Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[mcewanw]

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#  Show workspace switching buttons on task bar
TaskBarShowWorkspaces=1 # 0/1
.....................
#  Show a mini desktop preview on each workspace button
PagerShowPreview=1 # 0/1

Hi Toni, the above info you give are good icewm options to know. I may use these.

[anikin]

Hi saintless et al,

Don't know if the following is of any relevance ... for what it's worth:

Configuration Changes
...
JWM no longer allows custom window buttons. These buttons are now custom drawn to an appropriate size using X graphics primitives.
The information in TrayButtonStyle is now inherited from TrayStyle instead of TaskListStyle. This means that tray buttons now get defaults from the tray instead of from the task list. In addition, it is now possible to specify ActiveBackground and ActiveForeground in TrayStyle. This makes it possible to set defaults for both tray buttons and task list buttons in TrayStyle.

read more here >>>http://joewing.net/projects/jwm/release-2.2.shtml
... as I'm severely biased in favor of JWM, I applaud the meticulous work, you guys are doing on its configuration.

[saintless]

Thanks, Anikin.
If there is no way to create TrayButton it means we loose Wallpapers.GUI if we update Jwm to v.2.2
Anyway we use v.2.1.0.3 so it is newer enough and last version in debian stable, testing and unstable. I don't think we need to move to v.2.2 and start configuring the changes again.

BTW I forgot to mention almost all theme settings in JWM are from here:
http://antix.freeforums.org/jwm-theme-f ... t3336.html

Toni

[mcewanw]

Thanks, Anikin.
If there is no way to create TrayButton it means we loose Wallpapers.GUI if we update Jwm to v.2.2

I'll have to try it sometime, but I think it means window decoration buttons not traybuttons. The opportunity to create traybuttons may not be effected I feel.

[mcewanw]

By the way Toni, DebianDog cpu freq scaling is now working out the box on my Pentium M based system. Uses ondemand governor.

[fredx181]

Hi Toni
Tried your latest and sofar I like JWM, it runs smooth and the theme is nice looking.
Getting more and more complete now!
I noticed there are no icons for the programs and found a workaround here: https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bug ... 86007.html
Also changed /etc/menu-methods/jwm to get it merged with other menu items but it needs more tweaking because some categories are empty (e.g debian, applications)
See attached image below.

I'm trying to find a way to switch between icewm and jwm to start directly without having to type startx.
I've found something that works but it's having side-effects I don't like, so needs more studying.
Are you interested in that?

Fred

[mcewanw]

# I`ve tried to get JWM to do multi. wallpapers, but it`s never worked for me.
# If someone can make it work and show us how...
.

I've finally found out how... and still using Terry's desktop.ctrl for the actual background change.

No need in JWM for these extra Toolbar buttons Toni, and best of all - no need to lose the nice Pagers from the toolbar because this new config actually uses the Pagers to call up desktop.ctrl and so brings the best of all worlds. Don't think icewm can do both at same time without the extra toolbar buttons.

I decided to browse the source code with a view to patching the code such that the Pager button would run desktop.ctrl, but in the virtual desktop code I noticed there was a parameter passed that would allow exec of external program anyway. I had just missed the possibility when I read JWM configure docs at the time I was playing with different Desktop backgrounds (using individual background images which alas were overwriting rox pinboard). A bit back to front, but after seeing the parameter passed in the C code itself, I immediately went back to the JWM configuration docs and sure enough there it was - 'command' the relevant tag in Virtual Desktops section (rather than tag 'image', which I had already tried)! Below contains the correct config to get this working without the rox pinboard vanishing!:

Please thus try the attached system.jwmrc (just remove the .tar and in /etc/jwm backup the old one and replace it with this - or make it a .jwmrc in $HOME I suppose...). You do of course have to still "Use the desktop icon or Start menu for Wallpapers to start the GUI from Terry".

Note that if you hover over the desktop window itself and scroll with middle mouse button you now also get the convenience of the start menu appearing, which wasn't happening before. Also, you can drag open windows both within and between desktops using right mouse button to drag them between the different Pagers!

[saintless]

I've finally found out how... and still using Terry's desktop.ctrl for the actual background change.

Thank you, William
This is the best solution and I will include it for the next version.
Much work today. I will test it proper tonight.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, Fred

I noticed there are no icons for the programs and found a workaround here: https://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bug ... 86007.html

Thank you, menu icons are in my to-do list. I will read this link.

