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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
old cheap laptop, keep away from old 32bit processors?
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daarek5

Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun 13 May 2018, 09:15    Post subject:  old cheap laptop, keep away from old 32bit processors?  

Hello
I look for old cheap laptop for my parents for occasional use. With Puppy on board of course, mainly basic internet usage.
Should I keep away from old 32bit processors? Think about lets say next 3 years this laptop should withstand.
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1107

PostPosted: Sun 13 May 2018, 12:33    Post subject: Re: old cheap laptop, keep away from old 32bit processors?  

daarek5 wrote:
Hello
I look for old cheap laptop for my parents for occasional use. With Puppy on board of course, mainly basic internet usage.
Should I keep away from old 32bit processors? Think about lets say next 3 years this laptop should withstand.


Unless the laptop has lots of ram (perhaps 4gb or more) then a 32bit system might perform better. If the laptop has 1GB of ram or less then the 32bit system will perform better.

In short, I won't worry about if the processor was 32bit or 64bits unless I wanted to expend the ram to more then 4GB. Usually, you can expand a laptop to twice the ram that it came with.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2525
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 13 May 2018, 16:04    Post subject: What Laptops should daarek5 avoid?  

Hi daarek5,

For the most part Puppies play well with any Laptop. But my experience with a Toshiba Satellite L775 (and others with the L755) --they used an odd chipset, most Linuxes don't recognize its keyboard -- has soured me on all Toshibas.

If you have the time to research before having to plunk down your money you can find here a link to some of the Puppy User's experience with some Laptops, http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyOnLaptops. It would be helpful if fans continued to post their experience on this thread: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=656814#656814

And typing the name and model number of a potential purchase into here, https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643981050743583%3Aabvzbibgzxo&q=#gsc.tab=0 will generate a list of posts where that model was mentioned for good or ill.

I also recommend once you've found a likely candidate in your price range that you do two google-searches for the make and model, one with the added search terms "Linux problem" and the other with just the added search term "Linux". Problems aren't necessarily a complete turn off, especially if they were solved and/or occurred a couple years ago: newer operating systems may have been built to avoid them. But an absence of posts about a computer model may suggest that no one has even tried to run Linux on it.

The problem with any computer isn't its motherboard, CPU or RAM. It's the chips employed to access peripherals --keyboards, wifi, monitors, sound-cards-- even if, as on Laptops, they are builtin. Manufacturers create drivers and firmware for Windows. Someone else often has to create them for Linux.

How do your parents intend to use the Laptop? Almost certainly they'll want to access the internet. Google-Chrome and its clones (Chromium, Iron, Opera and others) no longer publish 32-bit web-browsers. Can Firefox and its clones (Seamonkey, Palemoon, and others) be far behind? Puppy Devs have figured out how to create 32-bit Web-browsers of Google-Chrome (& clones) even after their originators stopped. But how much longer they will be able to continue doing so is anyone's guess. And that 3 year window you are looking at may end up being 5. [All my computers are older than that, but I bought them used -- look for refurbished by manufacturer or trusted seller]. And AFAIK, no one has manufactured a 32-bit computer in the last 5 years, though they may have outfitted them with a 32-bit operating system. You can run a 32-bit system on a 64-bit computer, but not vice-versa. In short, its worth spending a little extra to get a 64-bit computer.

I may be mistaken as to the brand, but I think computers using the Broadcom chip in wifi adapters generally presents a problem. Google for a model's specifications.

mikesLr
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daarek5

Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon 14 May 2018, 07:06    Post subject:  

Thanks for reply and good advices.
mikeslr wrote:
And AFAIK, no one has manufactured a 32-bit computer in the last 5 years, though they may have outfitted them with a 32-bit operating system.

