Phoenix CE and Lassie CE

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Lobster · #21 Post by **Lobster** » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 12:58

Rudy

Yes TS will be based on 2.18 (all going well) An alpha of 2.18 is expected soon. As 2.18 is 2.17 stabilised, we can already implement some components . . .

That would be fantastic. I am going to be working on an intro to TS (Talking Stick). This will be in HTML. I estimate 5 to 7 pages. What I suggest is some form of small repeating loops.

I would produce your music in ogg format (this can always be converted) I would aim for 5 track of 50k max each. HOWEVER your suggestions and ideas are most welcome as you will be doing the composing / recording.

Good luck with Shard and Prism. My next Linux tmxxine (Vision) will be based on Puppy 2.18 or Talking Stick. If you want to create some New Age type music for that (perhaps based on overtone chanting) that would be fun . . .

cb88 · #22 Post by **cb88** » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 14:06

go to http://www.modulez.org and http://www.modules.pl to get and idea what kind of music I was talking about ogg is essentially only a container format not the compression and the ogg files i have heard in puppy were not good even though ogg can be excellent. xmms can play mod xm it among some other formats through milkmod http://mikmod.raphnet.net/ they are not recorded music formats but directly coded like assembly language for music but it does not seem too hard. many songs are not over 4k the extra size of some songs is higher quality or more custom samples that can be played like notes at various tones and speeds. while low bitrate ogg will not be smooth modules will be since they are like advanced MIDI files

to code module music you will need a tracker here is a link to one that looks pretty complete to me but need to be compiled so far all of my module experience has been on windows

http://www.soundtracker.org/screenshots.php3

This should definitly be included in a music puplet

tronkel · #23 Post by **tronkel** » Thu 23 Aug 2007, 17:10

Pizzasgood wrote:

But isn't this chroot scheme pretty similar to that hardly used feature Barry bestowed upon Puppy, I think called "underdog" or something?

Why not use this idea in 2.19CE?
This is a simple little script I wrote that starts Underdog and gets rid of it if required

Read about it here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 27&t=13750

Wrote this ages ago. Might come in useful now.
I think Barry intended this as a little experimantal novelty at the time. It doesn't run every app installed in the underlying distro, but can be very handy for some of them and also some command-line tools that Puppy does not have (yet). e.g. tgz2rpm and such similar utilities.

I've always thought that this was an under-utilised feature of Puppy. Don't understand why this is the case. It's useful IMHO.

cb88 · #24 Post by **cb88** » Fri 24 Aug 2007, 00:06

here is a link to a .pet of soundtracker I compiled. It is my first dotpet. it is a sort of low level music creation software and is very cool in my opinion.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=21125

Rudy · #25 Post by **Rudy** » Fri 24 Aug 2007, 12:02

cb88:
Thanks. I will certainly have a look at it.
I worked a lot with a tracker called "buzz", excellent software (somehow discontinued) - but only to create sound-samples in WAV format.
Trackers are nice, and yes, the "note sheets" are small in size - likewise MIDI files, one of the best formats.
But you are also restricted to the sound creation potential of the selected player..
I understand that size is an issue (now that I got lobster's requirements

) and will test some stuff (your link*).
MIDI is a nice choice: standard and works on most webpages - but do we have something loaded during setup that can play a midi file - xmms?
Then again: I heard the DEMO-scene is capable of coding entire 3D- games plus sound into <64kB - but this is not my league

sorry.
Here I can't help - need advice or somebody elso must take over.

(*) I tried the link to your soundtracker.pet but I get this message: "Error #2 SQL requests not achieved"... maybe it's my browser (firefox)?
Please help.

Lobster · #26 Post by **Lobster** » Fri 24 Aug 2007, 12:24

To play midi files, you require Timidity ((Puppy Package Manager) on the "Setup" menu item will give you that. It is a large program, several MB's

Music files (in my experience) are easier to run as mp3 files which are about a fifth of the size of comparable wav files)

Ideally I would like to use ogg files but I suggest (on reflection) mp3 is probably best / easiest

Also though there are components of Talking Stick I can do - I could even do a basic remaster - to use unleashed requires more skills than I have and we need someone for that.

