Puppy Linux 2.17 has already been released...

[craftybytes]

I'm one of those people who just sits in the background and uses Puppy and have been very pleased with many of the 'released' versions - some I found didn't make much difference to the one before it - others had substantial differences.. Currently I run Puppy v215CE (community edition) as my main Puppy and it meets and exceeds all of my present needs on a day-to-day basis - BUT - I still 'play' with the later versions to see if they have any improvements that would temp me to 'try' it and maybe use it instead of 215CE.. However whatever version I choose to use - IT IS MY CHOICE - not Barry's..!

As one of the above posters' has already stated - you will not find any of the Linux distros that have ever been released not have any bugs nor will you find 'standard' release periods.. I believe that almost from the first few versions of Puppy that Barry has stated in his release notes of his aim to release 'updated' versions every 6-8 weeks.. Puppy is no different from other distros where 'bugs' are concerned - that is where 'testers' & other 'users' come in - they try the OS and hopefully report back any 'bugs' / problems for eventual fixing..

Where 'release' periods are concerned - they are Barry's preemptive - every 2 months is fine by me as a general Puppy user - if the new version doesn't meet one's present needs - THEN DON'T UPDATE ( just for the sake of having the newer version), keep using the version that 'works' for you is what I say..

For WIW, I feel that if Barry does go ahead and do his 'schism' then the Puppy community as it is will be the worse off for it - splitting the COMMON community of current users into 2 camps will eventually lead to a lot of disgruntled, unhappy and confused users..

PLEASE NOTE PEOPLE : this is Barry Kauler's "Puppy" - HE is the prime mover for this distro.. Barry released "Puppy" (for free) to the web as HIS contribution to the overall worldwide Linux OS base - and it was his choice to do so.. Fortunately, you, I, and many other computer users (both Linux & windows) eventually found Puppy and decided (our own choice - not Barry's) to adopt it as a good OS to run on our own computer setups (if not the best one) either with one or more other Linux distros and / or with some version of Windows or just on it's own - AND THAT IS OUR CHOICE - Barry just provided the 'tool' - we (as puppyites) CHOOSE to use this 'tool'..

My suggestion to all this 'hubub' over short release periods is - LIVE WITH IT - IF THERE IS A VERSION YOUR NOT HAPPY WITH, DON'T USE IT..

If I don't feel like upgrading, well so what - it's my choice. I am all for the current release cycle as it keeps Puppy interesting..

As DaveDX said:
[quote]I support Barry in what ever he decides. After all, it's his distribution. I'm thankful that he allows others, myself included, to use it for free. I have found it to be the best overall distribution for me. [/quote]

crafty.
.

[Getnikar]

I upgraded to 217 yesterday, and found the process very simple and easy. Nice work Barry.

I have 4 different pup_saves: 1 main one, and 3 others. All upgraded effortlessly. I made tarballs of /tmp/versioncleanup each time, before reboot, so if I later find something amiss, I can get original stuff back. Plus all pup_saves are backed up before upgrade anyway.

I can see that there is a problem with other developers and their packages and highly hacked machines having to be reworked each time. That is an issue that several people are working on. Its an issue that is probably not a key focus for Barry, as he is bringing out a distro for new users, and it has limited features for ongoing software release management., ie no Debian/RPM or similar.

Perhaps there is an assumption by some significant co-developers or downstream distro producers that Puppy/Barry should focus more on their needs, and this is causing some friction.

Anyhow, I think I will go have a nice lie-down and wait for further news from Barry.

[John Doe]

How can this early release be justified?

you having any specific problems?

or just looking at the clock?

[jonyo]

Easy, I feel like it.. (EDIT- bahh, missed the below notes ) I do things my way as others do things their way. Pups all about goin against the grain. Folk were told the world was flat - don't go to far, might fall off the edge into
the abyss. The earth is the center of the universe..
Edit -Bottom line is everyone's diff. What works for one, doesn't for another.

How can this early release be justified?

you having any specific problems?

or just looking at the clock?

[gary101]

An interesting post!

I think I can understand those who would favour a longer release cycle, it is possible frustration at being torn between your Puppy that you have spent time getting set up just the way you want and going for the latest version with all the excitement that that entails.