What? good to know. First to check may be confusing. But I think about older machines.
2G ram minimum, matt screen

Finding right laptop will be harder I see there is a mess in description second hand ads.
My idea is to find something in neighborhood and if possible check compability using live cd. Idea Have done it before with good result - my Compaq's still working, but it needs patience Crying or Very sad

Now I sure it must be 64 bit processor due of internet browser (Palemoon will be used) and possible drop support for 32 bits.
Just curious Is there somthing (like advanced web technology - hard to explain but think about wide used things) that updated 32bit web browser cant do compared to it's 64 bit edition?
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2525
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 14 May 2018, 11:45    Post subject:  

I can't think of anything which a 64-bit web-browser can do now that a 32-bit web-browser can't also do.

Considering your intended way of shopping for a PC, i'd suggest that the Puppy you burn to the Live CD be either one which can be written as a Multi-session CD, or you also bring a USB-Key for writing data. Regarding the first choice, this is the most recent thread about recent Puppies which can still utilize the Multi-session CD approach. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=113280

Which ever method you choose, while testing the computer run Menu>System>Pup-SysInfo, Click the Sys-Specs Tab and select Base Report. After the Base Report is displayed on the monitor, you can click File>Export Current Report which will open it in a Text-Editor (usually Geany) and you can save it.

Included in the Base Reports mass of information are what Network Controller (wifi), VGA compatible Controller (Graphics), Onboard Audio (Sound) chips are present.

In selecting which Puppy to burn to the CD, you may want to consider BionicPup, the latest Pup based on Ubuntu's Long-Term-Support version. It's unlikely that future releases will regress.

mikesLr
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mouldy


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 554

PostPosted: Mon 14 May 2018, 16:44    Post subject:  

The single core processors are now for most part getting really old. You might still find some single core ATOM or something on netbooks from end of last decade. Also there is the coreduo that is dual core but only 32bit. And there are some old hyperthreaded Pentium single core that can pretend they are dual core and boot 64bit albeit kinda slowly. But mostly you will find few old single core Pentium M laptops and rest will be multicore starting with Intel core2duo (yes the 2 is important as it means it supports 64bit) or AMD Turion2. Best just to do your own research and pay attention if buying that old.

Now my point being unless somebody just gives you an old single core processor laptop, they arent going to be any cheaper than the early two core laptops. On super low end, if the thing still has a screen and can boot to bios, its worth $15 to $25, well if they can find a buyer looking for cheapness over convenience. You just as well get the two core. Also pay attention to type RAM it takes. Some of older single core ones cant be upgraded over 1.5GB RAM. Those that do support 4GB RAM maybe pricey to upgrade as most from that era were 32bit XP even thought they could boot 64bit, so came with 1GB or 2GB and only had two sockets for RAM. Meaning you have to hunt down the more rare 2GB chips to max it out. 2GB is usually fine for Puppy but 4GB is nicer.

Will also mention some of low end newer laptops, especially the Celeron type with 2GB RAM soldered to the motherboard and not expandable maybe pretty cheap used. Nobody really liked win10 on them as they tended to have 16GB or 32GB eMMC drive and win10 constantly wanted to update and expand then had hissy fit when it ran out of room, though it continually would try, fail and complain. Small for win10. You do however have to deal with UEFI bios which can sometimes be a royal PITA. I strongly suggest if want to put linux on one of these you use a linux with newest linux kernel possible. I have very good luck with Slacko64 6.9.9.9 with kernel 4.9.30 on an Acer Aspire One Cloudbook circa like 2016. I tried lot variations of linux and super troublesome/slow to boot up or to shut down. But this particular beta Slacko64 works like a dream.

Oh and you might want to replace old slow hard drive on older ones with a small SSD, that speeds things up more than any memory upgrade. SSD lot more reliable than any usb thumb drive I have owned. Not much more expensive on ebay.

Dont worry too much about wifi adapter, you can get a $2 usb wifi adapter off ebay that is well supported in the Slacko64 I mention. Some of those old wifi cards are not well supported and its a pain using ndiswrapper not to mention tracking down some ancient XP driver to wrap...
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Mon 14 May 2018, 18:28    Post subject:  

speaking as someone who is sitting close to a 32bit machine, the worst thing about 32 bit laptops is that they used pata drives.

when i first used puppy, the version i liked didnt support sata. thus, i preferred pata.

the problem with pata these days is that usually the drives are quite old and wont last. you can still get new ones-- but on my 32 bit machine its got 1g of ram and i boot from usb to ram.
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 00:21    Post subject:  

Most earlyAtom CPU's (single core) can take a single 2Gb DDR2-667 stick. Same for Acer Aspire Ones and eeePC and Dell mini-9. There are some later Atoms using 2-core not susecptible to the "cop on a chip" and are immune to meltdown/spectre.

