From today's Letters to the Editor
Fair warning
SIR - Nailed to a tree where a local garden
runs close to a footpath is a vintage sign
(Letters, November 29) which reads:
NO TRESPASSING
Violators will be shot.
Survivors will be shot again.
Jonathan Goodall
Bath, Somerset
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mikeb,
I absolutely agree with your sentiments on threatening PMs; however, the only threatening PM I ever recollect sending or receiving was yours.
Unwelcome PMs are entirely another matter, as you may soon see; then attack or defend as you see fit.
What flash drive speeds do you get?
well of course you would.....I absolutely agree with your sentiments on threatening PMs; however, the only threatening PM I ever recollect sending or receiving was yours.
I did threaten to take the matter to a moderator if that's what you meant.....
then you stopped... matter solved as far as I was concerned.
Anyway back to the current theme here... it just reminded me of times gone past. Whether I agree with gcmartin or not (and believe me I don't at times) I would never question his right to post whatever he feels is relevant , and as to if the material is relevant and worthy of posting is NOT yours to decide or attempt to bully out of the picture which seems to be your tactic here.
mike
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stemsee
Overall a positive contributor of dialogue and ideas, but too insistent, at times, on imposing your own perspective while disregarding other perspectives of no less importance.
While the other contestant also full of ideas and mechanisms to persuade others to deliver, and lacking produce, and usually doesn't provide the promised assistance, yet avoids rudeness, much to their credit.
It could be a draw! Let the judges decide!
While the other contestant also full of ideas and mechanisms to persuade others to deliver, and lacking produce, and usually doesn't provide the promised assistance, yet avoids rudeness, much to their credit.
It could be a draw! Let the judges decide!
Most on this forum are either getting help or giving it.Once I've purchased/have any particular stick (and makers rarely publish speed data) it's only my cans/usage that matter to me.
I sense from the above neither is intended so question the presence on the thread at all apart from picking up on any mistakes us humans might make...
And yes manners are free and make quite a difference....
mike
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Jasper
-
LazY Puppy
- Posts: 1934
- Joined: Fri 21 Nov 2014, 18:14
- Location: Germany
What bash (ing)
write speeds
can we get
by this thread?
write speeds
can we get
by this thread?
RSH
"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) :lol:
No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! :wink:
"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) :lol:
No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! :wink:
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gcmartin
Well,it looks like @jasper's intent is to derail the thread. Unhappy with any success at that, he thinks the thread has become some sort of a contest. Truce??? What are we dealing with in his responses?
Maybe he is trying to offer something useful. What could it be?
Edit: Better idea may be to just ignore. Let hope the meds kick in soon.
Maybe he is trying to offer something useful. What could it be?
Edit: Better idea may be to just ignore. Let hope the meds kick in soon.
-
gcmartin
Back on thread's track.
I was at a Superstore over the weekend which had a wall of usb sticks from many manufacturers. Excepting Sony, HP, Toshiba, and couple others, there were manufacturers unheard of. And on this wall, as one would expect, there were many sizes from 4GB to 128GB. So, I started reading the labeling of those manufacturers who posted speeds. And, I also entered Superstore website and other sources to get some ideas of the info they posted on performance speeds. In my case at this Superstore, the hooks were 30 across and 9 down with at least 7 USB/sdcard units hanging from each to give an idea on the voulume of units. I find that the specs varied wildly with NO consistent variable, even in the same brand and model. In fact, some units had a 15fold difference between read/write speeds, while others were closer. No sticks show performances where read/write speeds came closer than 30MB/sec to their read speeds. Again, these manufacturer specs vary wildly and I found that "turbo" may not mean what one would think.
Surprisingly, too, I found that there are USB3 sticks that are slower than their USB2 counterparts according to package labeling.
In review, if seems that with all the sizes, models, across manufacturers, there will be daunting task ahead to collect and report USB performances in light of the new models coming and the connector changes in store for us.
I wondered while there if there is a site, similar to Tom's Hardware, which is actually measuring the performance of these units using some standard system and procedure.
So, today, I am at the same crossroad that I was at a decade ago when selecting HDDs with ATA/SCSI/SATA interfaces where price-performance showed similar findings.
