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Posted: Tue 11 Oct 2011, 17:53
by qkall
you know i knew that... just wasn't thinking (was at work and was typing and 'listening')

Posted: Tue 11 Oct 2011, 20:48
by qkall
guys check the thread a developer is looking into it!! :!:

Posted: Tue 11 Oct 2011, 21:50
by Svartalf
qkall wrote:the devs are very active on their forums ... so much so i'd be willing to bet they would be willing to help to get puppy to boot and/or donate a board for puppy.
They would be willing, once the boards ship. They're limited in how many they have for the purposes of board bring-up. I tried to offer my help to the cause (I've done board bring up for many, many years and I'm one of the early pioneers of embedded Linux development...) but they couldn't hand out one to me. (Not sour grapes...I can completely understand their position and I've been trying to get to a point where I could do things for them and the community without having a board...)

As it stands, I'm looking at what all is needed to get Puppy to run on most ARM platforms (Reconfiguration of some things like boot would be required for each...) and only available time seems to have kept me from getting it done at this point. :D I should be able to vet my experiment here once I can actually get back to it this or next week shortly thereafter on my Beagleboard.

Posted: Tue 11 Oct 2011, 23:07
by Svartalf
nooby wrote:
Getting a development board is not easy
May I be so pessimistic that that Dev Board only works on
a special version of Vista and not on Win7 :)
Heh... Not even close. :twisted:
What about this almost Linux Debian them already have for ARM
so why can we not make a Debian small distro that is "almost" a clone of Puppy?
If you re-work Bones a little bit, it would BE a Puppy- they have a Debian version already up on the R-Pi alpha boards, and Bones is designed to use Debian as one of it's source distributions.

The $25 one have too small RAM memory. One need at least 512 and it has half of that. 1GB or more would be more ideal :)
1) Those memory requirements are for an X86 machine trying to boot into a Live CD. You need less if you boot into an SD card or HD and have a bit of swapfile/swap partition help. You'd be surprised what you CAN do with that "little" a memory. The very first LiveCD (Yggdrasil Plug-and-Play...back in the earliest days of Linux...) could manage to run a full-on Linux in 64Mb of RAM and a CD-ROM, combined with a HD to cache things. We SHOULD be able to manage something similar, no?

2) The $35 one will have 256MB of RAM...

3) Later on versions may have more memory so long as PoP Memory devices go down in price for the Foundation. Right now, they only have access to the 128 and 256 MB PoP modules at the price-points they're working on.

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 01:43
by puppyluvr
:D Hello,
Yes, John is indeed a developer..
Look up MurgaLua..
But in Puppy land, he is Forum Admin...
Must correct you tho..
BarryK is the Dev of Wary...
The current Dev of the main Puppy is 01micko...

And if it will boot Debian, it will boot Puppy...

Could have many embedded uses..
But to me kinda seems like a smartphone without a screen, keyboard, sound, etc...
Cute yes, but useful??

However, Puppy ported to an ARM based phone/tablet...
Is this the path??

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 02:17
by Lobster
But to me kinda seems like a smartphone without a screen, keyboard, sound, etc...
Cute yes, but useful??
Very useful.
Getting a group of Puppy's to develop for one phone or tablet may
not be feasible any time soon.

We have to start somewhere . . . 8)
However, Puppy ported to an ARM based phone/tablet...
Is this the path??
It is.
Barry originally designed Puppy to run from SD.
Puppy will become mobile and small again
It will be fun. :)

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 03:08
by puppyluvr
:D Hello,
@Ed, have you seen this?
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02513
Maybe mobile devices will come to us???

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 09:35
by Lobster
Thanks Jay - yes read that :)
The first run of 10 000 raspberry pi's will go very fast. There is a lot of interest. It is cheap. It works. It runs Linux. It is fun. Raffy is sending Barry one. We have Pi :)

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 14:56
by nooby
Hey that is cool
The first run of 10 000 raspberry pi's will go very fast.
So them are sure of that these will get sold? I am a pessimist.
If them sell fifty or so within a year? I would have felt over whelmed something :)

10 000 is very cool and if all those people can get them running too
and some of them join that forum that would be nice to have a place
to get help.

I am not sure what to do. I love silent computing and
this one promise to have no fan what so ever on it?

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 16:32
by Lobster
I am a pessimist
tsk tsk
I am a hypocritical pessimist.
I say the opposite of my doubts . . . :wink:

The interest in this is very high.
Some geeks have even put down their pizza
and taken an extra swig of jolt . . .

I have an evil plan . . . :twisted:
Puppy + hardware. :)
In the future we do not support everything
(been there got the t-shirt) - still available for the forseable future
We start to say:
'We are Puppy users and we will buy and use this hardware.'

Now we have Puppy Power . . .