Using an older Atom CPU means very little to update due to Meltdown/spectre.

I think on eBay a no-hdd Atom runs about US$50 incl. S/H. All you need is a $10-15 32Gb USB2 stick. Tons of room.

eeePC-900a 9/2008 bios and 16Gb PATA SSD 3/2009. The CMOS battery needs a change soon.

Regards
8Geee

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Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 1540

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 12:50    Post subject: Re: 32 bit processors  

Applecontactnumber wrote:
The technology is upgrading day by day, we should also be updated with it. Really we have to keep away from the old and used 32-bit processors that old cheap laptops used to have. is also not using the old laptops. Apple contact number ( spam sales pitch removed ) is also not using old laptops.

"upgrading" is a bad choice of words. I can think of more things terrible with newer laptops than older ones. 2004-2011 is the sweet spot I think, depending on what "advancements" you hate most. I prefer ~2005 for a solid business laptop and <2012 for a netbook.
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 1107

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 13:38    Post subject: Re: 32 bit processors  

Sailor Enceladus wrote:
Applecontactnumber wrote:
The technology is upgrading day by day, we should also be updated with it. Really we have to keep away from the old and used 32-bit processors that old cheap laptops used to have. is also not using the old laptops. Apple contact number ( spam sales pitch removed ) is also not using old laptops.

"upgrading" is a bad choice of words. I can think of more things terrible with newer laptops than older ones. 2004-2011 is the sweet spot I think, depending on what "advancements" you hate most. I prefer ~2005 for a solid business laptop and <2012 for a netbook.


Is puppylinux starting to scare computer manufacurers with its ability to keep alive old machines???
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8Geee


Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 1630
Location: N.E. USA

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 16:25    Post subject:  

YES

We've been a thorn in their technological arse for years.
Atom CPU's are the bane of the industry. Bad for the emporer's new economy.

Regards
8Geee

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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Tue 15 May 2018, 21:08    Post subject: Re: 32 bit processors  

Applecontactnumber wrote:
The technology is upgrading day by day, we should also be updated with it. Really we have to keep away from the old and used 32-bit processors that old cheap laptops used to have. is also not using the old laptops. Apple contact number (edit: spam link removed) is also not using old laptops.
Spam bot's AI ia upgraded I think.
Maybe because they are not using "old laptops".
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nosystemdthanks

Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2018, 23:01    Post subject:  

the technology really is upgrading day by day though. not only did i buy three new laptops last week-- on monday, wednesday and friday-- only to find different chipset revisions in each one, but even some of my older laptops have switched from 32 to 64 bit cpus after running updates.

there is just no excuse to stay behind the times! if you buy a computer today from the year 2023, it is already obsolete... try the ones from 2025, the ones that came out the year before were overpriced and light on extras.
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daarek5

Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 06:29    Post subject:    

Thanks. Topic somewhat exceeded primary issue. Worth extension I think.
Maybe it should be titled something like "Used laptop for Puppy what to avoid rev 2018"
(Or if moderators find better words...).
To avoid ex. 32bit, DDR1 (...) is simpler becouse second hand local market is limited and vary.
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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 733
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2018, 15:46    Post subject:  

Quote:
I prefer ~2005 for a solid business laptop


best laptop I have is a IBM ThinkPad T-42...runs all kinds of Puppies solid as a rock.

I run plenty of old and really old machines most on 32 bit OS's as web servers and CCTV security systems (zoneminder)...no updates nothing....I just rebooted one to clean it's fan after 531 days of continuous up-time streaming an HD camera live 24/7 over the Internet. Thing just keeps on ticking running Tahr 6.0.5 and is an 2004-2005 era machine.
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