I was at a Superstore over the weekend which had a wall of usb sticks from many manufacturers. Excepting Sony, HP, Toshiba, and couple others, there were manufacturers unheard of. And on this wall, as one would expect, there were many sizes from 4GB to 128GB. So, I started reading the labeling of those manufacturers who posted speeds. And, I also entered Superstore website and other sources to get some ideas of the info they posted on performance speeds. In my case at this Superstore, the hooks were 30 across and 9 down with at least 7 USB/sdcard units hanging from each to give an idea on the voulume of units. I find that the specs varied wildly with NO consistent variable, even in the same brand and model. In fact, some units had a 15fold difference between read/write speeds, while others were closer. No sticks show performances where read/write speeds came closer than 30MB/sec to their read speeds. Again, these manufacturer specs vary wildly and I found that "turbo" may not mean what one would think.
Surprisingly, too, I found that there are USB3 sticks that are slower than their USB2 counterparts according to package labeling.
In review, if seems that with all the sizes, models, across manufacturers, there will be daunting task ahead to collect and report USB performances in light of the new models coming and the connector changes in store for us.
I wondered while there if there is a site, similar to Tom's Hardware, which is actually measuring the performance of these units using some standard system and procedure.
So, today, I am at the same crossroad that I was at a decade ago when selecting HDDs with ATA/SCSI/SATA interfaces where price-performance showed similar findings.
-
Jasper
gcmartin,
I asked you:
To produce a useful table of results - exactly which Forum member did you expect to offer to find the resources (thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours)?
Now I ask:
Did you not agree with stemsee that all tests should be conducted on the same machine?
---------------
There are at least 3 observations I could make on your post immediately above, but you are a clownish waste of space and would claim I derail this thread even further.
Get something right and do something well and as stemsee effectively wrote - do NOT make offers and promises that are nothing but mirages.
I asked you:
To produce a useful table of results - exactly which Forum member did you expect to offer to find the resources (thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours)?
Now I ask:
Did you not agree with stemsee that all tests should be conducted on the same machine?
---------------
There are at least 3 observations I could make on your post immediately above, but you are a clownish waste of space and would claim I derail this thread even further.
Get something right and do something well and as stemsee effectively wrote - do NOT make offers and promises that are nothing but mirages.
Ah another beautiful morning.....
jasper...Well that took the rest of the day to produce those 3 lines of reply.
In fact I am surprised you lower yourself to post on the puppy forum at all.
So no more twisting things to become the victim its now attempts to promote anger using belittlement which unfortunately fails as I realise I am one tiny piece in a world sized jigsaw. I ate my humble pie many years ago.
Well I wish you joy and happiness because believe me I would rather be happy than right.
As Gcmartin suggests to attempt to continue we should leave you be which is not such a bad idea just to be sure this is not some form of attention seeking. I am sure you will continue as you appear to be unable to help yourself. So be it...
On topic.... well the more I test the less consistent the results become....not exactly productive. My last checks gave ~2MB/s with a 300MB file on a stick that gave 1.7 with /dev/urandom and a lively 6-20MB/s with a 700MB file...or it did the other day. If the op has not given up on this thread perhaps he/she has some suggestions at this point. And yes there is surely a site testing sticks out there but perhaps that does not include on Linux of which the op was concerned that there was something in the kernels limiting performance.
mike
jasper...Well that took the rest of the day to produce those 3 lines of reply.
In fact I am surprised you lower yourself to post on the puppy forum at all.
So no more twisting things to become the victim its now attempts to promote anger using belittlement which unfortunately fails as I realise I am one tiny piece in a world sized jigsaw. I ate my humble pie many years ago.
Well I wish you joy and happiness because believe me I would rather be happy than right.
As Gcmartin suggests to attempt to continue we should leave you be which is not such a bad idea just to be sure this is not some form of attention seeking. I am sure you will continue as you appear to be unable to help yourself. So be it...
On topic.... well the more I test the less consistent the results become....not exactly productive. My last checks gave ~2MB/s with a 300MB file on a stick that gave 1.7 with /dev/urandom and a lively 6-20MB/s with a 700MB file...or it did the other day. If the op has not given up on this thread perhaps he/she has some suggestions at this point. And yes there is surely a site testing sticks out there but perhaps that does not include on Linux of which the op was concerned that there was something in the kernels limiting performance.
mike
-
Jasper
mikeb
Obviously you did not appreciate my black humour, but this thread has been going nowhere useful so I thought I’d try to liven it up for some viewers.
As you want me to be happy, you may be pleased to know that your last post amused me. Press me - and I’ll explain why.
