FirePup v0.04.3 released nov12/08

[mikeb]

Thanks for the info ttuuxxx....

Mike

[mikeb]

Well I made a gtk1 firefox 1.5 which runs just fine........the poo is that flash 9 crashes it I assume cos it wants gtk2 libs.. I noticed qt as an option....opera style eh.
There's also Xlib ?


mike

[Subito Piano]

Ttuuxxx - new smaller version of Firepup seems to work great -- and none of the problems with Google Docs? Nice....

Say, do you have a page with ALL your pets/pups/sfs's that you have built all listed in one place? I'd LOVE to see that....

[telboy]

hey tuxx your firepup sucks

when on ebay i clicked a link to change page prefences it tried to download a dll file !!!!!


in my opinion it also has a conflict between transmission program and the fire pup it doesnt seem to let go of the bandwidth when closed transmission !!!! it was down to 7 k a sec !!!!!

it slows day by day

i thought people said this was good its crap

why dont you put ecofox in the repositery?

this server is the doggies bollox

it works

tuxx sucks
oh yeah and you managed to stuff to word processor aswell
why dont you go work for microsoft it seems your as good as them

your are putting folk off using your server which also puts folk of using linux cos your firepup its no good !! it sucks tuxx

[techtype]

@Ttuuxxx,

Do me a big favor --- do not read the post above this. I know you want to, but don't do it. If you already have read it, delete it from your mind immediately. Thanks!

[Subito Piano]

telboy -- sorry you are having problems and ppl are always glad to help around here. But that's the point: the puppy forums are a place to get help and give help, not for flaming others. If you poke around here awhile, you'll notice people are generally friendly and they respect each other even when they don't agree. If you want to use Firepup, state your issue and request help. If you hate Firepup, then don't use it...obviously others think it's great. If you choose instead to be rude, you're the one who looks bad.

[ecomoney]

Hi All

I actually know "telboy", he is a local guy in my area trying to pay his rent by getting cheap laptops of ebay, repairing them, loading puppy and selling them on. He spoke to me the other day and he was absolutely furious he has received bad feedback on his ebay account because the wordprocessor on the computers he sold doesnt work with M$ word created documents on 4.2. Also the people he sold to cannot work their ebay/facebook/sites they use etc because there is no easy way of installing a full featured web browser (or a "working" word processor) from the install icon on the desktop. Ive mentioned this many times before, to no avail.

Telboy is just a normal computer user, trying to make a few bucks in the recession, or just simply get their just computers "working", there must be a whole load that dont post. I believe Iv tried everything myself to get through, so my standard line now is "if you have a problem dont get onto me about it, go on the puppy forum and talk to a guy called Ttuxxx...hes the one that programmed the things that dont work now". I agree his tone isnt particularly helpful, but its a lot less than people have been saying to me in person. I can understand why hes "vented off" here too. The buggy 4.2 has been up for three weeks now and I can imagine the frustration it has been causing around the world.

All I hope for is that developers really start listening to what end users want to do from their computer systems. Maybe that requires salaries...

[ttuuxxx]

Well All I can say is that, FirePup works better, runs faster, looks better than any 2&3 series Firefox on any default 4 series release. I'm talking out of the box official puppy, not upgrading libs etc. And I'm 100% sure that ecomoney has something to do with that users 1 and only post on puppy. For a new user to know everything that I've done in the past 3+months and make a post that includes that work and only joined yesterday, thats a tall order. Nice try ecomoney, maybe a admin could ban his IP, If so I wonder If yours will get banned too
ttuuxxx

[mikeb]

I actually know "telboy", he is a local guy in my area trying to pay his rent by getting cheap laptops of ebay, repairing them, loading puppy and selling them on.

Puppy is a work in progress hobby linux...that's a realistic opinion...great if you don't mind getting yer hand's dirty...If he want to do things in a business manner he should choose suse or ubuntu or debian etc.

