Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

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fredx181
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#2461 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni, All
New apt2sfs attached, which has a very different approach.
Instead of creating module from downloaded/extracted packages, the packages will be installed and afterwards uninstalled.
It depends on a very small package 'inotify-tools'.

Some info about how it works:
Using inotifywait, the added or created files in /live/cow during apt-get installing, are listed in /tmp/instfiles.
Filtering /var directory out (so /var won't be copied) to /tmp/newfiles
Copying files (read from /tmp/newfiles) to the working directory.

Then the part that I most struggled with: Uninstalling exactly what was previously installed.
I may have overlooked something but I thought doing this should do it right:

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apt-get install <package1> <package2>
apt-get purge <package1> <package2> # purge exactly the same packages as just installed
apt-get autoremove
But it really does NOT always.(I've read that aptitude is more reliable with this)
If anyone knows a better way please say, but I finally I used in the script this dirty trick:

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rm -f /var/log/dpkg.log # Start fresh logging 
apt-get install <package1> <package2>
PURGE=`cat /var/log/dpkg.log  |grep ' unpacked ' |cut -d\  -f5 |cut -d: -f1 |sort |uniq` # read most recent from dpkg.log
apt-get purge $PURGE # purge all previously installed packages
Toni, if you have time, please test and suggest about cleaning or other.
This should work better because the packages are 'really' installed.
For example creating a sfs for 'bleachbit' didn't work with previous apt2sfs, now it does :)

Fred
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apt2sfs-new.zip
new apt2sfs
(2.74 KiB) Downloaded 264 times

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saintless
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#2462 Post by saintless »

Thank you, Fred!

I will test new apt2sfs tomorrow and write back.

I will leave your ffmpeg-static till I make new one without non-free packages later.

Just for information what I'm working on today and in the next days is:

1. Iso-Hybrid image with dd or cp direct on usb. It does not work well for my hardware. So far I have success to boot it on only one newer machine. The other problem is usb flash drive needs special procedure with fdisk in order to use it again. Gparted can't format it without running fdisk first. I think to abandon iso-hybrid as option for DebianDog.

2. Porting DebianDog-Wheezy to DebianDog-Sid version - goes very well with porteus-boot but I have troubles with live-boot. It has all the same as DebianDog Wheezy but I use kernel 3.12 from Fred's Porteus Wheezy. Maybe I will upload testing iso in the next days but I'm not sure it is good idea yet. Unfortunately I don't have much time lately and DebianDog-Sid version will probably stay only testing.

Question to all reading this thread:
Any thoughts about DebianDog-SID version? Can we manage to develop both? Anyone interested to open new thread and develop DebianDog-SID project? I'm not sure I will have time for both.


Edit: OK just installed kernel 3.13 from DebianDog-SID and it boots with live-boot-v3. I think live-boot issue is solved for SID version.

Toni

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#2463 Post by saintless »

fredx181 wrote:...suggest about cleaning or other.
This should work better because the packages are 'really' installed.
For example creating a sfs for 'bleachbit' didn't work with previous apt2sfs, now it does :)
Hi, Fred.

Just tested with bleachbit to see the changes for jwm version.
Great Job I can say! The cleaning is very well done.
What i would suggest for extra cleaning regarding jwm version:

/etc/menu.old
/opt - (i get update-menus link there in /opt/bin) removing /opt folder. I doubt something installed with apt-get will put files in /opt
/root/.jwm folder
/root/.jwmrc
Or maybe better to remove /root folder instead files inside. The configurations in root should happen after running a program only I think.
nothing more can be cleaned safe if you aks me.

One minor thing:
I haven't test not to type Y in terminal (maybe Y will be auto added) when the message to press Enter for uninstalling packages appear but I think it is better to add to this message something like:
Click on terminal window (to focus the window for typing, otherwise Enter does not work), type Y to confirm uninstalling and press Enter.

Toni

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#2464 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni,
Thanks for the suggestions!

New attached apt2sfs:
- /root and /opt are excluded for copying to working directory.
- /etc/menu.old removed.
- changed message for uninstalling.