If you’re happy, you’re happy. So, rhetorically, what’s wrong with being happy and right rather than being happy and wrong.
Obviously you did not appreciate my black humour, but this thread has been going nowhere useful so I thought I’d try to liven it up for some viewers.
As you want me to be happy, you may be pleased to know that your last post amused me. Press me - and I’ll explain why.
If you’re happy, you’re happy. So, rhetorically, what’s wrong with being happy and right rather than being happy and wrong.
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stemsee
Philosophers reach the wrong conclusion.
e.g. Proof that you are not here.
Q. Australia isn't here. Are you there?
A. No
Q. So if you are not there then you must be somewhere else.
A. Yes
Conclusion. Well if you are not there, and you are somewhere else, then you cannot be here. boom boom!
Jasper either you are a woman TRYING TOO HARD to be logical, or a man who plays-for-the-other-team and therefore has an unrealistic view of your original purpose!
I hope it's the former!
e.g. Proof that you are not here.
Q. Australia isn't here. Are you there?
A. No
Q. So if you are not there then you must be somewhere else.
A. Yes
Conclusion. Well if you are not there, and you are somewhere else, then you cannot be here. boom boom!
Jasper either you are a woman TRYING TOO HARD to be logical, or a man who plays-for-the-other-team and therefore has an unrealistic view of your original purpose!
I hope it's the former!
Happy and wrong means not getting angry and frustrated about things that matter not....don't sweat the small stuff comes to mind. I blame our education system for a lot of the social ills I see around this country in particular. It also means there is nothing endearing about arrogance.
Thing is your apparent 'black humour' is not exactly making the rest of us smile much and it appeared to be more of a vendetta whether that was intended or not.
We do care...its just sometimes you make it hard to do so.
mike
Thing is your apparent 'black humour' is not exactly making the rest of us smile much and it appeared to be more of a vendetta whether that was intended or not.
We do care...its just sometimes you make it hard to do so.
mike
-
Jasper
M'Lud, may I bring to your attention that M'Learned Friends as council for the defence have made countless mistaken assumptions during the course of this case and they now assert that the witness claims, despite the millions of places where he might have been at that precise second, he actually saw the accident.
----------
Forget any vendetta and my feelings - stemsee knows I can be persistent. I didn't turn a hair when he recently named me a liar, but when I calmly repeated my reported observation he then rechecked and apologised saying his code didn't work.
----------
So, "I would like to offer............Here to help" may be presumed fact or fiction and when all my relevant and reasonable questions are sidestepped with childish comments (as always happens when gcmartin is in a corner - whomsoever asks) I have, this time, decided to turn the heat up.
I know what mikeb thinks - and gcmartin proclaims it is not about him. He made his statement of intent. He says he is here to help. Support whom you please, but let's play the game without more postponements.
----------
Forget any vendetta and my feelings - stemsee knows I can be persistent. I didn't turn a hair when he recently named me a liar, but when I calmly repeated my reported observation he then rechecked and apologised saying his code didn't work.
----------
So, "I would like to offer............Here to help" may be presumed fact or fiction and when all my relevant and reasonable questions are sidestepped with childish comments (as always happens when gcmartin is in a corner - whomsoever asks) I have, this time, decided to turn the heat up.
I know what mikeb thinks - and gcmartin proclaims it is not about him. He made his statement of intent. He says he is here to help. Support whom you please, but let's play the game without more postponements.
Jasper,
You are guilty of asking gcmartin to post test results, you should have known better. He is not here to do the testing, he is here to help and provide guidance to Puppy devs and users.
Folks, can we ask Flash to interfere, that is, remove all the posts after Jasper's request, or wherever he deems appropriate? This discussion is too important to let it go.
You are guilty of asking gcmartin to post test results, you should have known better. He is not here to do the testing, he is here to help and provide guidance to Puppy devs and users.
Folks, can we ask Flash to interfere, that is, remove all the posts after Jasper's request, or wherever he deems appropriate? This discussion is too important to let it go.
-
Jasper
anikin,
----------
Twice before, I have asked gcmartin:
To produce a useful table of results - exactly which Forum member did you expect to offer to find the resources (thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours)?
Count this as my third request.
---------
Of course, in view of the importance you attach to this thread, you, personally, are most welcome to offer to produce a useful table if you have a few thousand dollars and a few hundred hours to spare - or, you might help gcmartin by suggesting someone else.
