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puppy linux USB install [SOLVED]
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 01:56    Post subject:  

Thank you all...
I'll delve into some of the references given by other posters as I develop a better understanding of Puppy Linux. So don't be dismayed I haven't directly responded to you all. I've taken your posts onboard.

What follows is my account of installing Puppy on MY machine from a Windows 10 platform using EXCLUSIVELY Windows 10 compatible software. It's simple stuff anyone can follow if sufficiently interested. All I can say is it worked for me, your experience might be very different. There will be those who experience no problems with Puppy install from Win 10 platform and wonder what all the fuss is about and others who can't get past first-base booting issues (that was me). I also have to say that the quality of 'advice' floating around the internet on such things is mostly bloody awful, a lot is downright incorrect (Puppy forum excepted).

I have been around PC's for a long time but still feel like I know nothing, it's easy for a problem to emerge which trips me up. I also have no particular attachment to any Windows software. If there is software in Linux that will get the job done for me that's all I want. It would be nice to find a Puppy variant which supports Libre Office, NordVPN, and a decent encryption program but that will come later and I won't discuss that here. The first thing I had to do was get ANY Puppy Linux variant to install on my machine.

Please note that in all the steps which follow there are numerous ways of handling them, I can't list all the possible strategies, it would take a book - this account is simply what I did.
Also, I have to assume readers have some familiarity with basic use of Windows command console and a few other Windows utilities. Since they are looking to install Linux they probably do?


To create a bootable Puppy USB flash drive from Windows 10 platform which, on machine boot, boots directly into Puppy Linux.
============================================================================================================================

1. My hardware/software is listed in my very first post above.

2. Download a Puppy ISO - just leave it in 'c:/users/downloads' or wherever you normally keep downloads. There is no CD/DVD burning in this account (I did try burning the ISO image to disk to create a bootable CD/DVD but that also failed on my machine so I returned to booting from USB flash drive). You can find a list of Puppy variants by typing 'Puppy Linux' in any search engine - I used the one suggested by 'bigpup' xenialpup64, but now I'm sure others would work just as well.

3. Preparing the flash drive using DISKPART. (How detailed of a description should I give here?...)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW I'm only looking to end up with a single partition flash drive just to keep things simple (ref: bigpup's earlier post).
Format the entire flash drive as FAT32 don't use quick format go the whole hog. The key thing here is that the drive descriptor should end up as MBR not GPT. There is free software that can manipulate this if you need to (AOMEI, EaseUS, and probably many others). If you think a single partition is too big for your needs we'll deal with that later.

(I've dealt with formatting separately here but you could in fact roll up the formatting in the following DISKPART operations if you wanted to.)

DISKPART (replaced FDISK) is a Windows command-line utility used to manage disks/partitions/volumes on any listed storage device, it must be run in elevated administrator mode. Here is where you make your flash drive bootable. If you really don't know what you are doing, stop at this point because you can destroy your Windows installation if you screw up.

C:\WINDOWS\system32> diskpart --> the console is waiting for your commands, type 'diskpart'(no quotes). DISKPART> remains as prompt.
DISKPART>
DISKPART> list disk --> lists disks, look for your USB disk number (let's say it's 2) it will be there in the list.
DISKPART> select disk 2 --> makes diskpart focus on disk 2
DISKPART> list partition --> lists partitions on disk 2 (in this case there'll only be one) let's say it's partition 1.
DISKPART> select partition 1 --> makes diskpart focus on disk 2 partition 1
DISKPART> active --> the active command is what makes that partition an active bootable partition. *** CRUCIAL STEP ***
DISKPART> shrink xxxxMB --> shrink the partition only if you want to
DISKPART> exit --> you've finished with command console

The above commands all have a HELP function. If you want to know the meaning/syntax of any command simply use: DISKPART> help shrink (for instance)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note about 'active' command
---------------------------
If everything has gone right with previous formatting of your flash drive then the command console will accept the 'active' command.
If it does not accept the active command it will tell you why and you need to go back and reformat the drive until you've got an MBR partition.
If you started with an old flash drive on which you previously had an EFI partition installed you'll need to get rid of it the following article shows how.
https://www.nextofwindows.com/how-to-delete-efi-partition-from-usb-drive

Checking what you've done so far.
---------------------------------
Using control panel: control panel/administrative tools/computer management/storage/disk management
You'll see the layout of all drives Windows knows about.
Check your flash drive is reported as "Healthy, Active, Primary Partition" - when you see that you're home!
If you don't see the flash drive partition marked 'Active' you have failed to make it bootable.