And added:automatically only removal of.deb packages downloaded by apt2sfs.
So then the system is completely untouched after running apt2sfs.
(well, AFAIK only exception is /var/log/dpkg.log)

About what you proposed for Debian Sid:
I am not very much in favor of it, mainly because of the constant updates (many, goes on almost every day).
My experience with it is that when you upgrade only one package the system may break.
So for having a full install it might be ok (if you know how to handle stuff when something goes wrong)
But for a system setup like DebianDog it's not suitable IMHO (except maybe if you remaster regularly with all the updates included)

Fred
Attachments
apt2sfs-new2.zip
2nd new apt2sfs
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#2465 Post by saintless »

Thanks, Fred!
I will test the new apt2sfs.
fredx181 wrote:But for a system setup like DebianDog it's not suitable IMHO (except maybe if you remaster regularly with all the updates included)
This is exactly what I mean asking for someone to develop SID version in separate thread. Some packages are updated in hours (not days) :) And some small configuratins changes has to be done all the time.
I will play for a few days to see how SID version goes and then we shall see.

Toni

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#2466 Post by dancytron »

I would think working on the SID version would distract from testing and feedback on the Wheezy version. Better to concentrate on one distribution at least until the final release of the Wheezy version.

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#2467 Post by saintless »

I'm not ready to start another separate project my self so there will be no DebianDog-SID if someone else does not want to work on it.
But experimenting with SID makes me think DebianDog-SID iso test version with only live-boot-v3 can be very helpful for DebianDog-Wheezy development.
For example I have XDM activated with autologin as root on DebianDog-SID. I'm not sure how it happened yet. Maybe XDM new version just supports autologin? Or some other upgraded package makes this possible?
Maybe we can get some important improvements or fixes for DebianDog if we use SID version for testing.

Toni

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#2468 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni,
dancytron wrote:I would think working on the SID version would distract from testing and feedback on the Wheezy version. Better to concentrate on one distribution at least until the final release of the Wheezy version.
First, I agree with what dancytron says.

But then (looking at the future) I think it's much more logical to concentrate on "jessie" instead of "sid" because jessie will become the new stable soon.
So then, a transition to jessie can be made as easy as possible for DebianDog.

Fred

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#2469 Post by saintless »

fredx181 wrote:New attached apt2sfs:
- /root and /opt are excluded for copying to working directory.
- /etc/menu.old removed.
- changed message for uninstalling.
Works fine, Fred. :)
Nothing more to suggest. I will add information and download link in updates for the next version and new picture in the Utilities thread.
I think it will be good to keep also old apt2sfs in the next version. It might be more suitable and faster for some type of applications like ffmpeg.

Working on Jessie before it gets stable is double work if you ask me.
Based on my quick test with SID it is easy job to make distro upgrade. A little bit harder to make new initrd file work. The configuration changes after that are the hard work part and we will have to make them twice for Jessie if we start now. It will have many more updates before gets stable. We also do not know with sure which kernel to use as default.

SID is a good test if we can make the configurations changes stable for every day updates. For example mk-jwm.menu and desktop convert files. Many icons are missing after the upgrade and some menu entries like isomaster do not appear. We do not have this problem in Wheezy.

Toni

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#2470 Post by saintless »

For example I have XDM activated with autologin as root on DebianDog-SID.
Seems the solution is very simple and has nothing to do with new XDM version package. I will test a bit more but I think we will have autologin as root with activated XDM in the next DebianDog version.
All we need to do is to change /etc/X11/default-display-manager content from /bin/true to /usr/bin/xdm without changing /etc/inittab
it is strange I tested this few times before without luck. But now seems to work OK.

Toni

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#2471 Post by mcewanw »

fredx181 wrote: First, I agree with what dancytron says.

But then (looking at the future) I think it's much more logical to concentrate on "jessie" instead of "sid" because jessie will become the new stable soon.
EDIT: Am I correct in my understanding, from memory recall, that systemd is going to be used in future debian/ubuntu distributions rather than initd? I'm used to initd so that could be quite a change...
Last edited by mcewanw on Tue 29 Apr 2014, 11:43, edited 1 time in total.
github mcewanw

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#2472 Post by saintless »

Hi, William.
mcewanw wrote:I am correct in my, from memory recall, that systemd is going to be used in future debian/ubuntu distributions rather than initd?
I can't find sure information about this but Gnome already added systemd as dependency. If this really happens we have one more reason to experiment with SID. It will provide always latest version of systemd to test the boot process.
Anyway I already have ready for use SID iso and I will upload it for people who like to experiment further with latest software versions.