----------
Twice before, I have asked gcmartin:
To produce a useful table of results - exactly which Forum member did you expect to offer to find the resources (thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours)?
Count this as my third request.
---------
Of course, in view of the importance you attach to this thread, you, personally, are most welcome to offer to produce a useful table if you have a few thousand dollars and a few hundred hours to spare - or, you might help gcmartin by suggesting someone else.
Jasper,
He will never do the testing, let's face it. He's ignored my similar request in another thread. Push it further and you'll end up getting more grandiloquent bullshit from him. Let's draw a line here and have realistic expectations. This discussion is really worth saving - flash performance is in every Puppy user's interest.
He will never do the testing, let's face it. He's ignored my similar request in another thread. Push it further and you'll end up getting more grandiloquent bullshit from him. Let's draw a line here and have realistic expectations. This discussion is really worth saving - flash performance is in every Puppy user's interest.
-
Jasper
-
gcmartin
Actually I have done some testing weeks ago. This is why I posted the original idea shared.
As @MikeB and couple others have already noticed, results are inconsistent.
I agree that this thread has importance, but, we need to have a "standard" manner of approach for our testing so that each person can understand the results that they see on their individual PCs running Puppy Linux.
So, trying to provide a measurement of a given stick on a given PC varies wildly in my finding. But, taking a element of "standard" use and some standard steps does allow one to see whether the sticks matches a behavior that the manufacturer presents. And, as I also found, that changing some simple manners of boot and use, even with the same distro on the same PC, will alter behavior.
It does not appear to be the kernel. Its both the system, controller and the stick.
This does NOT need any result posting as this is easily verifyable.
Not withstanding the individual demanding I present something for him, in the fashion he wants to see it, with the results he wants to see, with the words he wants used is not something I adhere to. As indicated, at this time, that is unrealistic for my platforms differ. But, with some standard we could all have the same tool to use as a means of verifying stick behavior for our use. Many members in this forum have several PCs and they too have found similar results as several of us are indicating.
I posted the theme to assist in members seeking an approach to try to better see a manner for gathering results that could be useful in our homes as these "sticks" undergo the changes that is underway. We have long since left the world of USB1.1 and USB3 has been around for awhile. Members have all kinds of PCs with all kinds of USB motherboard support which is compounded by the sticks manufactured for either USB2 or USB3.
But wait, there's more....Anyway, I think many see why the appeal was raised so that we could better measure with reasonable understanding of the results.
Here to help
BTW, Of course, there will be a nay-sayer, "just because". (I'm sure, also, that there is a 13 year old who is really angered, somewhere, by now...just because)
As @MikeB and couple others have already noticed, results are inconsistent.
I agree that this thread has importance, but, we need to have a "standard" manner of approach for our testing so that each person can understand the results that they see on their individual PCs running Puppy Linux.
So, trying to provide a measurement of a given stick on a given PC varies wildly in my finding. But, taking a element of "standard" use and some standard steps does allow one to see whether the sticks matches a behavior that the manufacturer presents. And, as I also found, that changing some simple manners of boot and use, even with the same distro on the same PC, will alter behavior.
It does not appear to be the kernel. Its both the system, controller and the stick.
This does NOT need any result posting as this is easily verifyable.
Not withstanding the individual demanding I present something for him, in the fashion he wants to see it, with the results he wants to see, with the words he wants used is not something I adhere to. As indicated, at this time, that is unrealistic for my platforms differ. But, with some standard we could all have the same tool to use as a means of verifying stick behavior for our use. Many members in this forum have several PCs and they too have found similar results as several of us are indicating.
I posted the theme to assist in members seeking an approach to try to better see a manner for gathering results that could be useful in our homes as these "sticks" undergo the changes that is underway. We have long since left the world of USB1.1 and USB3 has been around for awhile. Members have all kinds of PCs with all kinds of USB motherboard support which is compounded by the sticks manufactured for either USB2 or USB3.
But wait, there's more....Anyway, I think many see why the appeal was raised so that we could better measure with reasonable understanding of the results.
Here to help
BTW, Of course, there will be a nay-sayer, "just because". (I'm sure, also, that there is a 13 year old who is really angered, somewhere, by now...just because)
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Jasper
From a PM I received in March 2014 [senders name withheld]
____________________________________________________________When I produce a guide, would you edit it for correctness and clarity?
But, I would like your review and your comment, Private, before publishing.
Am I out of line to ask for your review and comments?