Posted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 20:48
by nooby
Haha I feel for teasing you Lobster.

Saying is very cheap. To actually do something cost effort and talent. :)

I am a True Pessimist (TM) Hahah, I have made the Ultimate Pessimist Linux.
"This Pessimist Linux OS will never boot in Full install.
You have to do a frugal install on NTFS and use Grub4dos
and please don't read the Pessimist Manual, it will only discourage you . :) "

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 06:28
by veronicathecow
Yup, I am interested in running one of those with Puppy. If fact I suggested to the developers they look at Puppy before I came across this thread.
Many thanks.

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 07:32
by Lobster
Barry has mentioned the thread so we may get further interest :)
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02541

The Aakash tablet will inspire a Chinese built large phone (basically all a tablet is) at a commodity price. By then the Aakash may be more than the yearly Indian vapourware announcements. The Indian government (like most of our 'leaders'*) could not order a chicken masala in a curry house. This Aakash (Aakash cow perhaps?) could be a while yet. Time during which we can play with a cheap arm motherboard . . .

*My 'government' for want of a better word, spent £12 billion on . . . vapourware . . . :shock:
http://news.techeye.net/business/mps-de ... -disasters
The patients are having to sort it
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mark ... cheme.html

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 13:17
by technosaurus
If anyone has the hardware (or at least something similar... including qemu) you may want to check out:

landley.net/aboriginal
Rob builds a full cross-compile linuxfromscratch environment that works in qemu
(I use the 586 build to make static uclibc multicall binaries)

The pupngo thread has most of my & goingnuts work on building a minimal bootstrap desktop environment (jwm, rxvt, ...) we don't run heavyweight daemons by default either.

Iirc, xvesa is fairly x86 specific, so you may need to check out jemimah's work with xvfb (puppy kernels have fbcon as a module, which requires some additional work)

Since there aren't really going to be any proprietary apps available, a build based on uclibc or musl libc makes sense IMHO alpine linux or openwrt are a good place for learning uclibc b/c that's all they do... but that brings us to needing replacements for flash (lightspark, gnash, swfdec...) and others(Skype, ...)

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 16:53
by JohnMurga
technosaurus wrote:If anyone has the hardware (or at least something similar... including qemu) you may want to check out:

landley.net/aboriginal
Seriously cool, thanks for the link !

Ironically I already ported murgaLua to ARM a while ago (to the FreeRunner), so chances are that'll be getting one of these devices to play with too (once they are available).

Cheers
John de Murga

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 17:17
by nooby
Cool hope you get time to do some dev for puppy and ARM.
That LUA you have done what is that? I know too little to even guess
what it is. Linux User Application? What can it stand for?

Don't bet on it...

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 22:49
by Svartalf
technosaurus wrote:Since there aren't really going to be any proprietary apps available, a build based on uclibc or musl libc makes sense IMHO alpine linux or openwrt are a good place for learning uclibc b/c that's all they do... but that brings us to needing replacements for flash (lightspark, gnash, swfdec...) and others(Skype, ...)
Wanna bet that there'll not be any proprietary apps? I port games to Linux after hours in addition to my puttering around with making Linux distributions. :D

As for being uclibc...bad idea, really. It works decently enough for embedded solutions, but it's missing all sorts of things to get it to being that way. You'll find that it works nicely enough on a router, firewall, or similar (which is what Rob's aiming for with Aboriginal...), but past that, you're better off with glibc or eglibc. (Not to mention that I've already gotten an OE userland I'm in the process of proving out that's optimized for ARMv6 for the R-Pi... ;) )

murgaLua...

Posted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 22:56
by Svartalf
nooby wrote:Cool hope you get time to do some dev for puppy and ARM.
That LUA you have done what is that? I know too little to even guess
what it is. Linux User Application? What can it stand for?
murgaLua's a platform that combines the simplicity of the Lua programming language with a lightweight GUI toolkit, FLTK, and a DB engine, sqLite, to make a usable tool that's cross-platform as all get-out.

Posted: Fri 14 Oct 2011, 08:48
by Lobster
Guys :)

John Murga aka Judge Dredd, who finances this forum is a developer and Murga Lua was in Puppy for a while - and in the past John has created the very fast 'Mean Puppy'.
He is ordering 4 units :D
I for himself and 3 for Puppy developers.

His generosity has prompted me to start Parm. I will announce a wiki page soon. 8)

Stay Tooned.

Puppy Pi
We compute

Posted: Fri 14 Oct 2011, 10:39
by Lobster
Guys have created a formal announcement
and written to Raspberry Pi of our intent

We have been talking of a Puppy Phone and lately
ARM tablets for long enough.

Puppy + ARM hardware = PARM
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM

We will be smaller
more efficient and have a better logo
(coming soon once our crayons are sharpened) :)

Puppy
Seriously Linux