Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs

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greengeek
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Re: Questions about the desktop and downloads

#81 Post by greengeek »

DavidSpector wrote:in Windows there is a directory called Desktop that contains exactly the files shown on the Windows Desktop..
Actually - I don't think that is true - they look as if they are on the "Desktop" but they actually are not. They are stored somewhere else and the "Desktop" is really only an artificial index (or hidden shortcut) to their real location.

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nic007
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#82 Post by nic007 »

Hi, David

I suggest creating a download folder (with name of your choice) on one of your partitions with enough space but ouside of the running filesystem. Look at the left-bottom of the desktop for the available partitions. So for example: left-click on sda1 > right-click in a space in the window and select new and directory from the popup menus > create your folder with name of your choice (say Downloads). The path to this folder you have created will be shown on top of the window when you open the folder.

sheldonisaac
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"download folder"

#83 Post by sheldonisaac »

nic007 wrote:Hi, David

I suggest creating a download folder (with name of your choice) on one of your partitions with enough space but ouside of the running filesystem. Look at the left-bottom of the desktop for the available partitions. So for example: left-click on sda1 > right-click in a space in the window and select new and directory from the popup menus > create your folder with name of your choice (say Downloads). The path to this folder you have created will be shown on top of the window when you open the folder.
David, I endorse what nic007 said, as I understood it.

I have one called
/mnt/sdb3/Downloads
I usually boot Xenial (sometimes other Puppys) from /mnt/sda1
Dell E6410: BusterPup, BionicPup64, Xenial, etc
Intel DQ35JOE, Dell Vostro 430
Dell Inspiron, Acer Aspire One, EeePC 1018P

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mikeslr
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Keeping Unnecessary Files Out of RAM

#84 Post by mikeslr »

Hi David,

Just providing another reason to have the files you download go directly to your hard-drive.

As you are running a Frugal Tahrpup, I'll refer to what happens under it. In other Puppies, only the names would change.

If you Left-click the icon on a Tahrpup's OOTB Desktop at the top left corner with the name "Home" or "Files" a window will open to /root. It is something like the "Documents and Settings" folder under Windows. In Frugal Puppies, however, every time you boot up the contents of this folder are newly created in RAM by copying some files/folders --in Linux a folder is just a specialized file-- from vmlinuz, puppy_tahr_6.0.5.sfs, zdrv_tahr_6.0.5.sfs and your tahrsave-xxx.sfs, and creating links (inodes) to the rest of the contents of those files.

The important point is that they whatever is in /root is in RAM, reducing the amount of RAM you have for productive work.

If you download a file into /root/Desktop or /root/Downloads, that file also occupies RAM. Say, for example, you decided to try out Geoffrey's 228.6 Mb graphic suite adrive, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 257#937257. It will remain in RAM until you move it, or perform a Save and reboot. Exclusive of other things occupying RAM, you've reduced your usable RAM from 1 Gb to 771.4 Mbs. If you don't move it, after a Save and Reboot, at least some RAM will be used to point to it now in your SaveFile. And if you don't move it and shutdown/reboot without Saving, the file you downloaded is gone because RAM is cleared on shutdown/reboot.

The better way to imitate what you were doing under Windows is to create a Downloads folder on /mnt/home*. Left-Click the desktop-drive icon of your Home Partition/Drive. It will have an 'x' at its top-right corner immediately on bootup. This will open a window to the contents of your Home Partition. Right-Click an empty space, select New>Directory from the popup Menu, and give it a name, such as Downloads. You can drag this folder to your desktop which will create a symbolic link (short-cut) to it. Then configure your Web-browser to use that folder for its downloads.

As you are using Palemoon, click Edit on its Taskbar, then Preferences, then General, then the radio-button next to the phrase "Save Files to" and then browse to /mnt/home/Downloads. My preference after setting a default download folder is to then check the button "Always Ask...".

Although you could create a Downloads folder --or whatever you want to call it-- on any drive/partition, by default only /mnt/home is mounted automatically on bootup. You can, however, configure Tahrpup to automatically mount other partitions using Menu>Filesystem>pmount. See bigpup's post: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 543#976543

Although Puppies can have access to any drive/partition, to do so such drive/partition has to be mounted. When they are mounted a link to them is created at /mnt (and I think something is also written to /etc). Puppies will then automatically follow the link to the actual drive/partition. Unfortunately, Puppies are not smart enough to know by themselves when a drive/partition isn't mounted. That makes it possible to execute instructions by which a Puppy will write directly in /mnt or in a "folder" in /mnt --for example /mnt/sda2-- representing a short-cut to a drive/partition which hasn't been, is is no longer, mounted. When that happens, Puppy is no longer able to create the link to the actual drive/partition, and you can no longer access that drive/partition until the file improperly written is deleted.

In short, if you configure your Puppy to automatically use other than its Home Partition, remember to have such other partition automatically mounted.

mikesLr

* It is my understanding that that is pretty much what Windows actually does: that is the folders "in" Documents and Settings" are actually just short-cuts to locations on the physical partition on which Windows resides (C: drive). Windows does not maintain the strict distinction between RAM and Storage that Puppies maintain. Consequently, it constantly writes to Storage, slowing down its execution of every operation.

hamoudoudou

With no Pupsave, but files on Hardrive

#85 Post by hamoudoudou »

just an aparte about mikeslr information (always safe, you can trust him)..
If Puppy linux can run without changing anything in your hard drive, that means that everyting is loaded in RAM, and you can remove your CD or DVD from the player.
That is false with Other Linux OS, where CD or DVD or Hard disk is permanently working.. so the OS has the speed of CD, or DVD or Hard drive but not the RAM one, 1000 x faster..

