Fluppy 013

[dawnsboy]

Hi Sage,

I currently have a full install of Fluppy 013 to hard drive. I use the default US English keyboard. After reading this post I decided to switch to the UK English keyboard to see if I could reproduce your issue. I could not. I used the "change country, timezone, keyboard" app in the Control Panel and successfully switched from US English to UK English keyboard. I tested the keyboard. I then successfully switched back to the US English keyboard.

I had hoped to be of some help to you. Unfortunately I am not able to reproduce your issue.

Also this was posted on the Puppeee.com website yesterday:

I am suffering from little bit of information overload and am taking a break to clear my head. I should be back pretty soon.

[Sage]

Thanks - the mystery deepens! Yes, I tried swapping to a number of other locales, then back to UK, but none worked. Tomorrow I will try a new install and see if that fixes it. I think this Fluppy 13 is an update rather than a completely new re-installation.

[jason.b.c]

While the included Midori is small and fast, it's not quite bug free. I recommend using downloading one of these browsers.
Chrome 9 SFS:http://puppeee.com/files/distsfs/chrome-9.sfs
Opera 11 SFS: http://puppeee.com/files/sfs/opera11.00.sfs
Firefox 3.6 SFS: http://puppeee.com/files/sfs/firefox-3.6.13.sfs
Seamonkey 2 SFS: http://puppeee.com/files/sfs/seamonkey-2.0.11.sfs

how do you install one of these??? i'm sure i new at one time lol, but i don't remember now...

[edoc]

Copy them to the folder just outside of your Fluppy folder and when Fluppy reboots it will ask if you want to install them at boot - or go to Setup - System - BootManager - Load SFS Files (click on the green icon) and drag the ones you want to always load at boot from the left column to the right.

You can always change what you want loaded and not.

[edoc]

Two options:

1. A utility that allows me to reign-in the CPU

2. Turn off one of the cores

I am suspicious of the video chip - I have wondered from the beginning if it is not the true source of the problem.

WDYT?

[CLAM01]

edoc,

from what you quote it looks your Acer doesn't have its CPU frequency scaling working. You should have a second Hz number after the first, as in

-Processors-
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6400 @ 2.00GHz : 1200.00MHz
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T6400 @ 2.00GHz : 1200.00MHz

The second number, the "1200.00MHz" is the scaled to lower frequency.

click on the "file" icon on your desktop, then on the "startup" folder. You should have "0acpid" at the top left. If it is there, right-click it, then select "open as text" in the drop menu. There should be a short script there, as follows:

acpid
which acpitool
if [[ $? != 0 ]] ;then
exit
fi

acpitool -a |grep off-line
if [[ $? == 0 ]] ; then
/etc/acpi/powersave.sh
else
/etc/acpi/performance.sh
fi

with a hash bang/bin/bash lead-in at top to make it go.

If the file is not there, right-click in blank space in the "startup" filer window, select "new", "new script" and name the new script "0acpid". It will appear in the "Startup" window. Right-click and open as text the new file, then copy the above, from "acpid" to the second "fi", under the hash bang etc. Then restart your computer and look for frequency scaling in hardware info.

If the script is already there in your startup directory, or the above doesn't work, either your Acer is returning a "0" when asked if it has acpid, or the generic frequency scaler doesn't work for your Acer.

You will want to go to a pet repository and download-install a frequency scaling tool. I would look in pupeee first, then the 4-series, since fluppy is based on 4.3.1.

In the full tool you will have a choice of scalers to try until one installs successfully (we hope).

If one does, or even if one does not, try double-booting to see if it will get your BIOS to start the Acer fan. The drill is, start your machine with fluppy, which has a temperature sensor aplet you can roll your mouse cursor over to get a read-out, work or browse or play or whatever until the temperature readout is 41C or higher, then shut down and reboot. The BIOIS should turn the fan on, andif it is a stepped fan, at less than emergency-full-blast full-noise level, and your CPU temp, after the restart, should be low 40's or higher 30's and should go down a bit, or hold steady, depending how hard you work the processor.

Note that if you then restart again, a third time, after the fan has cooled the CPU, the BOIS will leave the fan off and you will have to start again when it has warmed again to have the fan on. You always have to start twice to get the fan (unless you have been working the CPU hard enough it is running in the 40's or 50's with the fan).

I hope this helps.