Unfortunately we cannot have our bone and eat it.There is a personal choice to be made and we should not blame anyone else if we cannot make it.

I for one try the new versions from CD before I decide whether to upgrade and surely this is the beauty of Barry's creation?

There have been several very interesting points raised in this thread, especially about the smaller projects making the most headway. I think that linux in general was right to go more user friendly in an effort to appeal to windows refugees but some distributions have now become bloated and are starting to imitate M$ in ways which the refugees where trying to escape from in the first place.

Sometimes I think we all need to stand back for a couple of minutes and get some perspective. Lets have a look at what we have got............

We have a first rate distribution that costs us not a penny. We can choose to install to a plethora of media including CF card or just run from live CD. We have a fast operating system that I have yet to see anyone else match. We have a good support infrastructure through this forum where new users can get the help they need to start off. We have a choice of versions that we can choose from and if that is not enough we can 'roll our own' through the remastering tools. We also have an OS that in my opinion is better than anything else out there.

I for one can find nothing to complain about and if Barry wishes to have a new release every week then I am still a happy puppy because not only has Barry given us an A1 operating system, he has also given us a choice of how we use it, a fact I think it is important not to ignore.

Thank you Barry! I for one appreciate all of your efforts and long may you continue to do it your own way!

[John Doe]

hmmm...

reminds me of, "if the majority was always right, the earth would still be flat".

don't forget, "knowlege is infinite therefore you will always be infinitly ignorant".

ying/yang is so much more cooler...no polls or polarization, just happy melding...

there is no grain to go against.

Easy, I feel like it..Pups all about goin against the grain. Folk were told the world was flat - don't go to far, might fall off the edge into
the abyss. The earth is the center of the universe..

How can this early release be justified?

you having any specific problems?

or just looking at the clock?

[WhoDo]

the development team are working on ways to integrate that with PETget so there is a one-stop-shop for applications.

Outa curiosity, who's on this team?

Barry, MU and I think Dougal and Pizzasgood. Pizzasgood is out of contact at the moment, but he may well be working on it in the quiet of his country retreat. He was involved to try and tie things in with Pet-be-gone.

[Gekko]

Noone is looking at it from the global scale, only the local. Think about the fact that not every user of Puppy goes to this forum, let alone know it exists.

They come on IRC with random versions that were released within consecutive months, all with similar problems, all with different fixes required due possibly due to one minor, undocumented change in a script; or a library version change.

You do not understand the hell of diagnosing the problem, trying to fix it, then realising it is something version specific. Then a new version is released. It takes you a month to understand all the pitfalls and have them ready for the coming people who need support. BAM another release. That is my reason.

[John Doe]

Barry, MU and I think Dougal and Pizzasgood.

that's a good team.

they all know this inside and out.

[John Doe]

You do not understand the hell of diagnosing the problem, trying to fix it, then realising it is something version specific. Then a new version is released. It takes you a month to understand all the pitfalls and have them ready for the coming people who need support. BAM another release. That is my reason.

that's good reasoning. i just think you are wrong.

for instance "You do not understand the hell of diagnosing the problem, trying to fix it, then realising it is something version specific":

here i made a "version" call it 2.17~square?root?of?2:

here i tried to fix it:

...oh wait that's the same url...

here i tried the "hell of diagnosing [it]" (dont' forget to follow it back to the beginning):

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 086#129086

furthermore.."Then a new version is released.."

yes and it should work better because of efforts like the above...

what pitfalls do you speak of? we can help with those if you ask. please ask patience of the IRC members, not all solutions are instant but are obtainable.

[DavidBell]

.... trying to fix it, then realising it is something version specific....

I used ubuntu for a little while, while they have a roughly six month release cycle there were automatic updtaes were coming in every other day and one in five of these made more problems than they fixed (until fixed in a new update a few days later). It used to drive me crazy, so you have to keep in mind that it's not just the release cycle period that matters, or even the release process.

Personally I would prefer the Puppy releases to be a bit further apart but if that's what BarryK want's to do I can't stop him. I just skip a few releases before updating ... and BarryK can't stop me doing that

I can see it would be difficult if you are trying to support other users. I guess one way around would be just to support certain versions ... so you can just say to your 'clients' - "I support 2.12, 2.15, 2.17 ... etc, if you have a running Puppy don't stuff around with it, if you are going to upgrade anyway go for one of the versions on my list, if you have a problem upgrade to one of the versions on my list before asking me for help" Is that too harsh?

