Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[saintless]

Hi, Terry.

The last Wallpapers.GUI seems not changing wallpapers after Start wallpapers is activated. I remember you added few lines of code about Aplay button there and this should be the only change.
This is the download link for the archive with bacon source code also included. Only wallpapers.gui has a problem:
http://www.smokey01.com/saintless/sourc ... rs-GUI.zip

Toni

[fredx181]

@William

Just posting from your latest Porteus-Wheezy now Fred. All looking good so far. Only thing is you still have uxterm there.

Damn.. I knew I forgot something.. but what...

@Toni

First post updated with the changes from page 94 post.
Only Porteus-Wheezy -porteus-kernel and your newest Porteus-Wheezy-Deb-kernel-3.12 are uploaded on the site.
If you need the previous versions with deb-kernel uploaded also just write.

Thanks , it's fine for me how it is now.

Fred

[fredx181]

Hi Toni, William
About icewm-menu:
Following the instructions from here:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=58109
I got this(see pic below)
But... It needs python (16MB)
And but.. it removes all your custom entries.
(which may be solved by creating .desktop files for these in /usr/share/applications)
And .. AFAIK it can only be updated (when new program is installed) by running the same command (not update-menus) but this can be automated with every login (see advice in same thread)
btw, if you try it. change "lxterminal" to "xterm" in the suggested commandline

Hopefully a step in the right direction.

Fred

[tigs]

Hi Fred, thanks for reply. That seems to be an easy fix. will try it.

Would you be able to look into why after write-protection is turned on, the changes I made will not be able to be loaded any more? If I remaster the ISO, do you think that will work? With lucid puppy, the save file can be modified on the fly with accumulative changes. Once satisfied with the change, I can simply turn on the write protection to prevent accidental unwanted changes. To modify, just turn the write-protection off and make the necessary changes. Once finished, I can turn the wtite-protection on again. This seems cool and convenient. i wonder the same feature can be accomplished with either debiandog or porteus-wheezy.

once again, thanks and allowing to use apt-get is great.

[sunburnt]

Hi Toni; Looks like you guys are getting the small stuff fixed now.

# Perhaps a script can be written to do what Fred has Python doing.
Write new IceWM menu files from desktop files. ( I`ll have to make desktop files for my apps.)


I had changed wallpapers.gui to force the new [Apply] to be immediate.
I thought it was working well, but I`ll take a look at it to see what you found Toni.

I have ArcDrop extracting Squash and ISO files, and making Squash files.
Making ISO files is so use specific I could not decide what options to use.
# If anyone has an idea ( code ) for a good generic "make ISO file", post it and I`ll include it.

I reworked the mime editor, all it could do for us is editing the MIME-types script files.
I don`t know if this is really all that important... Ideas.?

[mcewanw]

Fred, Sorry to say the latest Porteus-Wheezy is not booting on my Acer emachines netbook, whilst DebianDog boots okay. I presume it must be the kernel, which surprises me since no problem booting on my old Fujitsu Amilo Siemens laptop (Pentium-M machine). On emachines netbook booting gets as far as:

Code: Select all

LOAD SWAP
dhcpd [2567]: version 5.6.4 starting

and just freezes at that point. It is the first time I've tried booting any Porteus-Wheezy version on my netbook and I don't have copies of any previous version.

EDIT: I'm now downloading Porteus-Wheezy.iso and Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso (from old gdrive link) to see if either of these boot successfully on the emachines netbook. Result: Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso booted successfully on the emachines netbook, so didn't bother trying the even earlier one. The newer version kernel apparently doesn't like the netbook; I'll check the md5sum later, just in case.

[saintless]

Hi, all.

Thank you, Fred!

William,
Icewm or JWM was a choice of smaller WM. Python install is something I try to avoid from the beginning. If we have to install Python just for having different structured start menu there is no point of keeping icewm at all. Fred's link makes possible to have start menu like xfce but a quote from this thread:

IceWM is still friendly to use and light. But having to edit its menu by hand ...

DebianDog does not have this problem at all. All new installed packages have auto-generated start menu entry and Icewm-Control-Center GUI gives option to have different $HOME/.icewm/menu file for every user. This will be not possible if we change the way of generating menu entries from .desktop files in /usr/share/applications
It is not worth to add Python packages size and to loose separate $HOME/.icewm/menu option for every user just for menu structure change. And lets not forget even if we do it it will not solve the same way JWM start menu structure. We will have to look similar solution for JWM menu also.
I guess it is possible to look for puppy way solution by removing /etc/x11/icewm/programs and adapt a script from puppy to add menu entry from /usr/share/application*.desktop files in /$HOME/.icewm/menu but we still loose the option for different menu file for every user.

