raffy wrote:@Whodo: You made Lobster's head swim with your long post- now he wrote 2.13CE for 2.15CE. Maybe the water is hot in these places.
Yum. Lobster Thermidor!
raffy wrote:My advise: just post your proposed release schedule and we will vote on it. As Barry is anticipating the release of Up up in 5 days, maybe release a bugfix version any day now?
That should also calm Robert. Let's understand that he is frantic to deploy for the cybercafes, and want the best Puppy to be deployed there. Of course we know that you're in the best position to help him, and in so doing also the rest of us.
raffy, this isn't about Robert getting a solid base for his Cybercafe project. He has already said that he is quite capable of applying the patches provided for that. It is instead about Robert dictating when is the appropriate time to release an official update! The last time I checked that decision wasn't his to make! Robert seems obsessed with the idea that he is the only one with a hotline to the Puppy user base; by which he generally means
his clients. I keep trying to tell him that the Puppy community is much wider than that, and not all of them share HIS concerns about the 4.2 release and its problems.
@All - It is clear from some of the posts here that I need to reiterate why I believe an update release has not been appropriate, although I have posted my reasons here on the forum before.
1. Puppy 4.2, code named "Deep Thought", was only released a little before Easter. If we posted a so-called bug fix update within a week or two, how much "Deep Thought" would the wider Linux community have perceived went into the original release? We would have been a laughing stock, despite being in the same position as many other releases when it comes to relatively MINOR bugs. It is all about credibility with Linux. When you reach the top of any tree, there are those who want to bring you down as quickly as possible - usually so they can take your place. Puppy is no different in that respect. Look at the commentary on Distrowatch when PCLinuxOS made it the top, and how there are those now crowing about its recent fall from grace.
2. The identified bugs have repeatedly been characterised by ecomoney as "showstopper" bugs. To my mind that demonstrates a general lack of understanding of the term. Everything in Puppy 4.2 works as it should for MOST people in MOST situations. Nothing is "broken" in that sense. Abiword processes words and CUPS prints them. Yes, there are things that need to be fixed, and there have been fixes posted in the forum in the appropriate place. Having a link to the Patches & Updates thread on the Download page is a good idea. Yes there are things that worked well in 4.12 that seem problematic in 4.2, BUT telling people to revert to 4.12 gives an entirely negative impression from its source; the Puppy community. We would seriously lose credibility by publicising that we had launched a "faulty" product when in fact it had fewer bugs than almost any other release before it! 4.1 was followed by 4.11 and then 4.12 - not unusual for a new format release. We needed 4.2 to say to the wider community "
Barry's having a rest but Puppy will go on regardless". Posting quick fix releases is counterproductive to that, especially when the bugs are comparatively minor and relatively few in number.
The time is certainly approaching when it
will be appropriate to release 4.2.1, or perhaps even 4.3 although the latter is considerably further off at the moment. The question I face every day is "Is the time right?", and so far the answer has been no. Every day since 4.2 was released and the first problem was discovered, ecomoney has been "in my ear", both through the forum and PM's, to pull the ISO's from our mirrors and upload a bug fixed version. I'd give him A+ for stubborn persistence if nothing else. I do NOT need someone else second guessing my judgements about when it is appropriate to release, and applying whatever pressure to get their own way. I have enough voices in my head already!
What many of you don't know about the 4.2 release is that while there were some voices on the forum saying "it's not ready yet", there were many others INCLUDING BARRY, telling me it was time to release and not to worry about finding more bugs ..."there are always bugs"(sic) said Barry.
I have to be concerned with the WHOLE of the Puppy community, and protecting the Puppy ethos as well as our credibility. It would be a mistake to give too much credence to a few "squeeky wheels" crying for things to be fixed and fixed NOW! Although this is a community distribution now, and Barry has made that abundantly clear on his Blog and elsewhere, that doesn't mean it should be run by committee. You've all heard the story that the camel was intended to be a horse but it was designed by a committee! There is room for community input, and certainly room for some compromise to suit the community view of things, but ultimately there must be only ONE person making the final choices. Otherwise you will have anarchy and chaos will be its product.
I will leave the poll to run its course. I chose 7 days so even infrequent visitors could exercise their vote. On the early returns it looks like I'm going to be stuck with the job. I had secretly hoped that I could go back to a more sedentary involvement in Puppy.
I have no regrets about posting this issue here, as public as it is. I don't see it as airing dirty laundry. I see it as being fully transparent in our governance. There are no secret committees, no hidden agendas and no ulterior motives or hidden influences within the Puppy community development effort. That should now be very clear. I also don't believe the community should be asked to vote every time there is an issue to be decided, otherwise why bother with a coordinator; so no vote on a possible release schedule. If I supported that course we would be stuck designing camels instead of Puppies.
I am aware that Barry will be releasing a radical new "think piece" to publicise Woof! I am tempted to release 4.2.1 at or before that time in order to capitalise on any renewed interest in Puppy, but I haven't come to a final decision on that yet. I'm stockpiling patches and updates to that end at the moment, and the devs and packagers are quietly supplying those to me in the background.
@ecomoney - while I don't like taking this course, I have decided that I will not respond to any PM from you again until I'm fully satisfied you understand and are ready to accept that your agenda isn't the only agenda or even the most important one. I don't believe you should be banned, but I do admit to secretly hoping I didn't have to deal with your bullying methods, regardless of how well intentioned they may be.
@Other posters - I will attempt to answer legitimate questions about my choices in this thread until the poll closes. After that I will expect to be allowed to do the job for which I volunteered without having to publicly or privately justify my every decision. If that can't happen, then perhaps ecomoney is right and I'm not the man for the job. There is enough work to do without being required to explain every small step taken to achieve the goal. I am not really having FUN, but I am giving back some of what I have received courtesy of Puppy and the community and for the moment that's good enough.