(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Ha Ha... this thread reads a bit like 'Paranoia Today', rightly I guess.

Puppyiso kind of hit the nail with the China story.

Truth is that many opressive governments have their hopes set on this because it means that many people will be out of luck when it comes to VPNs and proxies. Meaning they can't access outside information and are easier to control.

Also say goodbye to software companies. Cloud computing means nothing downloaded or installed. Basically meaning that you have to type online, draw online, and do everything online. I don't even want think about virus protections.

People have their heads up you know where. One has to understand that advertising is essentially manipulation. A company hires some actor to fool you into thinking a certain way with catchy slogans. They won't tell you the real risks involved. I mean their foolish definition of a free market has done nothing but rob people of choices and freedoms.

So to think that their new idea of giving you no control over your own data or free speech is somehow good for us and a better choice, is beyond laughable.

It reminds me of the old George Carlin stand up routine where he talked about how customer service really works. I won't say it here, I'll get muted for sure.
If your curious then watch his old stand up specials.

More Sony bad news: Sony Online also compromised (this goes beyond the PlayStation Network)

The Sony hack story just gets worse and worse. Now, in addition to the 77 million PlayStation Network accounts that were compromised, Joystiq reports that Sony Online Entertainment was compromised as well, to the tune of another 24.6 million accounts.

In addition, Joystiq reports that more than 12,000 credit card numbers were stolen.

That means that if you’re a player of many popular PC online MMOs, your information has been stolen as well. SOE operates EverQuest, EverQuest II, PlanetSide, Star Wars Galaxies, Free Realms, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and DC Universe Online.

Apparently, this is not a separate penetration. Although Sony has long maintained that there entertainment systems were separated, criminals apparently managed to exfiltrate data from both networks.

Seems to me this is an example of what will happen if you trust the cloud.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I live in a community where I can ride a bus or a taxi without being robbed. I can put my money in an FDIC-insured bank and be reasonably sure I'll be able to get to it. I can leave my clothes at a dry cleaners and they don't get stolen. There are lots of people who choose to use these services exclusively, rather than owning a car, having a safe at home, or doing their own dry cleaning.

What makes computing as a service different? I think it has more to do with the current absence of proper legal regulation/recourse on service providers than it does with the idea of computing as a service. I understand that cloud computing today has the problems you've stated. My response is that stricter regulation (rather than simply not using the cloud) is a better answer to these problems.

Want an example of Cloud for Puppy when the ISP drops some support of someone trying for a Puppy Cloud like experience?
go here.

So is that an example, or just a case of links not being updated by the maker of the site?

8-bit wrote:Want an example of Cloud for Puppy when the ISP drops some support of someone trying for a Puppy Cloud like experience?
go here.

So is that an example, or just a case of links not being updated by the maker of the site?

the idea is cool, but...

thane wrote:Maybe I'm lucky, but I live in a community where I can ride a bus or a taxi without being robbed. I can put my money in an FDIC-insured bank and be reasonably sure I'll be able to get to it. I can leave my clothes at a dry cleaners and they don't get stolen. There are lots of people who choose to use these services exclusively, rather than owning a car, having a safe at home, or doing their own dry cleaning.

What makes computing as a service different? I think it has more to do with the current absence of proper legal regulation/recourse on service providers than it does with the idea of computing as a service. I understand that cloud computing today has the problems you've stated. My response is that stricter regulation (rather than simply not using the cloud) is a better answer to these problems.

Several things actually.

The first being that the internet blends together many communities.
The second being that that cloud operating system would completely useless offline.
Not everyone is privy to a broadband connection. What if someone needs to use dialup?

Another thing you've said is stricter regulation. More like de-regulation. You obviously don't follow techno politics.

Well I had to watch Julius Geinakowski (Or however you spell his name) from the FCC basically give over mobile and wired networks to Verizon and Google.

Saying, "here do whatever you want with them"

In a world without Net Neutrality, and I hope that the fights not over, but in a world without it, cloud is an even worse option.