Also changed /etc/menu-methods/jwm to get it merged with other menu items but it needs more tweaking because some categories are empty (e.g debian, applications)

Yes, I found this out as well and even there was a way to remove empty Applications menu, but I couldn't remove Debian and empty System menus.
BTW Debian is needed if you use it this way. The patch for single program in menu folder does not work the same way as in IceWM and all single programs go in Debian menu. It is like Others menu in your menu-xdg option.
To remove Debian and System we need to find a way to modify /etc/jwm/debian-menu but it is auto regenerated every time update-menus run.
It is like /etc/X11/icewm/programs file in IceWM.

I'm trying to find a way to switch between icewm and jwm to start directly without having to type startx.
I've found something that works but it's having side-effects I don't like, so needs more studying.
Are you interested in that?

Yes, Fred, I'm very interested. I lost few hours testing different scripts and can't make it work.
Can you please check out /opt/bin/low-ram-on and low-ram-off scripts. Just run from menu in IceWM System/Low-Ram-Settings/ON-OFF. They work from Icewm and exit x + auto-satrtx again but not from JWM. Maybe you will find something useful in this scripts.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, William.
I like it this way
Just a small improovement to get numbers 1-4 in the tray desktop changer buttons. Replace:

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   <Pager/>

with

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   <Pager labeled="true"/>

And about click on desktop start menu appearing:
Open Rox and right click inside empty space. Choose Options -> Compatibility
Uncheck all boxes and check only the box for "Pass All Backdrop mouse clicks to window manager"
Restart JWM from restart button. Now we have Left Click and Scroll Click on desktop menu appearing.

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Toni

Yes, Fred, I'm very interested. I lost few hours testing different scripts and can't make it work.
Can you please check out /opt/bin/low-ram-on and low-ram-off scripts. Just run from menu in IceWM System/Low-Ram-Settings/ON-OFF. They work from Icewm and exit x + auto-satrtx again but not from JWM. Maybe you will find something useful in this scripts.

I just found that one of the "side-effects" I assumed were caused by my experimenting but I was wrong.
Booting with empty savefile I noticed the following:
Clicking on an empty space on the desktop and directly click on xterm icon results in unresponsive xterm (cannot type anything)
Same goes for me when clicking geany on desktop.
Opening xterm or geany from the menu is OK.
So the scripts work for starting wm directly except for another side effect (see below).
Here's edited /opt/bin/start-jwm:

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#!/bin/sh

jwmstart() {
cd $HOME/
ln -f -s .xsession-jwm .xsession
ln -f -s startup-jwm startup
pkill X
sleep 1
startx
}

( trap "true" HUP ; jwmstart ) > /tmp/nohup.out &

And start-icewm:

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#!/bin/sh

icewmstart() {
cd $HOME/
ln -f -s .xsession-icewm .xsession
ln -f -s startup-icewm startup
pkill X
sleep 1
startx
}

( trap "true" HUP ; icewmstart ) > /tmp/nohup.out &

Now the other side effect (I think only when starting jwm from icewm):
When you do from Menu>Programs>Window Managers>Jwm
It will start Jwm but: when opening xterm it can't be closed, need to type "exit"
Then switch to icewm again, run start-jwm from /opt/bin in xfe.
Everything seems fine then... very strange
I added in ~/.icewm/menu a new entry for start-jwm under utilities and... works without problems also, even more strange!

If you have time I hope you can reproduce all this.
Here's also low-ram-on with simular solution as above:
EDIT: Is only as user root for now. May be better to use gsu for other user.

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#!/bin/bash

if [ "`whoami`" != "root" ]; then
xterm -e sudo mv ${HOME}/startup ${HOME}/startup-old
pkill X
sleep 3
startx
exit 0
fi

lowon() {
mv ${HOME}/startup ${HOME}/startup-old
sed -i".bak" '/mnt-all/d' /etc/rc.local
pkill X
sleep 3
startx
}

( trap "true" HUP ; lowon ) > /tmp/nohup.out &

Regards,
Fred

[saintless]

Thank you very much, Fred!
I will test all tonight and get back.

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Toni

I will test all tonight and get back.

Forget what I said about using gsu, it's not suitable for these scripts, it will mess up the ownership permissions.
I don't think it's possible to make them work properly when logged in as normal user.
Fred

[saintless]

I just found that one of the "side-effects" I assumed were caused by my experimenting but I was wrong.
Booting with empty savefile I noticed the following:
Clicking on an empty space on the desktop and directly click on xterm icon results in unresponsive xterm (cannot type anything)
Same goes for me when clicking geany on desktop.
Opening xterm or geany from the menu is OK.

