Wary HD install won't boot

[mdiemer]

mdiemer

I think it would be best to try the frugal install first, as this is the standard for Puppy - full installs can be problematic. Worry about any speed issues later. If it doesn't work, boot up with the CD again and find the menu.lst on the hard drive and post it here.
My first dedicated Puppy machine had similar specs - a Compaq Armada 3500 laptop. PII 300 with the same RAM. It had no floppy or CD, so had a (slow) CF card in an adapter. This was before Wary even existed though I think. Full install performance was actually worse, but it may have been down to the CF card.

I have considered a frugal install, but have held off due to fear of messing up Windows. Although any damage could probably be undone. I may give it a go.

[bigpup]

To answer some of your questions, I did format sdb2 to ext2, and put the boot flag there. And yes it was a full install.

I will set the boot flag to sdb1, and make a swap of 200 MB as suggested.

You say you have 2 physical hard drives.
sda
sdb

Drive sda has one partition sda1.
sda1 is flagged as boot.

sdb has 2 partitions
sdb1
sdb2
The boot flag is now on sdb1

Wary is a full install on the sdb2 partition.

Windows is on drive sda
Wary is on drive sdb

Now your problem is getting Grub4dos bootloader to boot the computer and give entries for Windows and Wary.
Grub4dos bootloader, will install to the first partition, on the drive, you tell Grub4dos config to install on.
That partition has to be flagged as boot.

When you select a drive to boot from.
The computer boots.
The computer bios looks for a partition, on that drive, flagged as boot, to find the boot loader.
It will not look on other partitions.

In the computers bios it is probably setup as sda the first boot device.
sdb the second device.
CD drive the third device.
You already say you know how to change this device selection.

If you did stuff correctly.
Wary is on sdb2 partition.
sdb1 partition is flagged as boot and Grub4dos config installed Grub4dos boot loader on sdb1.
When you boot the computer you select sdb as drive to boot from.
Grub4dos menu comes up.
You select Wary.
You do not boot to desktop?

on the screen I get when I boot the Puppy drive: It is a grub4dos screen that provides minimal bash-like editing

If Grub4dos boot loader is properly installed.
You should be seeing a menu to select from.
Do you see a menu offering selections to boot Wary?

We need to know.
You see what?
Any messages, anything?

[bigpup]

A frugal install of Wary will not do anything to Windows.
A frugall install, is all of Puppies stuff, installed inside a folder.

Now where you choose to install the Grub4dos boot loader can replace the Windows boot loader.
Windows boot loader is on drive sda.
However, Grub4dos boot loader knows how to boot Windows and usually makes a menu entry to boot Windows.

If Grub4dos boot loader is installed to drive sdb.
Windows boot loader ia on sda.
You will have to pick which drive to boot from.
The Windows boot loader will not know how to boot Wary.

[mdiemer]

Thanks, Bigpup. I would post a screenshot, but this too difficult to do on that system. But I will type what I see when I try to boot Wary:

Grub4dos v 4.4 20009-vb-20 638k 383M, Menuend: vx 483b4
[text re: minimal bash-like line editing supported, Tab Lists possible completions
etc; Escape at any time exits]
find /menu.lst, /boot/grub/menu.lst, /grub/menu.lst

grub>

When you hit escape you get 4 options, to boot, halt etc.

[mdiemer]

I downloaded and live-booted PL 412, now I can use it to see what is in boot folder on sdb2, named 'Grub.' guess what, there is nothing in it! So it is not getting installed somehow. Or never got installed in first place.

PL 412 runs great. Thinking of installing it instead of Wary. Full install, and I would pay more attention to grub installation, if I do it.

[bigpup]

Grub4dos v 4.4 20009-vb-20 638k 383M, Menuend: vx 483b4
[text re: minimal bash-like line editing supported, Tab Lists possible completions
etc; Escape at any time exits]
find /menu.lst, /boot/grub/menu.lst, /grub/menu.lst

grub>

That is a very old version of Grub4dos boot loader.

Code: Select all

find /menu.lst, /boot/grub/menu.lst, /grub/menu.lst

If that is something to select. Try that instead of escape.
You could be using a unfinished version of Wary that still has bugs.
Latest release version is Wary 5.5
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/wary-5.5/

[mdiemer]

Okay, I decided to install PL 412 on the same partition (sdb2). It went fine, I installed grub to sdb2 also. Rebooted and finally got /grub screen with boot options. This confirms that grub did not get installed for Wary installation,

However, when chose to boot linux, got following message:

Booting Linux (on /dev/sdb2)
root (hd1,1)
Error 22: no such partition

I used Gparted to change flags so sdb2 is boot partition, but got same result.

Windows also will not boot from the grub menu, but does boot when restart computer and change bios to boot sda.