I enjoyed reading this thread, giving a decent heads up to clouding as it is new to me, too. I first became familiar with it when I tried Panda Firewall for XP. I dropped it soon after due to it being too complicated and using dial up made clouding unrealistic. Earlier this week I saw an add for Windows Cloud something or other, so it is being pushed more. I certainly don't like the idea. I don't even like akonadi that is now being used in KDE4.
Cramps

Totally not interested in cloud computing.At all.

Some interesting views here. I'm a novice to cloud computing - got kind of interested after Apple announced its launch of iCloud. Chanced upon this cloud computing seminar by Amazon on 27 June but it's going to be held in Seoul (and probably in Korean): http://aws.amazon.com/apac/seminars/2011/06/27/seoul/.

Oh My... it must be the word itself (CLOUD) that has so many in disillusion!

To all who use Gmail, shop at Ebay, Amazon, use internet, read an online Newspaper, work on your online Banking and... You who VIEW THIS FORUM on your computer and post messages, guess what? 'You Are Using Cloud Computing' whether you realize it or not. 'Period!!!'

Cloud has 'Always' been used by everyone that owns a computer and goes online! The only thing that has changed is the NAME from 'Online Programs' to now... 'Cloud'. The only difference now is that Cloud is adding features that allow you to interact with a lot of different programs ONLINE without the need to install them on your personal PC, and to use many programs that you would would never be able to install on your PC and have them function at all.

If one can't understand this and you still don't like the name 'Cloud', just change the name to something you like and can maybe understand better!

>>>---Indian------>

Good point about thin clients. Yes, it's similar. The only thing is that there is no one server in the so called cloud. The data is sliced in a number of chunks and then sent to several servers, that might be on different continents. The person owning those servers son't be able to recover data simply because he doesn't have whole data.

It's like if you cut dollar in three pieces and send it over different post offices to different people. They won't be able to use that 1/3 dollar pieces, but they can send them over to you, and you'll be able to recover that dollar.

The next thing is that if anyone gets three envelopes and it's not you, then he will use your dollar. But you can lock every envelope with special key pair, then no one will able to unlock it except from you. It's called cryptography. You know who exactly sender is, you know who delivered envelope to you, you know that no one have altered what is in that envelope.

Cryptography is a very powerful thing which guarantees that your's is only your's, but can be stored in the open place.

"Cloud" isn't Internet. "Cloud" can be Freenet or Netsukuku. Because we are people. When we collaborate, great things are happen. You can see this with Puppy. We are community, or "legion" — and that's great, we must use it, not turn around from it because we don't understand it.

So, summing everything up before you got too bored:
"Cloud" — distributed storage space and computer power, that available as service, as if you own it as one machine, with, actually, enhanced security and availability. I can't find anything similar to this in the real world, but think of it as on-demand taxi, which is actually really big bus with bodyguards and armored windows. Oh, and with bar too. And you see only yourself inside it. Something like this.

For those still skeptical of the Cloud... Have a look at what's currently happening and then report back here whether Cloud isn't better than what you have now and isn't the future of computing?


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Computers-P ... MP=rdr5387

I doubt you can call this a Step Backwards!!!

>>>---Indian------>

Gee...
All your programs, all your data..on a server...under someone elses control..
Big Brother would like that..
A step backwards in personal freedom...
Give up your individuality...
Join the Cloud...

No thanks....

sszindian wrote:For those still skeptical of the Cloud... Have a look at what's currently happening and then report back here whether Cloud isn't better than what you have now and isn't the future of computing?


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Computers-P ... MP=rdr5387

I doubt you can call this a Step Backwards!!!

>>>---Indian------>

Reading the blurb its hardly a step forward either considering you can do all this + more on a conventional laptop / notebook .

What happens if you don't have a wifi connection and are out of 3g signal range - Does the chromebook becomes a chrome brick?

The Cloud. The Pied Piper is playing for you.