BTW I read something about initrd issue solved in systemd regarding screen resolution.

Terry,
if you still working on changing screen resolution with xorg.conf this might worth reading:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=110616

Toni

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#2473 Post by saintless »

DebianDog-SID-Test.iso - 128Mb uploaded. Only Jwm-Icewm version with live-boot-2x:
https://9eb8f45ca0acc9dd68fbe8a604cd729 ... D-Test.iso

md5sum:
https://9eb8f45ca0acc9dd68fbe8a604cd729 ... md5sum.txt

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root@debian:~# uname -r
3.13-1-486
root@debian:~# uname -a
Linux debian 3.13-1-486 #1 Debian 3.13.10-1 (2014-04-15) i686 GNU/Linux
root@debian:~# 
The system is upgraded today.
Separate module with /usr/share/locale files for localization;
https://9eb8f45ca0acc9dd68fbe8a604cd729 ... e.squashfs
Separate module with /usr/share/man, doc, info files:
https://9eb8f45ca0acc9dd68fbe8a604cd729 ... o.squashfs

This is SID (always unstable) version of DebianDog. Uploaded only for testing the latest software versions. It will not be further updated or developed. It is only for testing and finding fixes and improvements for DebianDog-Wheezy version.
If you decide to use it as main system keep in mind it is better to upgrade the whole system and make full remaster after every upgrade.Upgrades in SID are available every day. This means you will need to make small configuration changes very often to keep the system up to date all the time.

To use more available repositories add the multimedia, contrib and non-free from sources.list included in the CD in /etc/apt/sources.list
https://9eb8f45ca0acc9dd68fbe8a604cd729 ... urces.list

Only live-boot-v2 included in the iso image.
The difference is initrd1.img is made with initramfs-tools-2x which gives back Copy On Write option. You need to have save file named live-rw on top of ext or vfat partition. It works on top of boot partition also. Or use ext partition labeled live-rw. Read more about live-boot-2x code options here:
http://live-systems.org/manpages/oldsta ... oot.7.html
Here is 1Gb example live-rw save file for testing the persistent method. Extract it on top of any partition including the boot one. Only on NTFS partition it will not work.
http://smokey01.com/saintless/1gb-example-save-file.zip
How to use live-rw save file on NTFS partition:
http://ns1.murga-projects.com/puppy/vie ... 400#758027
You need to have persistent in kernel boot line otherwise no save file will be used.

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title DebianDog SID (sda1) 
root=(hd0,0) 
kernel /live/vmlinuz1 boot=live config persistent swapon quickreboot noprompt autologin showmounts 
initrd /live/initrd1.img
Information how to make full install here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... ab4#772061
If you decide to make full install use for boot original initrd.img created with live-boot-v3x from 022-sid-boot-folder.squashfs uploaded on the site here:
http://smokey01.com/saintless/DebianDog ... r.squashfs

Toni
Last edited by saintless on Sat 10 Jan 2015, 10:01, edited 1 time in total.

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#2474 Post by fredx181 »

Hi Toni,
I've tried quickly your Sid version and everything seems alright except small thing that frisbee doesn't show in systray but after restart X it does.
Just did the same thing successfully with openbox version except didn't upgrade the kernel yet.
I assume you simply did:

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apt-get dist-upgrade
after changing /etc/apt/sources.list (and apt-get update).
It's a miracle how well this works!
Size is a lot more, I guess it cannot be cleaned to make it smaller.
gtk3 cannot be avoided anymore, I think.

One thing I don't understand yet (not about some opinion I have, just like to know what you mean)
Why Sid and not Jessie?
What do you mean with "double work" when focusing on Jessie?