[mdiemer]

Grub4dos v 4.4 20009-vb-20 638k 383M, Menuend: vx 483b4
[text re: minimal bash-like line editing supported, Tab Lists possible completions
etc; Escape at any time exits]
find /menu.lst, /boot/grub/menu.lst, /grub/menu.lst

grub>

That is a very old version of Grub4dos boot loader.

Code: Select all

find /menu.lst, /boot/grub/menu.lst, /grub/menu.lst

If that is something to select. Try that instead of escape.
You could be using a unfinished version of Wary that still has bugs.
Latest release version is Wary 5.5
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/wary-5.5/

See above post.

[mdiemer]

I did some searching, found something on Ubuntu /forum re: error 22. Suggested edit menu list like so:

(hd1,1) to (hd0,1).

I tried that, no effect, still get same error. Changing back to previous settings, will educate myself more on menu list and difference between sd and hd.

Edit: Wait, partial success! I discovered that I had changed the settings incorrectly in menu list. Made on more edit of hd1 to hdo, and booted again. This time Puppy booted! however, after going through all the setup stuff, I have a nice taskbar/panel, but no desktop picture, and when I open a program, I see nothing, just a black screen (with bottom panel).

Almost there!

[Mike Walsh]

@ mdiemer:-

I may be completely wrong about this, but it could be due to the fact that you're still not naming it correctly.

Try (hdb,0) instead.....or (hd1,0). In Linux, partitions/drives usually start at 0.

For instance:-

Drive a=0
..."......b=1
..."......c=2, and

Partition 1=0
.....".........2=1
.....".........3=2, etc.

So, sda1 would be written as (hd0,0). Sda2 would be (hd0,1).

It follows, therefore, that sdb1 would be represented as (hd1,0).....or sometimes the drive letter is used instead. Thus, (hdb,0).

Worth a shot. I'm dredging the depths of my Linux 'memory' here.....but this is basic stuff that it never hurts to be aware of. I had no end of fun trying to get SlitaZ booting a few years back, due to it using an older version of GRUB that still used the 'hd' naming convention along with numbers, rather than letters. I learnt a lot, rather quickly, in the space of just 2 or 3 days; stuff that's stuck with me..!

Let us know if that makes any difference. Just so's you know, even if you have a drive with multiple partitions & multiple OSes, you still only install the bootloader to the very first one, since this is usually where the MBR ( the Master Boot Record) happens to be. You then indicate, via Grub4DOS or GRUB2 (pick your poison) which partition to set to root and which kernel to kick into life by means of the individual boot entries.


Mike.

[mdiemer]

This is getting weirder and weirder. I rebooted, planing to change the video settings, but it booted up so fast I never got the chance. I assume it saved the settings from first boot up. I got the same thing, a bottom panel but screen above all black. Menu works fine, you can select things, but then there's nothing there to see after you do.

Also, and this is the really weird part, I realized that the Puppy that booted is Wary, not 412, which is what I had installed last night. I assumed it had overwritten Wary, but apparently not so. I can tell it's Wary because the panel is dark blue, where 412 is silvery or something like that.

Since Wary is up, I'll see if I can adjust video settings, Who knows, maybe Wary will work on this machine. But I suspect 412 would be better. I'll probably have to reinstall it.

[mostly_lurking]

I have considered a frugal install, but have held off due to fear of messing up Windows. Although any damage could probably be undone. I may give it a go.

You don't have to install it (or its bootloader) to the Windows partition. You may as well install it on the 'sdb' drive, with the bootloader also placed there, just like you did with the full install. BTW, are you able to boot Windows from your Grub or Grub4Dos menu? If not, maybe this helps...

I've done some experimenting with a virtual machine. I used a Windows 98 install on a disk image that I had lying around somewhere, and installed Puppy on another. I had the following setup:

- /dev/sda was a SATA drive with one fat32 partition (sda1, with boot flag) and Windows 98
- /dev/sdb was an IDE drive with 2 partitions - a small fat32 partition (sdb1, with boot flag), and a bigger ext2 partition (sdb2) to install Puppy on

I tried both Puppy 4.1.2 and Wary 5.1.2, which is the Puppy version I'm normally using. (I would expect other Wary versions to behave in a similar way, though). Wary has two different bootloaders you can choose from when installing the system - the legacy Grub and Grub4Dos; Puppy 4 only has Grub.