The Cloud, how wonderful it is. Let us put all of our knowledge and experience into the Cloud where it will be available to everyone everywhere at their very finger tips. Save the forests and the environment, no paper needed with the Cloud. No written books, no libraries, all of that is in the past. The knowledge of the entire world is instantly accessible at any time from the Google Oracle. Ask and ye shall receive. What an enlightened society it will bring.

Then the lights go out... and stay out.

How you doing stu90? Haven't spoke with you lately...

stu90 wrote:

What happens if you don't have a wifi connection and are out of 3g signal range - Does the chromebook becomes a chrome brick?
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Good point! and you are 100% right on... but... is it any different than your cell-phone? I'm sure you have one of those? doesn't everybody in this age!!! Pretty hard to be without one anymore. If Cloud stuff eventually goes all satellite (and I believe it will) the problems with dead-spots (like cell-phones, Google Chromebooks will have) will be a thing of the past. It's just a matter of time and it should be as affordable as cable, maybe even a lot less as it becomes more popular. I know our government is currently working on a plan to get the entire U.S. capable of wireless, high-speed Internet, there are even rumors of wifi inducted into electric lines... Wow... blows your mind.

Many are rambling on about 'Big Brother' watching us via the Cloud... I'll only say it once... since anyone has had a Land-Line or Cell Phone, Internet Connection (any type.. land-line, cable, sattelite, wifi) you have given up what used to be know as 'Privacy.' Especially since 911. Super Computers can now track 'everyone's Internet and phone calls in less than a minute, and that's for EVERYONE in the entire world! So don't even try to debate that issue!

What we are in people is a 'Technology BOOM' Not I, but the so-called experts predict that technology will advance 'More In The Next Year' than it has in the 'Past 20-Years' They say it will be more than our minds can keep up too... From what I see happening on a day by day basis, I can believe it!!! Thankfully, there are still enough 'Light' Puppy programs to fill our needs on the older hardware and probably so for years to come but that doesn't mean one should be turning his head the other way to new technology, In my tread in these forums on Cloud Puppy, I listed some Cloud programs (and Lobster listed quiet a few in his post there) All these can be used by ANY version of Puppy to enhance ones online experience with apps (in the Cloud) many that are not possible to install or normally use in any Puppy Version (except via your Browser.) If you can't call that 'A step Forward' I don't know what else there is, I certainly don't see anything better being developed for Puppy's future anywhere?

Oh.. 2byte... When the lights go out, no matter Cloud, Dial-up, WiFi... throw your computer out, we're all finished

>>>---Indian------>

"The Cloud" doesn't particularly concern me, not in the "Big Brother" sense that most in the thread seem to fear. Like most things, you pays your money, and you takes your chances.

I'm worried that it is, at the end of the day, simply data lock-in that will be the worst thing about the cloud. (We've all fought that battle before) It will shake out to a few big corporations, and putting your data in any silo will mean it becomes increasingly more difficult to get out, either through lack of standards, or merely through inertia. Every tried to upload, or download, 75GB of photos? Imagine moving your data after 10 years of uploading pics, movies, docs, spreadsheets, etc. I shudder....

Looks like the last few post (mine included) from yesterday were deleted here !!! I haven't had that happen before.

>>>---Indian------>

The Cloud is inevitable simply because that is where computer technology is headed. Witness the newest OS offerings. The only thing that will prevent it is if enough people simply refuse to use it, if that's possible. It will become reality because most people are inherently lazy and will always take the easy way, blind to potential consequences.

@Indian. and civilization will have a much harder time recovering if our accumulated knowledge vanishes with the lights.
Consider this; if your identity is totally in the cloud (all digital), all of your tax returns, business records, bank accounts, property deeds, birth record, everything, it becomes easy for the government, or whatever powers that be, to simply erase you if you become troublesome. You would not be able to prove you own your house, pay for anything, or even buy food. What if your identity simply vanished overnight, like your posts? Oops.

In case you can't tell, I love a good conspiracy theory! It doesn't have to be completely true to be good.