DB

[Getnikar]

Noone is looking at it from the global scale, only the local. Think about the fact that not every user of Puppy goes to this forum, let alone know it exists.

They come on IRC with random versions that were released within consecutive months, all with similar problems, all with different fixes required due possibly due to one minor, undocumented change in a script; or a library version change.

You do not understand the hell of diagnosing the problem, trying to fix it, then realising it is something version specific. Then a new version is released. It takes you a month to understand all the pitfalls and have them ready for the coming people who need support. BAM another release. That is my reason.

Well you logic does not make sense. If people come onto IRC, with a problem with a version, say its a version of Xmas 2006. its irrelevant whether a fix has since come via an upgrade, or a patch within an upgrade. Say it were Ubuntu, the problem might be in fixed in a patch in Edgy or in Feisty, or still unfixed. Say its were puppy, the fix might be in ... who cares: it is either fixed or not. It all cases the first thing to do is check, 'Is it fixed yet.' If so, get the latest. Version. Simple. Who cares how many versions are in between: its irrelevant.

You seem to be suggesting Barry slow down releases for the sake of people with problems in old versions who will not upgrade to the latest. This sounds like a bad idea to me.

[cthisbear]

" Ralph Sarich

Ralph Tony Sarich (born December 10, 1938) is a West Australian multi millionaire businessman and qualified engineer who was responsible for developing the Orbital Engine in 1972. Also developed the orbital combustion process engine, which is based on a re-designed two stroke engine using direct gasolene injection. "

http://www.answers.com/topic/ralph-sarich

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
" Political problems?

A conspiracy theory known to almost all mechanically-inclined Australians holds that the patent for the Sarich Orbital engine was exclusively licensed and then suppressed by Ford, perhaps in order to prevent a drop in oil prices, or simply to maintain the value of existing manufacturing facilities, should the highly efficient engine displace conventional piston engines. "

http://www.answers.com/topic/orbital-engine

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
And now Ford is going to close the Geelong engine plant because they
held technology but were just too smart for themselves to use it.
Are there parallels in computing here?

//////////////////////////////////////////////////
Temptation:

I am sure the money............a Great Swag of riches has been offered to you to sell Puppy. This might be one of those scenarios.
And if you did ...why not?

Too much sloppy software out there posing as High Tech.
You reversed everything and made Low Tech hardware
go faster than most could dream of....let alone achieve.

Whatever decision.............for the majority of us out here you've
been a good sport, a great friend, a giver.

If the party has to end....then we will miss the cheer you have
bestowed on us.

Regards and all our goodwill in whatever plans you have....Chris

[Dougal]

Barry, MU and I think Dougal and Pizzasgood.

What exactly is this thing I'm supposed to be working on?
There is no -- and never has been -- "team" involving Barry. In case people haven't noticed, he always works alone.
It's also his Puppy, so he's free to do with it what (and how) he likes.

I strongly disagree with Barry about how he implemented some things, but it's his choice -- what I don't like I just change to how I think it should be done.

DaveDX summed this matter well (first page):

The old saying applies nicely: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Some people just need to go away.

The main problem with Puppy is people on this forum who just keep talking, rather than trying to help.

If anyone here has nothing to do, they should masturbate. Just don't ask us to look/listen/read.

[Flash]

...A conspiracy theory known to almost all mechanically-inclined Australians holds that the patent for the Sarich Orbital engine was exclusively licensed and then suppressed by Ford, perhaps in order to prevent a drop in oil prices, or simply to maintain the value of existing manufacturing facilities, should the highly efficient engine displace conventional piston engines."
.....

There are at least two things about that theory that don't compute, at least in my mind. For one thing, a patent only permits its owner to control, for a limited time, who can use the invention, in exchange for disclosing the workings of the invention. Ford, or anyone else, could not suppress the information disclosed in a patent once the patent has been issued (except maybe on "national security" grounds.). For another, the term of Sarich's patent(s) must surely have expired years ago, allowing anyone to use it now for free. So why don't we see cars, or at least motorcycles, that use engines based on Sarich's invention? My guess is that it has a fatal flaw in comparison to the engines already available; perhaps reliability, perhaps fuel economy, perhaps emissions. Maybe I'm wrong.

