(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

for those who just want a barebone puppy, maybe they can turn to other puppy derivatives. The name of a "FAT" puppy or "XL" just imply it should contain nearly all desktop applications for an "ordinary" or an "average" end user. I think barebone is more suitable for an "advance user".

Q5sys; SlackBones ver. 1.2 at 333 Mb is as bare-bones as it can get?
SeaMonkey reported the size. Maybe it being 64 bit makes the difference?

Slacko is only 167 MB. Slax is 216 MB. Average Puppy`s are 130 to 160 MB.
A bb Puppy with X, GTK, Rox, Jwm, and utilities should be well under 100 MB.

sunburnt wrote:Q5sys; SlackBones ver. 1.2 at 333 Mb is as bare-bones as it can get?
SeaMonkey reported the size. Maybe it being 64 bit makes the difference?

Slacko is only 167 MB. Slax is 216 MB. Average Puppy`s are 130 to 160 MB.
A bb Puppy with X, GTK, Rox, Jwm, and utilities should be well under 100 MB.

That includes the full devx sfs as well. Its included because since the release hs no applications installed you'll need it to build things.
If you looking for no developer stuff at all, the I can make another iso and load it tonight. Not sure what the size will end up being without the devx and kernel sources.

Q5sys; That makes complete sense. Devx seem to be about 130 to 150 MB.

My hope was to build apps. from binary files in Precise, or could be Slacko.
My problem is that I can`t find dependency lists for any apps.
I would think that the problem is the same for compiling apps. from source files.

# Q: Is there a trick to this.? Or is this a great guarded secret of Linux.?
Without dep. lists it`s; gather files, compile and wait for errors about missing stuff.
And even then there`s no way to know what extra stuff the app. can use.

Ubuntu has web pages, but they`re one-package-at-a-time, not a complete list.
Slackware doesn`t seem to have much of anything, only the installer knows.

Is it any wonder why people pay good money for M$ Windows.?
.

sunburnt wrote:My problem is that I can`t find dependency lists for any apps.

You could go here https://www.archlinux.org/packages/, type package name to search
and it will show list of dependencies and other details for Arch Linux packages.

example: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/comm ... 686/geany/

sunburnt wrote:.

My hope was to build apps. from binary files in Precise, or could be Slacko.
My problem is that I can`t find dependency lists for any apps.

.

this site shows dependencies http://pkgs.org/

sunburnt wrote:My hope was to build apps. from binary files in Precise, or could be Slacko.
My problem is that I can`t find dependency lists for any apps.
I would think that the problem is the same for compiling apps. from source files.

# Q: Is there a trick to this.? Or is this a great guarded secret of Linux.?

Well you can either search online or you can find out for yourself on your machine with a little bit of work.

If you have a package for some program... extract its files, then find the binary that is the actual binary to load the program... open a command line window in that directory and type: ldd ./binaryfilename
FYI, LDD stands for: List Dynamic Dependencies

example

Q5sys; I know about ldd, but it doesn`t show exec. deps., or fonts, or plugins, etc. that are needed.
Like Audacious has a bunch of exec. files that convert and other things that are part of Audacious.
Ubuntu and Debian have web pages, but you have to go page to page to get it all. Need a parser.!

666philb; I had great hopes for this site, but I can`t find any dep. lists, just descriptions. Ideas.???

simargl8; Arch Linux site is like Ubuntu/Debian, page to page to get "dep. packages" and then files.
But it may very well be easier to parse the Arch Linux site`s pages than Ubuntu/Debian pages.

# Need simple dep. files like this that list all deps. /path/file and "base urls".
Then a simple script could handle building most apps. ### I`m sorry about the "side conversation" here...
.

koulaxizis; ### What have you come up with for your apps. list?

Certain popular groups of apps. are best, probably lots of media and web apps.?

"can`t find dependency lists" -If these come from any other distro+toolchain+repo than what you are using they have absolutely no relevance. Binary dependencies can only be determined at the time the package is built -and the packages which contain these dependencies have their own dependency 'domain'.

In other words, a list of depends for archlinux or debian, etc have no relevancy with slacko or any other distro, version or mishmash. The only possible use of such lists is as a reference as to what the dependencies of any given package *could or might be*.

When you see a list of dependencies, it means that the distro/developer has implemented a comprehensive and consistent form of dependency *tracking*. Tracking dependencies does not necessarily mean 'resolving' them. It means that there is a mechanism for determining which packages need what -and can only be achieved by having comprehensive lists of files contained in each package. Including information about non-binary depends (like that 'man' needs 'groff' to work) can only be supplied by human input which can be add to or replace any generated info about binary/library depends.

It's worth noting that even if you find some library which matches the name and version of the one your program needs, it may not really be the right one at all -the content of libraries can vary according to specific configuration options used at *compile-time*.