M$ word created documents on 4.2. Also the people he sold to cannot work their ebay/facebook/sites

the microsoft connection is strong there...moving the goalposts to try to hamper free software is a well known M$ trick....the linux challenge is to keep up with these ( unecessary) changes. By the way ebay works fine on me old firefox 1.5. The main stability problem centers around a closed source flash plugin from a corporation with close m$ ties. There is a strong principle behind using open source but that comes with sacrafices...Joe public doesn't know or care about that in which case I give them a safe and cut down version of windows that will last more than 10 minutes...linux is offered to those who take an interest rather than sold as a free 100% windows compatible system.

if you have a problem dont get onto me about it, go on the puppy forum and talk to a guy called Ttuxxx

I don't see any reason why this is getting so personal. Have a go at Barry ... he's made some stunning bloopers. Ttuuxx dedicates much time and effort , in particular towards the brower problems which are NOT his fault...he is simply trying to find a solution. Helpful feedback is a major key to results.

My findings so far (involving many recompiles of firefox and flash 9) is that one particular instability is greatly affected by the window manager used....kde gave stable performance, xfce repeatable crash, jwm very unstable..got any suggestions? But don't worry this does not apply to the current puppy releases...tricky eh.

Back to my first comment...Puppy's stong point is that is works....it's harware support seems better than many of the big distros and thats what takes many peoples interest including mine. Software is not it's forte..Barry simply packs in what he can to show what linux can do and in a small space with a fast core that can run happily of a usb flash drive ...compromise city. Including open office and all the rest of the microsoft licking bloat would simply ruin the whole concept...the user can always make his own mini ubuntu puppy if he/she feels the need.

mike

[James C]

I've not been on the forum for long but I've been using Puppy for a while and IMO Firepup is the best overall browser, for Puppy. I've tried Firefox 2 series and 3 series, Opera, Dillo, Netsurf , Seamonkey and Skipstone.....your experience may differ from mine. I appreciate all the work that Ttuuxxx has put into Firepup as well as Puppy, as well the work of everyone who has contributed to Puppy as a whole.
Now to stray from the subject a bit, when was the ideal of Puppy changed to" must work for Ecomoney and his customers/clients "? Also, if someone is wanting to sell computers with an operating system installed, any operating system, you might want to TEST first. No version of any Linux I've seen will work on every computer, no browser will work on every web site.....there are just too many variations in both the operating systems and computer hardware involved.
It's simple, if something doesn't work on your equipment........try something else!!!!!!!!If you find an operating system, be it Windows or Linux that will work perfectly on all computer equipment out of the box, post back and let me know......I'm still searching for that one.

[James C]

I've not been on the forum for long but I've been using Puppy for a while and IMO Firepup is the best overall browser, for Puppy. I've tried Firefox 2 series and 3 series, Opera, Dillo, Netsurf , Seamonkey and Skipstone.....your experience may differ from mine. I appreciate all the work that Ttuuxxx has put into Firepup as well as Puppy, as well the work of everyone who has contributed to Puppy as a whole.
Now to stray from the subject a bit, when was the ideal of Puppy changed to" must work for Ecomoney and his customers/clients "? Also, if someone is wanting to sell computers with an operating system installed, any operating system, you might want to TEST first. No version of any Linux I've seen will work on every computer, no browser will work on every web site.....there are just too many variations in both the operating systems and computer hardware involved.
It's simple, if something doesn't work on your equipment........try something else!!!!!!!!If you find an operating system, be it Windows or Linux that will work perfectly on all computer equipment out of the box, post back and let me know......I'm still searching for that one.

[ttuuxxx]

I've not been on the forum for long but I've been using Puppy for a while and IMO Firepup is the best overall browser, for Puppy. I've tried Firefox 2 series and 3 series, Opera, Dillo, Netsurf , Seamonkey and Skipstone.....your experience may differ from mine. I appreciate all the work that Ttuuxxx has put into Firepup as well as Puppy, as well the work of everyone who has contributed to Puppy as a whole.
Now to stray from the subject a bit, when was the ideal of Puppy changed to" must work for Ecomoney and his customers/clients "? Also, if someone is wanting to sell computers with an operating system installed, any operating system, you might want to TEST first.