[mouldy]

Jeesh, I dont see what the big deal is. Better to have too many releases than too few. Nothing more depressing in the linux world than to see some very promising project stagnate and die. I just update when it seems there is something in the new release that will actually be a significant boon to me. That could be a year or more away. And alas sometimes things get changed that I liked just as they were, but thats also par for the course. Not like I am paying anything for Puppy. Everybody is always free to modify and change Puppy to meet their individaul needs or to build their own version of Puppy from scratch. Or to find a linux distribution that fits their needs better.

Puppy still meets my needs out of the box the best of anything I have found. I recently finally tried Ubuntu. I got kinda annoyed with it, and kept thinking, well if I changed this and that.... but with all the changes I would just end up with some kind of debian Puppy.

[jonyo]

No doubt but then I look at some of their stuff & all I see is the matrix Stuff they can do in their sleep turns into for me

Linux is totally diff from winx for a noob. Whole diff philosophy

Barry, MU and I think Dougal and Pizzasgood.

that's a good team.

they all know this inside and out.

[jonyo]

There ya go . Almighty Ubuntu (what's the diff with scenarios?). I just figured out the wifi ..mostly. Try to get some simple answers
in that matrix - LOS & FOS too - same deal, CNR et all (they're sorta buds now, but one's in bed with win )

Best luck I've had so far is with PClinux OS but try to get some answers in that matrix. Noob is not more than a speck when startin out with the Big dawg distros.. (unlike pup)

Pup's just totally 'kewl.'.. as the (mostly younger) SoCal folks'd say.. Innovative, lean, mean & fun; nippin at the heals & takin on the big bad dawg distros. Pup does stuff that they could only dream of.

Haven't run across a better outa the box ~ good to go linux distro yet myself, particularly for a noob & 'doze refugee..

Dunno how DSL can be aheada pup,..haven't made heads or tails with that distro..got it booted a few times..& spent some time but..

Oughta be careful with ultimatums..fwiw ..

.... trying to fix it, then realising it is something version specific....

I used ubuntu for a little while, while they have a roughly six month release cycle there were automatic updtaes were coming in every other day and one in five of these made more problems than they fixed (until fixed in a new update a few days later). It used to drive me crazy, so you have to keep in mind that it's not just the release cycle period that matters, or even the release process.

Personally I would prefer the Puppy releases to be a bit further apart but if that's what BarryK want's to do I can't stop him. I just skip a few releases before updating ... and BarryK can't stop me doing that

DB

[WhoDo]

Barry, MU and I think Dougal and Pizzasgood.

What exactly is this thing I'm supposed to be working on?
There is no -- and never has been -- "team" involving Barry. In case people haven't noticed, he always works alone.
It's also his Puppy, so he's free to do with it what (and how) he likes.

The fact that Barry, and you and Pizzasgood and MU all "work alone" doesn't preclude you working to resolve issues that you each understand and want solved, even if informally as in this case.

The "problem" mentioned was in having a single access to current software for download and installation. Barry is the PETget person, MU is the PSI person, Pizzasgood is the Pet-be-gone person and you, well you slipped in there because I understood you were working on underlying scripts that might have an impact. Guess I got that part wrong.

The "team" part was referring to a group of individuals with a common purpose, rather than any formal group. We are all part of the Puppy team, are we not?

Hope that clarifies my statement somewhat.

[MU]

Well, at work I have a timeline and concrete todo-list when a program must be done.

This is work, and though I'm happy that I can code at work, it is annoying sometimes.

So in my spare time I don't want to have these restrictions.
I code when I need something, or just have fun to do it.
I try to look that my programs are somewhat usefull for others, but this is not my priority.
If others like them, I am happy, and I'm really glad to see, how Whodoo or others incorporate them in their compilations.

So our work for Puppy is not like the work for a company, but more a somewhat "chaotic, creative" way of throwing together things

Of course it would be great, if I could code for Puppy in my job, but there is no chance for that at moment.

Mark