Doing a full install of Puppy 4 resulted in the error you posted (which I see you have worked out already):

Booting Linux (on /dev/sdb2)
root (hd1,1)
Error 22: no such partition

From Puppy's installer:

WARNING: If your PC has a mix of IDE and SATA hard drives, then (hd1,1)
may be wrong. GRUB numbers drives as hd<drive>,<partition> where
<drive> and <partition> numbering starts from zero. The problem is
that GRUB sees IDE drives first (hd0,), whereas if you look at Pmount
you may see it listed second (hd1,). The Uni. Installer uses the
ordering as reported by Pmount, which may be wrong for GRUB!
(EX: if an IDE drive is hd1,0 (sdb1), may need to be changed to hd0,0)

I opened the 'menu.lst' file, which was in /mnt/sdb2/boot/grub, and replaced every instance of "hd1" with "hd0" and vice versa. After that, Puppy booted... but Windows still didn't. I'm not entirely sure if that was Grub's fault, though - the Windows 98 bootloader had refused to work on this virtual machine from the moment I installed it - I only got the system running via Grub4Dos in the first place. Maybe you have more luck.

For the Wary install, I used Grub4Dos as bootloader instead of Grub (choosing /dev/sdb to install to and accepting all default settings without any further edits). The Grub4Dos files went to sdb1, which had the boot flag set. I also tried installing Puppy 4.1.2 and then booting a Wary CD to run the Grub4Dos setup to replace Puppy 4's Grub.

This worked for Puppy, but sometimes Windows didn't boot - as I found out, in these cases there were some lines missing from its entry in 'menu.lst'. Once I added the three "map" lines as seen below (I found them in the menu.lst file of a Wary install that happened to work with Windows), it booted.

Code: Select all

# Windows
# this entry searches Windows on the HDD and boot it up
title Windows\nBoot up Windows if installed
  map (hd1) (hd0)
  map (hd0) (hd1)
  map --hook
  errorcheck off
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd  /bootmgr
  chainloader /bootmgr
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd  /ntldr
  chainloader /ntldr
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd   /io.sys
  chainloader /io.sys
  errorcheck on

Also, and this is the really weird part, I realized that the Puppy that booted is Wary, not 412, which is what I had installed last night. I assumed it had overwritten Wary, but apparently not so. I can tell it's Wary because the panel is dark blue, where 412 is silvery or something like that.

Those were both full installs? And you didn't delete the files from the first one, or re-format the partition before installing the second?

I just tried that out of curiosity... I first installed Wary 5.1.2, then Puppy 4.1.2 on the same partition - it resulted in a weird abomination of a system that's part Wary, part Puppy 4. With Puppy 4's kernel, Wary's desktop and applications from both... I'm surprised it's working at all - but the sound and network seem to be broken, and quite likely many other things, too.

[mdiemer]

Thanks mostly_lurking for your extensive reply, I really appreciate it.
Good to know that I'm not losing my mind, in that you also ended up with a hybrid puppy when installing two different versions.

Before reading your post, I played around some more, and reinstalled 412 to sdb2, this time formatting it first, to hopefully get rid of previous installs. But it wouldn't boot.

I next tried a frugal install, like you said installing it to sdb not sda, so as not to endanger Windows (and incur the wrath of my wife). no boot there either.

I will now reinstall again, formatting again, and change all hd1's to hd0's and vice versa. Previously, I only changed the ones I thought were relevant. Hopefully that will make a difference.

Incidentally, the time I got it to boot, I also was able to boot Windows from Grub. Although not at first; I had to do change the menu list as above, then it booted. I nearly had it there! Only problem was it was 412/Wary pup, and only the panel was present in GUI (which was how I realized it was Wary). you could open a few things, like the calculator, but most things would try to open and then vanish immediately.

[mikeslr]

Hi again mdiemer,

Except the last paragraph, this was written before your last post --

Male cats and kidney disease. Yah, that's what took Bandit as well.

I've reviewed your posts. I still don't know HOW you are installing Puppies to the hard drive. I would guess that you burned a CD, booted Puppy via the CD and then opened "Menu>Setup>Puppy Installer". I've put that in quotes as I do not have a running version of any Puppy as old as Wary or 4.12. But my sometimes flaky memory suggest that something like the procedure I've quoted has been standard for as long as I've been using Puppies. Please confirm or correct providing details. There's an off-chance that you've been "installing" Puppies in some way we haven't taken into account, which produces effects we haven't anticipated.

But I think you and mostly_lurking have figured out your latest weird results. Since you did not delete Wary from sdb2, and PL412 does not automatically delete pre-existing files, the installation of PL412 merely wrote files to sdb2, over-writing some of Wary's files, leaving other Wary files intact, and you ended up with a combination which, surprisingly, was even somewhat functional.

The moral of the story being, on the next attempt, first run gparted to delete and re-create sdb2.

You've mentioned manually changing the boot menu. Won't PL 4.12's installer automatically write a boot menu?

mikesLr

[mdiemer]

Hi again mdiemer,

Except the last paragraph, this was written before your last post --

Male cats and kidney disease. Yah, that's what took Bandit as well.