Fred

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#2475 Post by saintless »

Hi, Fred.
fredx181 wrote:I assume you simply did:

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apt-get dist-upgrade
after changing /etc/apt/sources.list (and apt-get update).
It's a miracle how well this works!
Yes, in general. I love Debian :)
I had to configure some things again for Menu Puppy and XDM for example. Still some configurations for Rox needed. I guess many small issues will appear again after distro upgrade is made few more times.
mkinitramfs command did not produce working initrd file for the newer kernel a few times also.
But for testing SID version will be useful (for me at least).
Size is a lot more, I guess it cannot be cleaned to make it smaller.
gtk3 cannot be avoided anymore, I think.
Not sure about this. I think I can slimm down the iso with around 20 Mb more but this will need downgrade of udev package. The new one uses hardware data base which is around 10-15Mb. I think we can find a way to remove safe libllvm package which will give as 26 or 30 Mb + dependencies. liblvm alone is 25 Mb in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu
There is hope for smaller size and this will be useful for jessie one day.
I prefer to keep the SID version bigger. It is better for testing without downgraded packages and without removing auto-installed on upgrade packages.

Double work if we start with jessie now - we do not know when it will become stable. There are still bugs in already added packages from sid to jessie repositiry. We are not sure what kernel to use as default yet and few more upgrades will be needed at least till it gets stable version.
All upgraded packages will wipe out the settings we have every time. Even if we choose to save the previous settings while installing new version it does not work well all the time.
For example XFE does not behave well from SID repository. I like the compiled latest version in DebianDog better. Also Dillo from SID repo does not open https pages. Dillo in DebianDog is compiled with https activated.
Many small things like this we will have to solve all the time till Jessie becomes stable and Wheezy old stable.
It will be the same as with SID version, but SID is the place to find newest packages first. And SID version was a test if we can upgrade DebianDog easy to the next stable. It shows we can do it easy and i'm very glad :)
When Jessie becomes next stable we will fix all broken configuration changes only once.

Toni

mcewanw
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#2476 Post by mcewanw »

Hi Tony

Have you given up on developing the older squeeze version (for older machines)? The reason I ask is that I find that with Wheezy version on both my test machines mplayer consumes almost 50% of CPU (well, actually the older machine uses a bit less cpu!... 26%), which surprised me a bit (I've tried mplayer 1.1 too with same result). Puppy Guydog running its mplayer only consumes 6% CPU! Guydog is based on squeeze so I am wondering if that is related (different gtk2 version maybe or what?). I thought of mesa and radeon and intel video drivers (for the different machines) but apt-get tells me they are both installed.

William

Actually, I should try out light core squeeze old one to see if it is better with mplayer on my machine. I'll do that and report back later.

Hmmm... I just tried Light core squeeze and just the apt-get of mplayer on there and the result is the same - well on one of my machines cpu load is 26% when running mplayer, which is the same on DebianDog mplayer for this machine. So how on earth does Puppy GuyDog mplayer only use 6% CPU (yes, just six percent...). I've always wondered what it is about GuyDog, it uses far less CPU with adobe flash than any other Puppy I've tried also.

EDIT: I think it may be the different kernel, or something to do with xorg? Just tried Puppy Precise 5.6.1 and mplayer usin around 20% CPU (just a little bit less than DebianDog on same system). Precise uses kernel 3.2.44. GuyDog uses a 2.6.x something kernel I think. It is maybe something to do with Xorg_High integrated (whatever that is? Can DebianDog get it?) This is from the GuyDog page:
Here’s the full list of included software:
- Linux kernel 2.6.39.4, patched with the BFS scheduler
- X.Org server with Xorg_High integrated (so you get 3D acceleration out-of-the-box).
- A rock-solid Debian heart.
- SDL, for out-of-the-box support for games and multimedia applications.

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#2477 Post by dancytron »

mcewanw wrote: **lots of stuff deleted**

EDIT: I think it may be the different kernel, or something to do with xorg? Just tried Puppy Precise 5.6.1 and mplayer usin around 20% CPU (just a little bit less than DebianDog on same system). Precise uses kernel 3.2.44. GuyDog uses a 2.6.x something kernel I think. It is maybe something to do with Xorg_High integrated (whatever that is? Can DebianDog get it?) This is from the GuyDog page:
Here’s the full list of included software:
- Linux kernel 2.6.39.4, patched with the BFS scheduler
- X.Org server with Xorg_High integrated (so you get 3D acceleration out-of-the-box).
- A rock-solid Debian heart.
- SDL, for out-of-the-box support for games and multimedia applications.
Have you installed the mesa-dri driver yet. I have to install that on mine to get the acceleration to work. You can try installing mesa-utils and then run glxgears from the terminal and see what it says.