Rudy · #27 Post by **Rudy** » Fri 24 Aug 2007, 13:53

Lobster: I support the mp3/ogg view. Call me lazy, but that's what i'm accustomed to

Meanwhile i have made some research and came accross tracker programs called "beast" and "schism".
But these apparently need compilation - surpasses my talents...

I uncovered a tracker on another computer which can produce the formats cb88 mentions (IT, MOD, ...)
and tinkered a bit with it -

i am not sure if i want to get back to these days.
Nice progs, fun, but i guess i just got too comfortable over the last years sitting in my big chair looking out the window.

Please let me think it all over this weekend.
Somebody else happy coding music with tracker software?

cb88 · #28 Post by **cb88** » Fri 24 Aug 2007, 16:00

@rudy actually the soudtracker program i posted is very easy to compile as long as you have devx_xxx.sfs installed i posted instructions for compiling the program in the same post where the dotpet is chances are that the dotpet doesn't work anyway

also you are not restricted to sound creation by the player you can include custom samples independent of the player very powerful ability midi files do not have this ablilit that i know of

one more thing! entire 3d worlds have been coded in 4kb with sound i also find it amazing that an almost complete C64 emulator was coded in 64Kb think about this 100Kb x 100programs = just 10mb

edit:
ok am going to reupload i am pretty sure it works now 8/24/07

cb88 · #29 Post by **cb88** » Sat 25 Aug 2007, 00:35

what about .sid music files? they are 8-bit sound files and are extremely small made for c64 but there are players for other platforms.

here is a console and gui sid player called tinysid it already has a menu entry in multimedia and can also be used from the commandline

both players to get there are only about 65KB

Rudy · #30 Post by **Rudy** » Sat 25 Aug 2007, 15:37

cb88: of course, you are right in every point.

Let's leave it there.
Your downloads now work flawlessly! Thanks a lot. Will have a look at it.

I will now concentrate on making music, and submit some ogg/mp3 files.

IF (somebody likes that stuff) AND (we really run into size issues after getting XFCE inside the new 2.19) I MIGHT (reconsider mapping it into whatever .format the community would like to see it.)

Lobster: your new age sound sample for tmxxine probably comes first...

keithcleaver · #31 Post by **keithcleaver** » Sat 25 Aug 2007, 17:58

Lobster wrote: Anyone fancy working on the default browser page?
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/TalkingStickWebpage

I've got some a bit of spare time at the moment, so I'd be happy to look at the page and make any changes as necessary.

Lobster · #32 Post by **Lobster** » Sat 25 Aug 2007, 20:10

Lobster: your new age sound sample for tmxxine probably comes first... Cool

Look forward to hearing that Rudy

keithcleaver wrote: I've got some a bit of spare time at the moment, so I'd be happy to look at the page and make any changes as necessary.

Good news
be interested to see what you come up with

You can base it on the old Viz work or come up with something new -
up to you

cb88 · #33 Post by **cb88** » Sat 25 Aug 2007, 20:17

@rudy that is great since tracking is still new to me also i might release a new version of my vista blue icewm theme

also there is milkytracker it runs on puppy but i haven't gotten the sound to work you may want to give it a try i think it needs SDL installed

Lobster · #34 Post by **Lobster** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 01:55

What are our priorities?

New icon set? Or use the crystal set from Viz?
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2007/08 ... icon-sets/

Multimedia?
Upgraded browser?
Reliability?

