UEFI Drove Me Home

[Sky Aisling]

Lockdown
The coming war on general-purpose computing

http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html

[greengeek]

Great article. Halfway through the comments section was a reference to another similar article listing other potential points of lockdown:
http://www.tnl.net/blog/2010/05/30/internet-lockdown/

[greengeek]

Another fascinating comment from that article:

Code: Select all

YOU (techies) who think that the world is some free open society where everything should be allowed is:  immature, unrealistic, self serving, obnoxious, unsophisticated and lives in a bubble.  YOU (techies) are just a small percent of any population like any clique or group or organization.  YOU’RE needs do not, cannot and will not dictate the wants and needs of us all.  

I am often stunned by the deliberately blind attitudes of those who are part of the 'group'. So many people are really happy to be inside the bell curve as long as their chosen masters keep them fed and entertained. Doesn't matter how much control gets exerted by those masters, or how many unreasonable restrictions there are, or how many people die to fund the welfare of the 'group' - as long as the telly stays on and the entertainment keeps on coming...

Sorry if I'm straying off topic but I really want a world where I make my own decisions about what I do with my hardware and my internet access. Punish those who do wrong but leave the rest of us alone and stop limiting us and spying on us.

{end of personal rant}

[Sky Aisling]

greengeek writes:

Sorry if I'm straying off topic but I really want a world where I make my own decisions about what I do with my hardware and my internet access. Punish those who do wrong but leave the rest of us alone and stop limiting us and spying on us.

greengeek, you are on the path. No apologies needed.

Here's what we've got going in the States.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the ... d-to-know/

[8-bit]

Sky Aisling,
It is interesting that when I try to access that link with NoScript on, the page is mostly blank!
It makes one wonder sometimes if some sites deliberately set up their pages using scripts to encourage the viewer to allow scripts.
This in turn gets the user to allow site pages to bypass NoScript.
So what is actually going on that one does not know about in allowing those scripts to run?

[nooby]

Guys the following is most likely a very naive take on it all.

I lean towards the notion that in the future we have to

I mean the Linux enthusiasts need to set up versions of
Crowdsourced hardware that runs Linux. We need to pay
the manufactors which means we need to be as many as possible
that support free hardware.

am I on the right track or is it a pipe dream what ever who cares

[Moose On The Loose]

Greengeek thanks for the link indeed.
re your concern

Or worse - require that any PC using the internet has a UEFI/bios
that is government approved. If you have no official UEFI passcode
then you get no internet access.

I share that concern. I usually dismiss all kinds of "conspiracy"
but what you write is no such overly paranoic view at all.

Many folks in the US who use Comcast to get onto the net has discovered that Comcast won't let email packets on port 25 go over their network. They have been found to be messing with bot torrent. There are some that say that if your personal web page with them gets too popular, it mysteriously vanishes or quits working. I have not seen any proof of a pattern on the last one.

Way back when, you could open your own radio station. Today a few large corporations basically rule the airwaves. Before that, newpapers had the same thing happen. We see it currently finishing happening to TV and starting to happen to the internet. Any time a new technology gives the public a means to communicate, a fight begins over control over that communications. The internet is not going to be an exception and only if enough of the public gets involved will the fight be won by the public in general instead of by either government or corporate interests.

[greengeek]

I mean the Linux enthusiasts need to set up versions of Crowdsourced hardware that runs Linux. We need to pay the manufactors which means we need to be as many as possible that support free hardware.

I think you are right - if we don't pay to ensure that unrestricted hardware is available then we will lose it.

However, there is another problem - it is all very well having an unrestricted PC running Puppy at home, but that is not much use if the ISP then refuses to let your data packets through the network (on the basis that it is from an "untrusted source").

It would be very easy for governments to pass further laws restricting the behaviour of ISPs, and possibly even making it illegal to use unrestricted routers to connect to the internet. Very, very easy to force routers to pass only 'authorised' data packets that fully identify the machine that originated them. UEFI is likely to form part of that authorisation chain.

The authorisation itself is not a problem for those of us who do nothing illegal, but a tighter UEFI would prevent that hardware running Puppy or any other unapproved homebuilt OS.

Without substantial public awareness and rejection of such a move I predict it will be not that far away...
.

[nooby]

it is all very well having an unrestricted PC running Puppy at home,
but that is not much use if the ISP then refuses to let your data packets
through the network (on the basis that it is from an "untrusted source").

You are more realistic than what I am. I am way too naive and trusty.

The regulation on HAM Radio and what is it named PR?
you buy very cheap walkie talkies in nearest Mall and
they can talk to similar units over the UHF say 450MHz something
(not important exact figure of MHz) the important thing is that

the authorities realize that both HAM Radio and PR?
could be used as relay stations for a free open source
kind of unregulated internet so they have passed laws
that forbid such content unless it is totally harmless
about the antenna and power to the antenna and position
and the weather and if you have kids and live in apartment
or your own house.

Politics and religion and criticism of the gov and so on is
strictly forbidden.