Thank you, Fred. I guess you get this side-effect only in JWM?
Here is the fix for it:

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And about click on desktop start menu appearing:
Open Rox and right click inside empty space. Choose Options -> Compatibility
Uncheck all boxes and check only the box for "Pass All Backdrop mouse clicks to window manager"
Restart JWM from restart button. Now we have Left Click and Scroll Click on desktop menu appearing.

I will test the scripts proper now.

Toni

[saintless]

Now the other side effect (I think only when starting jwm from icewm):
When you do from Menu>Programs>Window Managers>Jwm
It will start Jwm but: when opening xterm it can't be closed, need to type "exit"
Then switch to icewm again, run start-jwm from /opt/bin in xfe.
Everything seems fine then... very strange
I added in ~/.icewm/menu a new entry for start-jwm under utilities and... works without problems also, even more strange!

Hi, Fred.
same here. It does it also with changing JWM to ICEWM but seldom. And executing direct /opt/bin/start-jwm or icewm doesn't work every time to fix the problem
Another issue is after logout or Ctrl+Alt+BkSpace I have to hit enter to see the root command propmpt and to be able to type startx again.
Then after startx in JWM I do not have xterm problem anymore.
It is like some process is left unfinished.
Much to experiment yet

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Toni

Here is the fix for it:
Code:
And about click on desktop start menu appearing:
Open Rox and right click inside empty space. Choose Options -> Compatibility
Uncheck all boxes and check only the box for "Pass All Backdrop mouse clicks to window manager"
Restart JWM from restart button. Now we have Left Click and Scroll Click on desktop menu appearing.

Thanks, at first this did gave me another side-effect:
desktop-drive-icons disappeared when clicking on desktop.
But when I checked the first box aswell as the second it was allright, glad this is no mystery.

Now for the mystery:
Aaargh, I hate it when something works most of the time, but not always, it's just not good enough then.

same here. It does it also with changing JWM to ICEWM but seldom. And executing direct /opt/bin/start-jwm or icewm doesn't work every time to fix the problem
Another issue is after logout or Ctrl+Alt+BkSpace I have to hit enter to see the root command propmpt and to be able to type startx again.
Then after startx in JWM I do not have xterm problem anymore.
It is like some process is left unfinished.
Much to experiment yet Smile

Yes, and I did experiment a lot with it but have to give up now, it's just to unpredictable.
Maybe someone with more knowledge can fix it.
Perhaps it's best to add a message when switching wm which tells the user to type startx and for the rest leave it as you had already.

Fred

[mcewanw]

Guys, why struggle trying to switch window managers? Much time has been used trying to workaround icewm problems. What does icewm provide that jwm doesn't? JWM uses lower resources, works now with Terry's wallpaper gui (whilst providing virtual pagers), is an active project supported on Puppy Forums by its creator, and is well known by Puppy users. You could save a bit space, and a lot of development time, by simply using jwm now.

As things stand, the system ends up with a number of unpolished edges, some of which would disappear if we simply adopted jwm as a more uptodate alternative to icewm.

[sunburnt]

I`m inclined to agree with William, but it`s Toni`s call on IceWM.
It`s a real shame the Debian package led Toni to not use it at the start.

I just tried JWM and I like it, it`s very familiar to me coming from Puppy.

Toni; See if you can stop desktop buttons from popping-up "hints/tool-text".
# Can we reduce the text size in Xterm.? ( Isn`t rxvt better then Xterm.? )
# And Xterm in the new Squash file has no scroll bar. ( Maybe always.? )

I noticed menu has 2 System categories. ( Debian generated of course...)
I`ll try to get my JWM menu setup working.


# Where is the .jwmrc file at.? It needs some editing to fix some stuff.

### New menu scripts work. The desktop files are a mess of course.
They will need to be handled better, most Categories are "Development".

[wjaguar]

I think you can just open mtpaint and edit Image -> Preferences to point the entry box 'Location of Handbook Index' to a shell script which loads the browser with address: (...)
EDIT: As Terry points out, the above doesn't work. So I think you need to create an extra small shell script (e.g. /opt/bin/mtpaint_help), and have an icon/menu item for that, as Terry suggests. Mtpaint itself won't open it unfortunately:

Added Mtpaint help file menu entry.

And all this because no one noticed the very next box on the Preferences->Paths page: "HTML browser program".
There is the proper place to put the name of your shell script; mtPaint doesn't use a browser for anything else but displaying its docs, so it won't break anything.

-= With best regards, Dmitry Groshev, maintainer of mtPaint =-

[sunburnt]

Dmitry; I tried this: /opt/apps/h3v/hv3-linux-nightly-08_0203 in Browser box.
And http://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/handbook/index.html in Location box.

I seem to recall I did this in the past and it worked, but it doesn`t work now...