Thanks James What happened was I was compiling/fixing things around 12- 16hr a day for a couple of months for 4.2. I would release the packages in the building section of 4.2 for people to test, Abiword was there for over a month, actually it was included in the beta releases for over a month, nobody tested it, I tested it to see if it could write docx files and open them and it could, so I figured it was ok, really testing wasn't my end of the deal, I was needed in other more pressing areas, Thats for the testers to debug and report back, then I would fix or replace the package, but anyways Abiword changed the default font for MS document and didn't post anything on the website, from new times roman to Tymes, which puppy doesn't have, and when I compiled it, it compiled perfectly, so when 4.2 was released Abiword wouldn't open doc or rtf properly. Well you can't blame me for Abiwords neglect to inform people thats build changes happened. So I quickly found a way of viewing doc,rtf by highlighting the mangled words and selecting deja sans, and you could view it, meanwhile I was trying to figure out how to fix it, Thats when ecomoney started to blame/shame me for abiword problem, so I continued anyways and managed to get a version from the repo working with newer features like docx and templates from the broken version working within days of 4.2 release and to this day I still get blamed, man you can as much as you can for some people.
I even went further and released a no bling version of 4.2 with almost all the updates like 3 times now, and then I get request to by ecomoney again to put the bling back in, ummm no, I'm working on Dpup now and people will have to wait for a official 4.2 bling version update
Anyways Thanks james for the nice words
and ecomoney you might learn a lesson from james You'll get further that way with me.
ttuuxxx

[don922]

@ttuuxxx:

I have been using FirePup for some time now and I don't know of a browser that is near as good -- all things considered.

If telboy is installing newer versions of Puppy Linux on used computers and selling them without testing he should change his name to DUMB BOY. If his post is typical example of his work it must be a shocking mess!

Also, ignore ecomoney most of his comments throughout this forum are plain silly. I can see how he and telboy would be buddies they both seem to think that Puppy Linux has been designed just for them and their needs.

[telboy]

hey guys im a street sort of person i say it as i see it itold what the problem was is all im abit brash i suppose but there you go.
perhaps i didnt give respect to the effort put in but reaally final release ! how can it be if its faulty ?
i am currently responisble for introducing around 40 new user to linux all they aask is for it to work as said after all this was the final rellease no ?

its rather hard to get folk to sswop from ms to pup never mind trying to explain whta has gone wrong !
so i hope you see where im coming from when i wrote what i wrote

and whats all this about banning my ip address for what speaking my mind you really need to learn to take a critic a little better
how else can you grow ?
terryaka telboy

[telboy]

dom easy m8

o m g

[ecomoney]

And I'm 100% sure that ecomoney has something to do with that users 1 and only post on puppy

I believe a moderator can confirm that my posts and his are from two separate i.p addresses (from the moderator control panel on phpbb). Telboy does have two accounts on here, and has been using puppy for about six weeks now. Im sorry you suspect I would resort to these methods to get my point across Ttuxxxx.

Terry has seen puppy before, but it looked too much like windows 95 (his quote not mine) and was too complicated to install for him to switch from windows previously, although he was aware of previous puppy's "relative" reliability and level of testing. He provided me with quite a lot of feedback from a aesthetic and installing point of view (not using) during the alpha/beta/rc stages of 4.2 development, and was looking forward to the final release so that he could install something saleable on lower end laptops. He's disappointed with the end result, as it has all of the appearance and usability features, but if his customers can word process/print and access the ADVANCED (i.e. modern flash and java based) features they are used to on ebay and facebook than he realises his stuff isnt going to be as saleable as he hoped. Hence his car is off the road and he is late on his rent!