Do we need polls to decide some direction?

cb88 · #35 Post by **cb88** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 03:03

well here is my take on it

-=low priority
+=high priority

-icons
-xfce4.4(personally i'd rather see it as a package as i like icewm it is easy to theme)
+opera or maybe iceweasel
+music player xmms is still cool upgrades(don't forget to put the milkmod plugin in whatever audio player if any is choosen)
+VLC i have hear that VLC is good even on old PCs what do you think?
+tinysid and xtinysid player they are so small why not!
+++tons of tiny progams working on a flight sim!

edit: uploaded banks flight sim in Dotpups go look if you like it is very simple and only 12kb a launcher for it would be nice to allow selection of scenery syntax is simple cat bb.sc horizon.sc mountians.sc | banks must be in the the same directory i think

tempestuous · #36 Post by **tempestuous** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 05:00

cb88 wrote:+VLC i have hear that VLC is good even on old PCs what do you think?

This is a common rumour, but it doesn't hold true. I contributed VLC for Puppy here -
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=13863
VLC works no better than MPlayer on my Pentium1 laptop. And it's a large application with a few extra dependencies such as wxWidgets.

NinerSevenTango · #37 Post by **NinerSevenTango** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 06:47

cb88 wrote:uploaded banks flight sim in Dotpups go look if you like it is very simple and only 12kb a launcher for it would be nice to allow selection of scenery syntax is simple cat bb.sc horizon.sc mountians.sc | banks must be in the the same directory i think

A 12 kb flight sime? Where is it?

--97T--

cb88 · #38 Post by **cb88** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 13:14

It is here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=21206

too bad about VLC how does it compare on a Pentium 2?
do you have any other sugestions? and what are you capable of doing with a pentium 1?

ecomoney · #39 Post by **ecomoney** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 17:16

Hello all. I can see you have all got started and its great to see such enthusiasm and people offering their help.

# Extremely friendly for Linux newbies.
# Boot up and run extraordinarily fast.
# Have all the applications needed for daily use.
# Will just work, no hassles.
# Will breathe new life into old PCs

Its important to remember, as Puppy Linux Developers, were not developing puppy for our own use . Were developing it for Linux Newbies. Not computer newbies, but people switching from *other* operating systems.

I work part time at a public cybercafe, where we provide free internet access and it facilities. We also have a constant stream of people coming in with broken, virused up and slow windows computers, often that they have spent many hundreds of pounds on. We also have another group of people that cannot afford new computers, but need access to the internet to access local currency schemes, the freecycle network for other goods, the jobsites and their online banking. Another group are poorer parents buying computers for their children, so they will not get left out of the social lives that their richer classmates enjoy using messenger, bebo and myspace. The cybercafe has been full of people all through the summer holidays. We "sell" computers for a donation to the centre at a rate of about one per day. Just about every street in our neighbourhood has at least one puppy computer on it.

Puppy linux is great as it will run on older p.c.s that the other operating systems wont, and will install on windows computers without wiping data with reformatting and repartitioning. It has all of the applications people need for day to day use. It is 99% there...but there are still a few creases to iron out.

The last puppy 2.15ce had a new feature. When other puppies were shut down incorrectly, it booted back up to the command line, leaving a screen of unintelligible (to the end user) code and having to type in "xwin" at the end (which was often missed). Puppy 2.15ce brought up a message about shutting down properly and gave an option to continu booting X or dropping down to the command line. Just adding this feature brought about a complete shift in how the people at the centre viewed puppy. It was a system that held their hand and guided them along.

Puppy needs these last few but critically important things need polishing out, and it will become the perfect tool for weaning computer users away from Microsoft with all their shenanigans.

Lets Go For It!!!!

Woof Woof!!!

Eyes-Only · #40 Post by **Eyes-Only** » Sun 26 Aug 2007, 17:51

Hear! Hear! Couldn't have expressed it better myself Ecomoney! And with a picture at that! Then when I stopped and thought of at least "one puppy computer on every street in your neighbourhood..." I said right out loud, "Wow!" Incredible, eh?

How right you are though that the goal should be upon people coming over from "that other computer system" (and quite possibly frustrated as hell at the time!), and also those new to computers as well. Very few will be the "Computer Literatti" with whom we're mostly familiar and accustomed. Excellent point indeed! And so a lofty goal to keep in mind throughout the project.

Just my 2 pieces of wampum anyway.

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

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Phoenix CE and Lassie CE

Re: music

Talking stick, 2.19CE

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