In the thought of "Precise compatible", all the files should be the correct ones.
Ubuntu web pages have only two packages for each release ( i386, amd64 ).
So for each app., a dep. list of urls can be made pointing to the packages.
It`s certainly possible there`s exceptions to this rule, but it seems to hold true.

And in no way do I assume that any of the Precise Puppy`s are "compatible".
However if a PrecisePup were made from all Ubuntu files ( maybe they are...)

Even if compiling, file lists are still needed. Find the files from compile errors?
All apps. need a list of files. For distros. each app. has a list of dep. packages.

I`ve come up with about a half a dozen different ways to do this. But I`ll get it...
# Thanks everyone for your help.
.

I'm very sorry for not answering all this time!! Somehow, my account went inactive and i couldn't login! I'll read all of your answers carefully and i'll come back with a response. Thank you very much for participating and sorry for being absent!

My thoughts -

Libre Office
VLC & codecs
GIMP
Mirage/Viewnoir
Firefox
Mail client (T-bird, Claws, or Geary)
Light, easy-to-use audio player that handles streams & collections w/out trouble (perhaps Deadbeef?)
Many drivers

Wish List -
Advanced display tools (puppy + vga cable + y cable = streaming web content on your tv!)
4 games - digger, tetris, chess, mahjong

Scribus 1.4.3 or even better... the 1.5 version for Ubuntu

Or Krita 2.8?

I'd like to vote for the following

GIMP- its already there, but "me" can still use mtpaint with a good font-list. Me is in the minority on this one, I'll leave this alone.

FREEOFFICE- Replace that bulky Java and LibreOffice. Otherwise, there are very few uses for java... OK Pogo dot com but java is being orphaned. OTOH, LO4 does play nice with other formats. FreeOffice can read alot but not make. Personally, I'm an OO2/LO4 user, so everything I have are those formats, and make a PDF is still doable in FreeOffice. Perhaps this needs to be a fork, like Slacko-55L for this one and XL for the LO/Java version.

VLC (for all internet formats). yeah, I'm getting tired of mplayer. Time to level the field.

Tree should be mandatory under sentance of being fed cat-food

Edit *** I think one of the reasons for Slacko 55 XL is that it is large, but still fits on 1 CD. Along that line, I made my recommendations for 650Mb maximum. ***

GIMP has too big of an interface. We need something better.

LibreOffice is great, We can slim it down by removing kde stuff from it.

Seamonkey for sure

A fast DE that support multi monitors with an extended desktop (rather than just cloning it) would be nice. MATE fills this requirement.

GNOME-MPlayer/Gecko-mediaplayer for sure. VLC is great, but streaming in a web browser with it is a nightmare.

qbittorrent is my preferred bt client, but it uses qt (and a fat puppy shouldn't use qt anywhere). Transmission is an okay alternative.

Puppy Linux continues to mature. I'm not sure that I would agree with the JAVA comment. For nondevelopers and developers, alike, users experienced or new, JAVA is a simple subsystem that brings much needed crossplatform uses.

As our future unfolds, the computer industry, whether Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Google, Sun, IBM, smartPhone, smartTablet, smart Device, Unix, Linux, whatever; JAVA allows any developer to develop a subsystem for our use on any one platform, and for users to be able to use it on any other platform.

JAVA has its place in Puppy Linux, as so many new users are coming to Puppyland with all types of new configurations and needs where PUPs can be deployed to take advantage and provide useful services.

Let's not be missing the usefulness that it has and continues to provide us.

Do you mean JavaScript? Thats fairly well standard. LO4 uses the full JRE/JDK environment. Thats rather bulky, and browsers are moving away from it. "Popular" websites like POGO use Java Language, and as of now most modern FF browsers make it next to impossible to play games there. I know that in Slack55-XL the Java/LO4 pairing consume A LOT of space... IIRC about 630Mb/2.2Gb fully inflated.

There were 2 distros, not mentioned here, which have addressed all of what this thread brings to light by all commenters, above. The following 2 provide these out of the box (OOTB) with NO NEED TO INSTALL anything from the PPM. They are:

• PhatSlacko (32bit PCs)
• LightHouse Mariner version (64bit PCs)

These 2 are in addition to the work shared in this thread's opening post of Puppy Slacko 5.5 XL

LightHouse, in particular, provides FM facilities which bring visual "Tree" usage as a part of dealing with filesystem folders.

Here to help

ThoriumBlvd wrote:Do you mean JavaScript? ...

The issue of space only really relates to download sizes. But, what JAVA contributes is the ability for crossplatorm application use which allows Puppy to be the central or the bridge to apps that run everywhere. JAVA is more of an OS subsystem with the services it provides rather than a browser implementation.

BTW, which websites are you referring? There is a movement in HTML use. The handhelp/smartDevices/smartCars/etc market, which is what many websites address in their mobile implementations all know that Apple, Microsoft, and Android are JAVA platforms. You may have seen some references that speak otherwise. I may have missed that industry direction.

In any event, we are offering ideas for developers to consider as they move us forward into the Puppy Linux future.