I've reviewed your posts. I still don't know HOW you are installing Puppies to the hard drive. I would guess that you burned a CD, booted Puppy via the CD and then opened "Menu>Setup>Puppy Installer". I've put that in quotes as I do not have a running version of any Puppy as old as Wary or 4.12. But my sometimes flaky memory suggest that something like the procedure I've quoted has been standard for as long as I've been using Puppies. Please confirm or correct providing details. There's an off-chance that you've been "installing" Puppies in some way we haven't taken into account, which produces effects we haven't anticipated.

But I think you and mostly_lurking have figured out your latest weird results. Since you did not delete Wary from sdb2, and PL412 does not automatically delete pre-existing files, the installation of PL412 merely wrote files to sdb2, over-writing some of Wary's files, leaving other Wary files intact, and you ended up with a combination which, surprisingly, was even somewhat functional.

The moral of the story being, on the next attempt, first run gparted to delete and re-create sdb2.

You've mentioned manually changing the boot menu. Won't PL 4.12's installer automatically write a boot menu?

mikesLr

Since you wrote this mike, I succeeded in getting puppy 412 to boot. The mistake I was making is that I was changing sdb2 to hd0,0, when it should be hd0,1.

To answer your first question, I am installing via live CD.

now I'm going to see if Windows will boot. When I'm confident all is well, I'll post exactly what I did.

[mdiemer]

So here is where I am at now:

I installed Puppy Linux 412 to HDD sdb2 (full install).
Windows is on HDD sda. Both drives are IDE.
To Get puppy to boot, I had to edit the menu list as follows:

sdb2 is listed in grub as hd1,1. But that will not boot system. I changed it to hdo,1. That will boot system.

however, at this point, I cannot figure out how to boot Windows from the grub menu. It is listed as hd1,1. That needs to be changed, but I can't figure out to what. So for now I am switching bios to boot sda (the windows drive) by default, and if I want to boot puppy, I will change bios at boot time. This is so my wife can boot Windows.

Puppy 412 is running really well on this computer, which is a Gateway G6-300 with Pentium II 300 Mhz cpu, and 384 MB of ram. It boots very fast, and runs flawlessly. Amazing operating system.

[mostly_lurking]

however, at this point, I cannot figure out how to boot Windows from the grub menu. It is listed as hd1,1. That needs to be changed, but I can't figure out to what.

If Windows - or its own bootloader - is installed on the drive's first partition, I guess it should be 'hd1,0', since Grub's numbering of drives and partitions starts at 0, as the quote from the Puppy installer in my previous post suggests. I can't verify this, though, because I've not been able to boot Windows with Grub at all, only with Grub4Dos. (Which might be a problem with my specific setup, as I mentioned before.)

[mikeslr]

Hi mdiemer,

I agree with mostly_lurking. You have two hard drives. Booting with grub4dos on hd0,0, it sees PL412 as being located on hd0,0. Windows is on the first partition of your other hard-drive. So grub4dos (on hd0,0) would see Windows as being on hd1,0.

But does anyone know whether grub4dos can boot Windows 98?

If not, you may want to boot into windows and install "grub.exe". See this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 6983c58990. However, frankly --other than that grub.exe is a Windows program run from Windows-- it confuses me.

Just in case, I tracked down grub.exe You'll find it here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/mtyumi ... e/download
mikesLr

[mostly_lurking]

But does anyone know whether grub4dos can boot Windows 98?

Yes - at least it worked for me, see my first post. But the version of Puppy 4.1.2 that I used didn't have Grub4Dos, it used Grub, which, as far as I can tell, is also what mdiemer is using right now. I booted a Wary CD and ran the Grub4Dos config program from its 'System' menu to install Grub4Dos, then edited the 'menu.lst' to include the "map" lines that were missing from it, which appear to be necessary when the Windows system is on a different drive than the Grub4Dos bootloader.

If not, you may want to boot into windows and install "grub.exe". See this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 6983c58990. However, frankly --other than that grub.exe is a Windows program run from Windows-- it confuses me.

I'm confused, too... is grub.exe something that needs to be installed on Windows and modifies the Windows boot? In that case, I'm not sure if that's a solution here - as far as I understand it, mdiemer doesn't want to make any changes to the Windows system or its bootloader.

[mdiemer]

Thanks Mike and mostly_lurking. today's primary task, since I'm recovering from a nasty virus and it's raining anyway, will be to transcribe the Menu List in the Boot folder, so I can post it here and you can see exactly how it is configured. I cannot print it out, because I cannot configure a printer, since the computer is not connected online. So, I will hand-write it out and then type it up on my other computer. (I tried saving it to my thumb drive but can't seem to do that for some reason).

I agree, sda1/windows should read (hd1,0), since sdb2/puppy reads (hd0,1), after I changed it from (hd1,1). That is the only change in effect at this moment. I had tried editing sda1 to read (hd1,0), but it still would not boot. I am ignorant as to all the other instances of (hdx's) in the menu list, especially the mapping thing. When I post the menu list, it will be exactly as installed, except for the one change to sdb2.