[tinker]

I have one of those too. The hard drive is divided in half between Windows 7 and Ubuntu LTS 10.4. I usually use it in Windows, I used it most recently for working on my taxes. Not intensive, but it was on for hours. I did not have any issue with overheating or even notice the fan coming on much. My general experience with this machine is that the fan runs no more often than any other laptop or netbook I've had.

I haven't used puppy much on this machine, because until Lupu, no puppy version seemed to figure out the video resolution properly. I tried that and was glad to see that the video was optimal, but I didn't go on to use it much. I don't remember the fan being on much then either.

In contrast, when I recently tried Fluppy 013 off a USB drive on the Acer, the fan seemed to be on a lot. This is unscientific and anecdotal, but FWIW...I can also say that fluppy 013 on OTHER machines seems to have no issues at all.

[CLAM01]

Sage,

For some reason some Puppies have difficulty remembering, and even setting, keyboard layouts. I work around the difficulty by setting, activating, removing-and-resetting and activating again, then testing. In most cases this sets keyboards correctly and persistently.

I don't use the "country-language" option, I use the "mouse/keyboard", then "advanced XorgKeyboard" options: I go, from the setup icon to the control panel, select "system", in the top row, then "mouse/keyboard wizard". In the gtk dialog box that appears I select "advanced Xorg keyboard configuration", click through the info-box and select the "layouts" and "variants" buttons in the "XKB Configuration Manager".

Clicking the "layouts" button, with only one keyboard layout should get you a box asking if you want to add or replace the layout. Selecting "replace" will take you to a list of layout options with OK and Cancel buttons at the bottom. At the top is information. there the layout you have will be named. For you the info should be "gb United Kingdom". It is probably "US English", which is the problem.

Note there is a weirdness in XKB: Anytime you click the "OK" button at the bottom of the box you add or remove whatever is highlighted in the list.

By default "U.S. English" is highlighted, for being at the top of the list. This is confusing and could be the cause for the problem. To exit after yu have made a change and checked to see that the change is recognized, if youc click "OK", instead of "cancel", your change is undone and "US English", the default, is re-installed. You have to select "cancel" to exit without cancelling your change...

I add keyboard layouts, so I "OK" each I want, then I open the options tab and select the group shift-lock behavior I want to use for switching between keyboards. After the last one I click the "activate" button.

Then I open abiword or open/libre office and try each to make sure they work.

If they work, I go return to the XKB dialog and go through, highlighting and "OK"ing each selection again, twice, the first "OK" removing the selection,, the second re-installing it. When all are removed and re-installed I click the "activate settings" button again. Then I close everything.

After doing this exercise my keyboards work and persist, so they are there at next boot. For some reason, in some puppy variants, just going through once either doesn't change things, or my changes don't persist and are gone next boot.

The main thing to remember is the wierdness, that when you check settings, even if that is all you do in "Xorg Keyboard Configuration", "cancel" means "OK", and clicking "OK" will undo or return you to default.

[edoc]

click on the "file" icon on your desktop, then on the "startup" folder. You should have "0acpid" at the top left. If it is there, right-click it, then select "open as text" in the drop menu. There should be a short script there, as follows:

...snip!

You will want to go to a pet repository and download-install a frequency scaling tool. I would look in pupeee first, then the 4-series, since fluppy is based on 4.3.1.

In the full tool you will have a choice of scalers to try until one installs successfully (we hope).

If one does, or even if one does not, try double-booting to see if it will get your BIOS to start the Acer fan.

...snip!

I will see if I can find the frequency scaling tool - it sounds familiar and I think we tried it in the past - though maybe we were not aggressive enough in backing the settings down.

If anyone has a link to a freq scaler that is Fluppy-friendly it sure would save some precious time.

The Acer fan is on almost continuously, the laptop jumps to about 69C immediately.

The problems wit this model are well-documented online.

I will post what I learn.

Thanks!

David

[Sage]

Very many thanks for that most discursive exposition, CLAM01 - most appreciated. I know it will help a lot of folks..
I was vaguely aware of some of those idiosyncrasies and fortunately had not fallen into any obvious traps that you mention. By the time I read your epistle, I had already done a complete clean-out and re-installation, which fixed the k/b issue. Presumably, in this case, the errors crept in during updating, which appeared to work OK, but left me with unfixable locale problems. None of the expedients seemed to work.
Notwithstanding, there are two very serious matters which demand urgent attention from BK and/or Jewel because they influence other derivatives, too.