Terry,
what you think is best about editing MIME types scripts I will include it. If you are going to add option in your scripts to create .desktop files, you should make also possible to add file in /usr/share/menu
DebianDog auto-creates menu entry from there.

Toni

[mcewanw]

William,
Icewm or JWM was a choice of smaller WM. Python install is something I try to avoid from the beginning. If we have to install Python just for having different structured start menu there is no point of keeping icewm at all.

Certainly I feel we need to keep the lightest possible options in DebianDog - that has to be the overall guiding principle since making it light is what it is all about really; I definitely agree no therefore to including Python by default. Best in these circumstances just to accept the auto-generated menu structure. I can imagine that ways will be found to translate that format by some automatic mechanism later. In the meantime I'm happy enough to live with it!

[fredx181]

Hi Toni

It is not worth to add Python packages size and to loose separate $HOME/.icewm/menu option for every user just for menu structure change.

I can imagine you don't like the python solution for several reasons.
But in the meantime I've found something much better.
See below: xdg-menu-icewmm.zip
It's taken from archlinux "xdg-menu" package (a perl script but I modified a little)
It depends on libxml-parser-perl to be installed.(needs around 5MB extra space)
It will update only the "Programs" section, so all custom entries in menu are not touched.(and works with muli-user also AFAIK)
Looks like below picture.
The update-menus is a bash script I made myself (because /opt/bin is first in PATH it will then be executed instead of /usr/bin/update-menus) and it executes /opt/bin/xdg_menu.

Some applications are not showed because not present in /usr/share/applications (e.g. gmplayer)

Regards

Fred

[fredx181]

Hi William

Result: Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso booted successfully on the emachines netbook, so didn't bother trying the even earlier one. The newer version kernel apparently doesn't like the netbook;

OK, so that seems like disadvantage of the newer kernel.
Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso was for testing and isn't as complete as the last one.
If you want I can help with transforming the latest to use stable kernel.

Fred

[saintless]

Thank you, Fred

I think 5 Mb is not much to add if William is happy with only one submenu after Programs menu.
I will test this for user and root and report back and maybe ask some more questions in the next days.
Thank you again!

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi tigs

Would you be able to look into why after write-protection is turned on, the changes I made will not be able to be loaded any more? If I remaster the ISO, do you think that will work? With lucid puppy, the save file can be modified on the fly with accumulative changes. Once satisfied with the change, I can simply turn on the write protection to prevent accidental unwanted changes. To modify, just turn the write-protection off and make the necessary changes. Once finished, I can turn the wtite-protection on again. This seems cool and convenient. i wonder the same feature can be accomplished with either debiandog or porteus-wheezy.

Sorry, I can't be of much help because I cannot test what you're trying (don't have usb with write-protection)
Did you try with different "changes=/.." options?
Maybe "changes=EXIT:/.." option helps.
EDIT:

With lucid puppy, the save file can be modified on the fly with accumulative changes. Once satisfied with the change, I can simply turn on the write protection to prevent accidental unwanted changes

Perhaps you mean with pupmode=13 and click the Save icon.
Same thing can be done on porteus-wheezy, but only when using "changes=EXIT:/.." boot option.
To save changes in the middle of a session do in terminal:

Code: Select all

save2flash

Fred

[konaexpress]

Hey Fred, that menu looks really nice.

John

[saintless]

Hi, William,

Can you, please, experiment with last Fred's suggestion about start menu. It seems to work from quick test but I use change path in /opt/bin/update-menus:
/etc/X11/icewm/programs instead $HOME/.icewm/programs
This way all users have menu entry no matter from which user account new program is installed and in same time we keep separate $HOME/.icewm/menu file option for each user.

Last Fred's suggestion adds 5 Mb uncompressed and saves one submenu in general + one more sub-sub menu for System programs.
I personal do not like menu section Others for example. Rox does not have menu entry which is strange because it is apt-get installed program. This makes me think some programs does not create /usr/share/applications/*.desktop file? Xfe goes in System tools but I guess it will be easy to reconfigure this from desktop files.
We need to test more new installed programs to see what section will be used for them in the menu.

Note this will work only for IceWM. JWM will use the standard menu structure we have now.

For me is not important what is the programs menu configuration, so the last word about this comes from you, William. If you like this menu structure and the menu subject is closed I agree to use it and we can go further.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi William

Result: Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso booted successfully on the emachines netbook, so didn't bother trying the even earlier one. The newer version kernel apparently doesn't like the netbook;

OK, so that seems like disadvantage of the newer kernel.
Porteus-Wheezy2-deb-kernel.iso was for testing and isn't as complete as the last one.
If you want I can help with transforming the latest to use stable kernel.