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#2478 Post by saintless »

Hi, William.
mcewanw wrote:Have you given up on developing the older squeeze version (for older machines)?
More or less - yes. I have squeeze version for myself but it has a lot of software installed that is only for personal needs and no user account.
I will update the squeeze iso no-pae version in time with some stuff from Wheezy but no active development will be there.
So how on earth does Puppy GuyDog mplayer only use 6% CPU (yes, just six percent...)
The main reason is the compression method.
GuyDog is default level gzip compressed.
DebianDog is maximum xz compressed.
Try this for DebianDog and use live-boot-v2 instead porteus-boot. Porteus-boot uses a little bit more ram and I guess a little bit more CPU.
Extract the main module:

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unsquashfs -d /live/image/01-new-sfs /live/image/live/01-filesystem.squashfs
Compress it again with default gzip compression:

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mksquashfs /live/image/01-new-sfs /live/image/live/01-filesystem-gzip.squashfs
The size will grow up from 88 to 121 Mb.
Check the CPU usage then.
Older kernel 2.6... also can have something to do but mostly the compression is the reason.
Squeeze version also uses maximum xz compression with newer backport kernel above version 3x.
For Squeeze you can try the same default gzip compression for testing Mplayer usage.
Also Squeeze repository has avifile-player if you like to test if this one uses less instead mplayer.

If you like to continue testing in this direction change the kernel for squeeze with 2.6 series. Also you can try to extract mplayer from GuyDog as portable app to check how it works for DebianDog. I usually do this by copy/paste executable file and start it in Terminal in DebianDog. Then one by one search and copy/paste the needed dependencies till it works.

Toni

mcewanw
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#2479 Post by mcewanw »

saintless wrote: The main reason is the compression method.
I tried what you suggested (gz compressed), but mplayer result the same. Also tried installing libgl1-mesa-dri, again, no difference on this old 2003 radeon graphics laptop. I did try guydog's mplayer in debiandog ages ago when we were lookinf for small mplayer, but doubt I checked cpu usage. I'll investigate further and let you know if I find anything.

Anyway, I can't help also wondering why GuyDog uses so little cpu compared to Puppy Precise 5.6.1 when using mplayer or flash (it was also significantly better than Slacko 533 in regards to flash cpu usage - I didn't test mplayer back then).

But how do I change debian wheezy kernel to 2.6.x one (or in light core squeeze if can't do that with wheezy)?
github mcewanw

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#2480 Post by saintless »

mcewanw wrote:But how do I change debian wheezy kernel to 2.6.x one (or in light core squeeze if can't do that with wheezy)?
I'm not sure you can use 2.6 kernel with Wheezy safely. Better try with Squeeze since 2.6 is default kernel there.
Use this to find the exact kernel version:

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apt-cache search linux-image-2
And replace the version in this example:
saintless wrote:...If you are not going to change the kernel with 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-686-pae don't read this section.

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apt-cache search linux-image-3
Choose the kernel you prefer or this one:

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apt-get -t squeeze-backports install linux-image-3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-pae firmware-linux-free
I had a breaking here because of low ram issue while depmod. If it happen type:

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dpkg --configure -a
It will finish the process.

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cd /boot
ls
Now create initrd.img for the newer kernel:

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mkinitramfs -o initrd-3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-pae.img 3.2.0-0.bpo.4-rt-pae
Then copy the vmlinuz and initrd to live folder and rename them to initrd.img and vmlinuz after removing the old.
You might also have to create link from /boot/initrd.img to / if it is broken but it does not matter since we will remove /boot folder at the end.
If everything went well after reboot you will have new kernel. Type to confirm:

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uname -r
Then remove the older kernels with:

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apt-get purge linux-image-2.6.32-5-486
apt-get purge linux-image-2.6.32-5-686

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apt-get autoremove
--======================================

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