1. Unreliability of k/b (and other?) settings to 'stick' after log-out/in, soft/hard resets & reboot/restarts. I am aware that this was solved for modem settings after extensive discussion and testing of other versions.
2. The nomenclature of OK/Cancel is a show-stopper and may have a simple remedy for the cognoscenti?

Perhaps you could bring your comments to the attention of BK, maybe by PM or his blog?

[jason.b.c]

Copy them to the folder just outside of your Fluppy folder and when Fluppy reboots it will ask if you want to install them at boot - or go to Setup - System - BootManager - Load SFS Files (click on the green icon) and drag the ones you want to always load at boot from the left column to the right.

You can always change what you want loaded and not.

Thank you...



is anyone here having trouble with the package list in puppy software (package) manager not loading (showing) anything?????

[newone]

is anyone here having trouble with the package list in puppy software (package) manager not loading (showing) anything?????

I made a frugal install of fluppy 013 and when i open package manager in the window where individual programs should be listed, tere is just an empty window.

[jason.b.c]

is anyone here having trouble with the package list in puppy software (package) manager not loading (showing) anything?????

I made a frugal install of fluppy 013 and when i open package manager in the window where individual programs should be listed, tere is just an empty window.

same here...

[CLAM01]

edoc,

A running temp of 69C isn't bad for a CPU that isn't frequency-throttled. 85 or 90 or up is not good, and is where BIOS controlled thermal overload protection should kick in and turn a fan on full.

My Intel 6400 CPU, running at 2 GHz runs in the 50's. I don't know what AMDs do nowadays. I was an AMD fan, they being the little guys, but I had a K-6 and an Athalon burn up for inadequate thermal overload protection and now avoid them.

The little 0acpid scrpt in Fluppy startup looks for an acpi daemon and if it does not find one starts your computer on "powersave", so if yours starts on powersave it means frequency scaling is not installed or is not running. Fluppy appears to be set up to start frequency scaling automatically, which means some form of the program should be in it somewhere. Jemimah will be able to give you information about that. I don't poke around at that level. I'm interested in what puppies do in everyday use for the average non-tech computer user.

Fluppy12 is the coolest-running puppy I have tried so far. It runs 31C for me where others run 35C or 36C. Fluppy13 runs a little warmer, running 36C or 37C with browsers fielding fling from the internet advertising and info-sniffing crowds, where others run 41C to 43C. I assume the cooler running is for descent from puppeee, set up for simpler CPU architecture. Cooler-running means fewer amps being used up producing heat, which means, on laptops, longer battery life

I should note that Fluppy12 won't connect to the internet for me, which accounts for part of its cool running. I consider not auto-connecting a plus, since all puppys are, in my opinion, too enthusiastic to connect. Not unnaturally, of course, real puppies are that way. Not connecting and running cool makes Fluppy12 a good work-in-public-places OS, when you want best battery-time and don't want world-and-dog peering in and poking to see if you bought a new toothbrush last week, so they can bombard you with a hundred toothbrush offers for the next five months.

[edoc]

Thanks for the info!

I located a laptop cooler that we had tried before and ran a movie last night with it cranked up high - and no overheating.

I plan to get a replacement AC adapter with a built-in USB power connector -- that way I keep the laptop cooler current from flowing through the laptop -- and can add a USB hub to keep other outboard devices from drawing current through the laptop as well.

I did that for my wife's older laptop and it solved an overheating problem.

Many of the older laptops were not designed for the heavy YouTube/GodTube/Tangle/Hulu/etc. video streaming on top of a dozen other open windows and autochecking E-mail with image file attachments pounding on the machine!

[CLAM01]

Sage,

I'm not sure why XKB settings don't set persistently, to come back on reboot, with one setting in some puppies. The changes appear in the X configuration file, and are there on the reboot, but not working. I just bang them in twice and go on.

I have had the least problem in BK puppies. In 431 installs I had no problems. In 5-series and woof-build variants XKB works fine with entering twice. In Fluppy, too, entering them twice makes them work fine. I assume the problem is the way puppies store the file, or when they read it.

The weird business with having to click "cancel" when everything is OK is an Xorg thing. It has been that way since whenever. Where the configuration process works first time the user would only click the "OK" and never use the "cancel", so would not notice.

Incidentally, the Danish keyboard layout appears to be the most versatile qwerty layout, being the only one I've found with "œ" available. Useful if you want to put an Old English or Anglo-Saxon word that uses it in something.