Its unfortunate that Terry tracked down Ttuxxx on this thread, as firepup is IMHO a well tested and very usable piece of software *for its size* (I tested it in the Alpha stage of 4.2), it is the other (personal) Ttuxxx contributions in 4.2 that are causing the real world problems...i.e. word document support/printing . I think it is a lack of a FULL and tested firefox/flash/java pack available through the desktop install icon (as opposed to trawling through forums) that caused the frustration - as well as a full office suite.

Now to stray from the subject a bit, when was the ideal of Puppy changed to" must work for Ecomoney and his customers/clients "?

(Part of) Puppy's Mission Statement

* Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies.
* Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use.
* Puppy will just work, no hassles.

The vast majority of my "customers/clients" are charities/community groups/low income families who I charge only my expenses (Im actually registered unemployed). All of my "customers" fall squarely into the category of "Linux Newbies"...(hence their lack of forum experience). I work every day with these people and have first hand experience of the frustrations that things that would be *relatively easy to fix* should they go to the trouble. Im sure Im not the only one, just the most vocal.

Im not against anyone having a "hobby", however in my opinion a piece of technology like puppy linux that has the potential to improve the lives of so many people (read "printing press") should be more focused on their needs, have better quality control and production methods. Its new developers should take the time to review Puppies mission statement, think about where best to make changes to achieve that mission, and be more willing to accept and react to feedback, criticism and suggestions from these users - or at least the people that spend the most time around the people that Puppy Linux is designed to be used by!

@Ttuxxx - Your a "Distribution Developer" right? From what I understand chosen role is select and prepare packages that the people who use this distribution need, package them, and make sure that they are ready for the applications users to use, without "workarounds". To do that effectively you need to be aware of the application, how it is used, and what issues there are in the individual package development. I dont doubt for a moment your commitment to Puppy Linux, or the amount of work you put in. I do doubt your ability to take criticism constructively, and to have "response-ability" for any *understandable* human mistakes you make.

@ Terry
Terry Mate, thanks for comin on here an puttin yr stuff. Hope U see now Im not the only guy who does Puppy Linux. Have a read of my other posts on here an you can see I AM TRYIN!!!! Cheerz for givin me a hand dude!

[mikeb]

I think it is a lack of a FULL and tested firefox/flash/java pack available through the desktop install icon (as opposed to trawling through forums) that caused the frustration

well if you insist on ignoring help with achieving just that what do you expect....
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40497
my post was based on achieving a stable firefox2/flash9 or 10 combination on puppy 4.12...

puppy is about a community effort...not just demanding and complaining

mike

[ecomoney]

puppy is about a community effort...not just demanding and complaining

I agree totally, all this has been very distracting, my apologies. I will see about getting ecofox included in the main puppy repos.

[ttuuxxx]

@Ttuxxx - I do doubt your ability to take criticism constructively, and to have "response-ability" for any *understandable* human mistakes you make.

Really I didn't make any mistakes with cups or Abiword, Abiword was a built-in hidden issue that the company mistaken forgot announced a critical change in the font usability. Then it would of fallen onto the testers hands to find the issues.
Cups once again we made patches and had testers for that one and it was well documented about how we had strange permissions errors, Due to the newer way CUPS is enabling extra security features that don't run properly as a 'Root' user. This will be a work in progress or puppy will have to resort either to using traditional logins or use a dated printing system. The new cups package once again was perfect, its the system at fault, If you have complaints about CUPS, Then take it up with them, its the way they built the latest release that isn't compatible out of the box with puppy. Since the CUPS errors and fixes were really well documented and somewhat fixed it would of been up to the coordinator to make the final call, revert back to a older version or use the latest version. That once again wasn't my fault, I also supplied well over 50 new packages that had no errors, keep that in mind also.
ttuuxxx

[James C]

For a momentary break from "other" threads, I'm using both your regular Firepup as well as the test version........I can tell that the test version is faster.

I haven't had a crash or lockup on either one yet and I give my browsers a workout.Good job!!!!!!

Thanks a lot......