Relaying such will make you making a crime too.

So they have foreseen that we want to be able
to have free exchanges of ideas.

*** I make some huge derail further down don't read it.
Okay back on topic.

I am as pessimistic as your are The authorities can change
the situation without even caring to ask us what we want.

They did that in Sweden. FRA that got allowed FRA Defence Radio A....?)
to listen to any communication or internet traffic between
foreign countries if the data traffic passed the Swedish servers
and Finland disliked it so much they promised to refuse
to let their traffic to pass Sweden.

And worse the FRA sell this info they gathre to US and England
and get secrets back about Swedes as a pay off for what we reveal.

So it is heading down the drain and there seems to be very little
we can do about it other than voice our opposition.

*****

I am not into politics and I am a religious atheist
and such is so rare that despite that I have sought for some 10 years ?
and I have looked in Atheist forums for somebody like myself
But I have totally failed and I am still totally alone having nobody
th share this version of Religious Atheism with.

As a religious atheist my style then ou know that
there most likely are no God at all but you are also
100% sure of that God exist as a cultural "tool"
(sadly exploited by politicians ) but if you use
the tool wisely it can be of great help to give
a hopeless lonely life at least something
to be happy about.

Sure it is a kind of open Placebo you know you fool yourself.

End of derail sorry

[Sky Aisling]

Without substantial public awareness and rejection of such a move I predict it will be not that far away...

Isn't Google's OS a Linux OS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS

I have a feeling it isn't us little folks who are the issue.

[greengeek]

Isn't Google's OS a Linux OS?

True, but as a large corporate they are more than capable of staying inside the "circle of trust" that would qualify to have authentication codes acceptable to a UEFI machine. Just like the ISPs, Google and similar corporates are agents of governments rather than agents of individual creativity.

If the UEFI spec was to be tightened up Google would be as likely as Apple and Microsoft to be running OS code that was acceptable to the enforcement agencies. The small fry who didn't want to use the major OS offerings would be out in the cold...

[Sky Aisling]

Thanks, greengeek,
I got it!

[puppyluvr]

Hello,
Ironically, Google OS started out as a Puppy!
The Dev started out with a Puppy build called
Guppy (Google Puppy). Or so the story goes.
He even sued his former employers, Google,
over credit/compensation..

[nooby]

Without substantial public awareness and rejection of such a move I predict it will be not that far away...

Isn't Google's OS a Linux OS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS

I have a feeling it isn't us little folks who are the issue.

The kernel is Linux but is it really GNU? Puppy use GNU/Linux

But Google have their own overlay. So the Kernel is Linux
but it is not GNU so it is open source in the sense that
you can look at the code and download certain things
but not use standard GNU Linux program as is.

You have to use Crome OS programs and apps.

But I can be totally wrong but I should have heard of if
Google where 100% compatible. Maybe me where sleeping

[zaivala]

Don't see any development on Guppy since 2006...

[nooby]

Don't see any development on Guppy since 2006...

Guppy being short for GooglePuppy? But did google ChromeOS exist
already then?

so what did it refer to? We are derailing the thread about UEFI

Have you managed to install a linux on your UEFI machine then

Edit I remember a bit better now. That Guppy OS guy
was active here and clarified his view on the relation.

[zaivala]

LOL It got derailed a long time ago.

There are only two ways to load Linux on a UEFI machine. One involves a complete reformat of the hard drive so that it has an MBR (Master Boot Record), and the other is to use a Linux which has a (still experimental) UEFI boot loader.

Happy with Puppy. Trying to get FatDog64 or another 64-bit to run, but happy with what I have.

[zaivala]

...and the third is to run Puppy from disk, or another LiveDisk setup (although Puppies work better, as they are *designed* to run off disk and load to RAM).

I finally got tired of waiting for a reply from Pig, the ASUS tech, and got into live chat with another ASUS tech. He gave me an RMA and mailing label... so if I still have my boxes I can send it back to them. Then I'll have to go through all my Puppy setup again. Not going back to Windoze 8 full-time, but don't want something left to complain about... or maybe I won't send it back. Still happy with the way it's running, just wanted to end the complaint.

[shagguar]

LOL It got derailed a long time ago.

There are only two ways to load Linux on a UEFI machine. One involves a complete reformat of the hard drive so that it has an MBR (Master Boot Record), and the other is to use a Linux which has a (still experimental) UEFI boot loader.

Happy with Puppy. Trying to get FatDog64 or another 64-bit to run, but happy with what I have.

I hate UEFI, but i really don't want to remake my partition table to MBR.
But i runned (and still do) succesfully Fatdog64 & LightHouse 64 (64bit puppies). Just copied the required files of both ISOs to 2 folders in a partition and manually made respective GRUB entries (i have dual boot W8 & Ubuntu 12.04).

[zaivala]

I'd love to talk to you about how you did that, but it would take up too much forum time... email?

I'm still torn whether to ship the computer back to ASUS for Windoze restoration or just keep Puppying.