[edoc]

Disregard: I discovered that if I put the book and chapter in the Search window it works, it won't accept just the book, I will have to submit a bug report to them - it should accept a partial name and open the closest match.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I am using Midori in Fluppy 013

When I go here:

http://net.bible.org

... then close the pop-up to use their new interface ...

It does not respond when I try to change to the book of the Bible I need (at the moment it is Chronicles).

Is there something I need to add to Midori to make this site work correctly, please?

Thanks!

[Greatnessguru]

I'm running Fluppy 013 as a frugal hd install for testing,
specifically to get my mobile phone connected with Bluetooth
for file management. (I use Wary 5.1.1 otherwise,
and use the phone's USB connection for the Internet.)

Pairing happens OK.

Sending a file to the phone seems to work.

Browsing: nothing happens.

Receiving files:
"Cannot start "Personal File Sharing" preferences
Please verify that "Personal File Sharing"
program is correctly installed."

Are these being fixed for Fluppy 014?
I could help with testing fixes.

Thank you,
Eddie Maddox

[Sage]

I have had the least problem in BK puppies.

Me, too, which is why I suggest you advise BK - he obviously knows something the rest of us don't^2 !
As for occasional use of diphthongs and umlauts, etc. in words that must have them, even in another language, it is always possible to stick them in Google, select an entry which shows them fully clothed and copy them over.

I guess it's a sign of great age (and lack of adequate research by youth!) when the issue of cpu temperature comes around for the tenth(?) time. Way before this millennium, AMD introduced an extra diode into their cores which had the ability to be used to measure the, errr, core temperature. At first, few knew how to correctly use this and, predictably, the bigI guys dismissed it: they started fitting it somewhat later - predictably. As you correctly assert, CLAMie, core cpu temps can be alarmingly high, especially during maximum use excursions - this is normal*. As for the diode(s), sometimes they were used in BIOS, but some board makers were still using an on-board resistive sensor under the cpu. This reports the, errr, under-cpu-temp. The latter has been loosely associated with the outer cpu surface temp - not always the same value, of course. Then there came the SW utilities which report the "cpu temperature". This continues to create considerable confusion because few coders specify which method/sensor they are using to determine which value. Adding to the confusion, mixed in from even earlier utilities were attempts to provide a SW calculation of probable cpu temp - these were worse than useless.
Enter the laptop - one of the most successful marketing efforts the field has encountered, but technically, and, for the punter, financially, a disaster waiting to happen. Early devices had no cooling channels; present designs do, but folks without a decade of dexterous skills will fail to clean these regularly without causing damage to the monstrous construction. Add to that, some cheapo machines did not use the 'M' version of mobile cpu in the interests of even greater profiteering, and leading, inexorably to melted plastic.

And I haven't even got around to mentioning short-lived, expensive to replace batteries, short-lived virtually impossible to replace cold-cathode lamps, not to mention 'routine replacements of eg cracked screens, cracked lids at the stiff hinge(s), and legions of other failures that are difficult-to-impossible to fix without the manufacturers' manual and jig which they decline to supply.

Check this and the many other Forums to which I have contributed over the decades. The advice has always been the same - do not buy laptops, it is a marketing exercise, purely and simply. Mobile functionality has just become available with smart phones. Important people need neither, they have a secretary to take care of the minutia. Besides which, at least in the UK, every municipal library will provide free InterWeb access for citizens who are caught short. Notwithstanding, there's a brick behind virtually every office and domestic door. Friends visiting here know that I can offer access to a choice of several dozen boxes with simultaneous Net connection via 12 ports. Few of my visitors feel the need to contact their mother-in-law, w.h.y., as we share a glass of cheer, however.
Even old technogits enjoy 'smelling the roses' as we muse on the ridiculous antics of the capitalist ignorami + camp followers.

*the MPt of Si is 1683C, but the eutectic melting temperatures of the junctions will be considerably lower. For example, an In junction will melt below 429C. Even so, that's considerably above the BPt of water @100C, so the margins for thermal runaway are quite reasonable, even at the =<45nm level. Ga devices present problems, however, in this regard as well as costs of ore, extraction and processing!

[edoc]

OK, back to Midori ...

Every time I try to go to amazon.com it crashes.

It handles youtube.com, godtube.com, ebay.com, and buy.com fine.

Any idea what is unique about amazon.com to trip-up Midori?

Anyone else getting a Midori crash on amazon.com?