With no Pupsave, Your Puppy is like a common oS, slow as them, because Puppy always is working with hardware outside RAM ... Like an airplane linked to a train, it's no longer a Puppy.
Folders on hard disk, grub2 i/O Grub4dos, all that way of doing kill Puppy Linux innovation and makes Puppy loose huge performance it had compared with vintage (and boring) Linux.

hamoudoudou

for mess with operating system

#86 Post by hamoudoudou »

mikeb wrote:The sfs size only affects the size of the tmpfs when ram space is limited...above a certain point its a blanket calculation that you experience.
By the way do any of you actually use yer computers to do anything other than mess with operating systems.
Mike
That is a real pleasure for you.. not sure that downloaders download Puppy Linux for mess with operating system (famous passengers)
Whatever, remove automatic pupsave is efficient in PUPMODE 13
and PUPMODE 12 when pup_RW is transfererd in RAM to pup_ro1 to give user choice to save or not at shutdown, or during session.

Mayou

Pupeventmanager set 'never, only at shutdown.

#87 Post by Mayou »

Pupeventmanager set 'never, only at shutdown.
Puppies should be delivered .with this setting as default. What a permanent writing is of interest ? Just slows down Puppy Linux and makes processors working hard.. For old laptops its important.
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oui

#88 Post by oui »

This discussion did be linked again in those thread (first answer)! This detail also continues to annoy the Puppyists and it will never stops as long nobody changes a ridiculous detail in the ISO's (or the divers woof's and distro builders)...

this shows a total disinterest of the developers for an optimized system! There is only one small problem, and the solution is so simple that the system is ridiculed by eternally dragging such an obstacle to its foot!

The only one problem is that the default value in the last dialog of the first start of Puppy frugal is set totally unlogic and wrong!

Ending the first session, the dialog ask if you want save the session and set the answer "yes" as default value...

It is totally wrong!

The logic dialog would be

«I will shutdown as you want after 3 seconds without saving, or immediately if you hit on "yes". If you want to create a save system hit now on "no" !»

And the whole spit is gone! Just turn the questioning plus a little time loop (*1 otherwise nothing else: Puppy shuts down itself friendly, also after the first start.

(*1 same problem starting Puppy! Great Puppy developers! SliTaz is 4..8 time smaller, asks also some things by start for example after some graphic mode start if you want actualize the data base of packages, but only 2..3 seconds long, and the dialog disappears USER FRIENDLY automatic!! Why those dialogs blocking the system each start if starting without save system? Absurd, really! And so much :oops: !!! Two or more one after the other...

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rufwoof
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#89 Post by rufwoof »

I do like the EasyOS reversal (compared to Puppy's) approach. All changes are stored in a folder as and when they occur, so you never run out of space (excepting finite available free disk space). Snapshots of that folder can be created as desired, a simple mksquashfs to create a squashfs image of the folder. Then you can restore any of those snapshots (deletes the save folder area, unsquashes the 'snapshot' sfs in its place).

The way I have mine set up is that it automatically restores my 'clean' snapshot at each reboot, but with the alternative bootup option to leave the prior save folder area as-is (not unsquashfs the 'clean' sfs snapshot) if so desired - so it reboots back into the prior version of changes. So if you do forget to save prior to shutdown you can just reboot back into it and then create a snapshot. 95% of the time however I just let it boot the default 'clean' version (comparable to not having saved the prior session), as once I have that clean version setup the way I like things, I have no desire to boot otherwise (I store all data out of the main OS space i.e. on a separate data partition).
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oui

#90 Post by oui »

sorry :oops: but easyOS willn't start at all... :idea:

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mikeslr
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Revision of "Downside of Removing Automatic Save"

#91 Post by mikeslr »

Because of changes to how Puppies now work, additional possibilities now available, and my better understanding since it was originally posted, I have substantially rewritten this post, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 066#974066

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Sky Aisling
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Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs

#92 Post by Sky Aisling »

Hi mikeslr,
Thank you for the tutorial on Save File. Your explanation is most helpful.

My machine is a Dell Inspiron N7010 with 6GB of RAM, 64bit, no HDD
I am running as root.
BionicBeaver-64 is running from a 2.0 flash drive.

My question concerns ZOOM meetings and the interruption of the savefile during the transmission.

During a ZOOM meeting the savefile kicks on and the screen and sound freeze for the time it takes the savefile to save.

Is there a simple way to delay the savefile activity just for a session?

Could the 30 minutes be changed to another number? like 999 then changed back after I'm done with the session?

I'm ok with the savefile saving every 30 minutes otherwise. (maybe after studying your tutorial more I'll have second thoughts about that, but, for now...)

Edit: Mikeslr, Would you prefer that I post this question on your other thread? http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 066#974066

Sky

ozsouth
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#93 Post by ozsouth »

Sky, could edit /etc/eventmanager & set RAMSAVEINTERVAL=0 (no periodic save).
Can alternatively, via the System menu, open Puppy Event Manager & change Save Session settings.

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Sky Aisling
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Remove automatic pupsave for frugal installs

#94 Post by Sky Aisling »

ozsouth,
Sky, could edit /etc/eventmanager & set RAMSAVEINTERVAL=0 (no periodic save).
Can alternatively, via the System menu, open Puppy Event Manager & change Save Session settings.
Perfect! Thank you, ozsouth.

I'm choosing the Puppy Event Manager option. :)

Sky
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