Fred

William,
you can use 02-486-kernel.squashfs (rename to .xzm) + vmlinuz1 + initrd1.xz from DebianDog-PorteusDog.iso to boot tha latest Porteus-Wheezy with the old kernel if you like to use it this way for testing.

Toni

[mcewanw]

Hi, William,

Can you, please, experiment with last Fred's suggestion about start menu
...
If you like this menu structure and the menu subject is closed I agree to use it and we can go further.

Toni

Hi Toni, I'll check out that menu today. It looks good from the images posted.

As far as latest Porteus-Wheezy is concerned, I'm planning to double check it on my netbook and if, as I suspect, the kernel rather than a bad md5sum is the issue, I'll continue further testing with the older kernel squashfile you suggest.

[fredx181]

Hi Toni

Rox does not have menu entry which is strange because it is apt-get installed program. This makes me think some programs does not create /usr/share/applications/*.desktop file?

Indeed that's strange, I had same problem with Rox on xfce, had to create .desktop file manually.
But I can assure you that this is an exception, for years I use xfce and never had this issue.
But yes there's a little confusing difference for example xhippo which has in .desktop file "Categories=Audio" and isn't recognized with xdg_menu.
btw, I like Category "Other' because when something is wrong with the .desktop file it still appears in the menu

Again in the meantime I made improvement to xdg_menu, now with category icons (see pic below)
Also below new xdg-menu-icewm.zip

you can use 02-486-kernel.squashfs (rename to .xzm) + vmlinuz1 + initrd1.xz from DebianDog-PorteusDog.iso to boot tha latest Porteus-Wheezy with the old kernel if you like to use it this way for testing

That's very clever I didn't think of it.

EDIT: I just see the "Other" category is missing in the picture, that's because I fixed xhippo and xrecord .desktop files in /usr/share/applications (included in the archive)

Regards,
Fred

[saintless]

Hi, Fred.

Again in the meantime I made improvement to xdg_menu, now with category icons (see pic below)
Also below new xdg-menu-icewm.zip

Thank you! I will test it better tomorrow with more applications installed.

btw, I like Category "Other' because when something is wrong with the .desktop file it still appears in the menu

I agree this is really good reason to have Other category then.

Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Toni

Thank you! I will test it better tomorrow with more applications installed

Thanks Toni
Take your time and the last thing I want is to force things on you.
The DebianDog-icewm-wheezy is of course your project so it's your choice to include what you want.
I just like sometimes to explore/improve things

I forgot to mention:
The script xdg_menu is changed, so it's needed to remove it's cache directory otherwise it won't work.
So before running "update-menus" do in terminal:

Code: Select all

rm -rf ~/.xdg_menu_cache

Fred

[mcewanw]

Fred, Toni: re: DebianDog start menu, I feel that 5MB extra uncompressed just for flexibility in changing menu style is still a bit painful - unless somehow optional. I'm not sure. Shortly trying out xdg-menu package though, with your suggestions.

Just prior to trying out the xdg-menu package I've been doing some background reading and note a couple of interesting puppy threads and implementations. You may well be aware of these but if not they might be worth investigating for alternative 'solutions'. A quick look at the involved scripts suggests to me that they are very 'Puppy' oriented though, so possibly not very easily adapted:

Puppy dynamic menu structure Project by rarsa:

http://dotpups.de/dotpups/WindowManager ... README.htm
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.p ... 68de#21105

Support for IceWM completed!
...
Please notice that there are already scripts available for IceWM and Fvwm. The problem is that they depend either on Python or on Perl. I tried to keep it as simple as possible

New xdg menu for Puppy by Mobeus:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 412#699412
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=85422

Lightweight, compiled in C and only depends on gtk2 or gtk3 and gnome-menus, which are standard Puppy components. Menu editors from other OSs mostly have dependencies like perl or python or java. After studying the freedesktop.org spec I realized that Puppy’s menu system could be simplified and would actually conform to the spec better than it does now. So, I reworked it and built the menu generator that produced the menu in the screenshot above.

So far the system will generate menus for icewm, jwm, and openbox/lxpanel, which are the ones I use mostly. It even supports openbox/lxpanel with menu-cache. It should also support other desktops or panels that use freedesktop.org xdg menus. I plan to add fbpanel too, if there is any interest. The system and editor will support individual user menus too, should that ever be desired.

Note that the main part of Mobeus's work is written in BaCon I believe, so maybe Terry would like to check that out.

Of course you'd have to have gnome-menus without all the python bits and pieces apt-get installs for it. I presume it doesn't need python since the comment above says gnome-menus is installed by default in Puppy and libgnome-menu from puppy precise (if that is all that is required) is under 100k uncompressed).