majority of machines fine.

4. Many owners of Win8/Win10/UEFI machines are switching them to legacy mode so they can install a Linux. But this sometimes has a nasty side-effect - only VESA video now works. I have seen this myself.

The preferred solution on these machines is to disable Secure Boot and boot Linux using the UEFI firmware.

----------------

trister · #516 Post by **trister** » Fri 07 Sep 2018, 20:36

rcrsn51 wrote:@trister: Here are some additional thoughts on this issue:

1. The only people who still have these old machines are computer hobbyists and obsessive hoarders. Everyone else sent them to e-waste recycling long ago.

rcrsn51 wrote: 2. Read proebler's report here about his Computer #4. Even though it wanted the mga driver, the version out of Debian no longer worked with his hardware. I suspect that this will also be true with other ancient video cards.

Luckily, it's easy to install VESA from the console prompt if Xorg fails to start:
Code: Select all
apt-get update
apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-vesa
startx

The school lab I was in the past (4 years ago) had computer #4 but with only 500MB ram (P4). I did not know and Dogs distro then only puppy. In these old PCs I used precise puppy and fluppy (which is so far the most reliable puppy I've used). I also had added a modified version of edupup200.iso and HanSamBen431. These PCs runned Windows XP and was very slow. In the next building there were the same machines but with windows 2000. The speed difference was noticable.

I also discovered somewhere a PII with 32MB and Windows 98. It run with a very decent speed and had Office 2000... In the last PC I tried pulp and pUPnGO puppies but they ware dead slow...

rcrsn51 wrote: 3. I debated including this driver in the Starter Kit ISO. But I was curious about how many people would be impacted by its absence. In my experience, the built-in modesetting drivers handle the vast majority of machines fine.

I had this issue in many of my friends PCs and laptops. In a very new PC with a new GPU even StretchDog64 could not run.
I tried the modsetting driver just today morning in my work PC (the problematic i5 I mentioned) and it did not work (tried without nomodeset kernel parameter).

rcrsn51 wrote: 4. Many owners of Win8/Win10/UEFI machines are switching them to legacy mode so they can install a Linux. But this sometimes has a nasty side-effect - only VESA video now works. I have seen this myself.
-

rcrsn51 wrote: The preferred solution on these machines is to disable Secure Boot and boot Linux using the UEFI firmware.

----------------

I suspect this would be the case... After many tries I decided that LICK boot loader is the best solution. It installs in Windows 10 a grub4dos-like boot loader without any problems.
I don't know though how I could boot an StretchDog frugal installation....

dcung · #517 Post by **dcung** » Sat 08 Sep 2018, 00:35

A member (step) provided me with the code I needed for Fatdog
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 26&start=1

Code: Select all

/usr/sbin/fatdog-drive-icon-mount-helper.sh /dev/sdb1 /mnt/sdb1

I'm looking to do the same in BionicDog.

Anyone knows what codes get invoked when you click USB disk 'icon'?
.
i.e. I'd to 'pretend' I have clicked/mounted that at each boot.

rcrsn51 · #518 Post by **rcrsn51** » Sat 08 Sep 2018, 03:39

With what filesystem is sdb1 formatted?

trister · #519 Post by **trister** » Sat 08 Sep 2018, 05:35

In the 2 PCs I've tried (in the 1 both use vesa and in the other both detect/use i915) I see quite a speed difference.
In normal operations (browsing, libreoffice ,flash games) StretchDog 64bit seems a lot quicker than BionicDog 64bit.

StretchDog loads at start 120+ squashfs and bionicdog loads 10 squashfs (which are the exact ones that I use in StretchDog).

Is this speed difference normal?
It's not that important to me , I just ask out of curiosity.

dcung · #520 Post by **dcung** » Sat 08 Sep 2018, 05:40

rcrsn51 wrote:With what filesystem is sdb1 formatted?

ext4.

Does it matter though? I'm hoping it doesn't, that way whatever USB disk I plug in, the startup command still works.

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BionicDog (updated: 2018-06-04)

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