Just for clarification....
Removing the FAT/NTFS drivers would not mean that HanSamBen would not be installable as the main OS on a single computer, either full or frugally installed with GRUB on its own partition (this would use the linux ext2/ext3 drivers). You could use it for recycling the computers for schools, and parents could have a LiveCD to use on their Windows computers at home.
It would be a good idea to remove the disk tools (Grub install, Gparted etc) from the menu's though!
So the issue is, to allow a savefile on a windows (home) computer? I know this would be desirable to users yes, however for "marketing" purposes (i.e. to make this educational software accessible to the most children) if we are able to say "wont effect your windows installation in any way whatsoever" then more parents would be inclined to try it. Windows XP users, from their many bitter experiences, are very loathe to try *anything* new on a computer. Most I have seen, if something comes up they dont understand with words like "write", "update", "change", they just click "no" automatically for fear of an expensive repair bill.
Ok....so possible ways around this problem of "psychology".
Some "thinking aloud".....
Instead of removing the NTFS/FAT drivers entirely, just remove all the automount/file utilities from the menus, and the routines to ask if a save file is created at shutdown (/etc/rc.shutdown). HSB will then boot everytime in RAM, and shutdown without making any change. Home users/triallers happy!
have a "hidden" command (perhaps like a key combination "cheat" on a game) documented in the manual..(which the little ones cant read!). This will bring up a menu that will allow Parents/carers/recyclers to create an edu_save.2fs file on an ntfs/fat partion that will be picked up at boot time. This way kids could save their work, once their parents are confident in Linux's remarkable ability not to break their computer! Experienced home users happy
For recyclers such as yourself Sullysat, and people such as smdelfin, who only have access to lower spec computers, then I would suggest a special boot parameter "pfix=recycle". This option would call a special install routine in the "init" script found inside initrd.gz. that would basically recycle the computer into a dedicated kids computer for use in either a home or a school. Recyclers/School IT people Happy
Ideas for the modified "init" script
This routine would NOT load the pup_412 into ram (as happens with a livecd boot), therefore would potentially make HSB installable on computers with as
little as 32mb of RAM or less....this would maximise access to the educational facilities in HSB, especially to those from less well-off countries. Current puppy has a "double negative" lockout...people cant boot puppy to install puppy to run in less than 64mb unless they have 64mb of RAM already!
This "recycle" subroutine within init would script would:-
1. Confirm what was about to happen (the computer being wiped and all existing data lost!), and give the user chance to abort.
2. Format the hard drive of the computer with a ext2 partition, and a 200mb swap.
3. Install a preconfigured GRUB bootloader, with correct menu.lst, vmlinuz and initrd.gz
4. extract the pup_412.sfs from the cd to the new ext2 partition.
The "full only" install method would not only allow very old computers to be recycled easily with an absolute minimum of training by educationalists, but would also mean that computers that have been dedicated WHOLLY to running HSB would have an extremely quick boot time before the "pretties" appeared....kids have little patience for such things!
If the additional subroutine in the "init" script were GPL, then with the will, theoreticall it *could* be added to mainstream puppy linux. PL will only boot to allow the current i:lol: nstaller to work in 64mb of RAM AFAIK. This would make Mainstream Puppy available EASILY to people that only had computers with 32mb/24mb of RAM....they would only need to know to start with the Boot Parameter "pfix=recycle". This would save a lot more computer waste, and enable access to I.T. to the worlds poorest with only 32mb of RAM without a lot of training.
@ Sidders
You are probably reading the above and thinking ":shock:" I understand you are working on this for free ATM and your time for it is limited. Im very grateful for the work you have put in already.
At this early stage of the project, I believe it is probably best for you to continue the way you are with the removal of the NTFS/FAT drivers entirely . This allows us to be confident that non of our "testers" will suffer "broken windows" (or me personally for that matter
), and can supply more of the feedback we currently need on the applications.
@ Sullysat, would you be happy for Sidders to continue down the route of removing the NTFS/FAT drivers entirely for the time being, for the sake of simplicity, on the promise to add the above as a "feature" in a later version to extend HSB's reach to more people/schools? Perhaps by then we will be joined by more programmers which will ease the load on Sidders. Have you heard of the 80/20 rule?
Just some ideas/loud thinking.....Feedback/expertise/technical knowledge appreciated.