A side note - many internet articles go on and on about Windows not making 'Removeable' devices bootable and launch into complicated ways of tricking Windows into thinking your flash drive is a fixed device. Well, ignore all that crap. Windows saw my flash drive as removeable when I checked it as above and was quite happy to make it bootable - make what you will of that....

Now you have a potentially bootable device ready to accept the Puppy Linux install modules.


Using Unetbootin to install Puppy Linux.
==========================
This is my experience of Unetbootin on my machine maybe others run differently? (I'm not trying to bag Unetbootin, just reporting what happened).

Download and run Unetbootin from the original source - I earlier used a Sourceforge copy and I'm afraid it did not do its job - for that matter neither did Unetbootin even from the original source - more on that later.

Run Unetbootin. Point Unetbootin at where you've got the ISO stored. Click OK and off she goes... or does she?

You'll see a scrolling echo of what Unetbootin is doing - it's quite detailed and very clear including reporting that it's extracting the Puppy ISO packages. Initially I trusted Unetbootin had faithfully extracted or unzipped the Puppy files and once again after many hours booted my machine with the newly minted flash drive containing the Puppy files and still nothing happened, no Puppy booting, straight to Windows 10 as normal. Bugger!

Then I took a closer look at the flash drive contents. They lined up with bigpup's screen shot of what he posted after running Unetbootin on his run but something looked a bit odd.
The contents of the flash drive showed unzipped Puppy files - I knew something was wrong.
There were 19 files/folders on the flash drive. I then used 'Express Zip' from NCH software and went through each of the folders/files on the flash drive and whenever Express Zip showed the opportunity to unzip files that's what I did. Files which had already been extracted would only allow for 'compress files' so I was pretty safe extracting what could be extracted. Why Unetbootin did not unzip all files remains a mystery to me. Anyway, after the simple unzip operations I simply shut down the machine, rebooted and up came the grub loader for Puppy followed by the usual module loading and finally the Puppy home page. DONE!

At the grub loader I chose the RAM install option just for fun and Puppy runs like a shower of #%#* - it's so fast and I'm really looking forward to seeing what's available as I plod through the next learning curve to get a proper handle on it all.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Cheers to all... if you haven't already fallen asleep.

Last edited by bushrat on Wed 25 Apr 2018, 09:19; edited 1 time in total
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foxpup


Joined: 29 Jul 2016
Posts: 577
Location: europa near northsea

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 05:54    Post subject: dd  

I'm using Puppy for just a few years; maybe 5 Wink If I may add anyway:

If I just want to boot a Puppy from usb on a uefi machine I use the (linux) dd command to put an iso of the Puppy on the usb.
No fuss with unetbootin, rufus and co, nor gparted and diskpart.
Mind: it deletes everything on the usb, it occupies just the space it needs for the iso
and the rest of the usb is unusable unless you use the fix_usb script form fatdog.
The iso also needs to be properly prepared for uefi, but that is the case for all recent Puppies which are also best for this kind of machines.
The dd command should be like this:
Code:
dd if=/path/puppy_uefi.iso of=/dev/sdc
if sdc points to the usb.
Mind: it has to be /dev/sdc and NOT /dev/sdc1

All the rest I do is the same as bigpup does.
Oh, and I also have to enable usb booting as a separate option in my bios.

Last edited by foxpup on Mon 23 Apr 2018, 04:44; edited 2 times in total
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4364
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 08:14    Post subject:  

Foxpup, any chance you can modify your post so's the rest of us don't need to scroll 3 times the width of the screen just to read the posts??! Laughing

However BIG is your monitor? Shocked

-------------------------------------------

@ bushrat:-

WELL DONE. And thanks for the detailed description of how you got things working; I'm probably correct in stating that this post ought to be linked-to from the 'Beginners' sub-forum.

bushrat wrote:
At the grub loader I chose the RAM install option just for fun and Puppy runs like a shower of #%#* - it's so fast and I'm really looking forward to seeing what's available as I plod through the next learning curve to get a proper handle on it all.


Yep, she is fast, isn't she? (I always think of Puppy as a 'she' - don't know why!) This is what so many of us like about her; even on elderly hardware, like mine (13 and 16 yrs old respectively), the OS still runs fast enough to give much more powerful machines, running newish versions of Windoze, a really good run for their money. You ask Pup to do summat, she's done it and waiting for the next command while most other machines are still thinking about it.....

bushrat wrote:
It would be nice to find a Puppy variant which supports Libre Office, NordVPN, and a decent encryption program but that will come later and I won't discuss that here.


My boy, once you start having a really good dig through the forums proper, you will not believe the sheer amount of software packages that have been compiled/built/packaged for Puppy over the years. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, really. Yes, there's the repositories of the distros each Pup is based on (more often than not either Ubuntu or Slackware), but by far the biggest percentage of packages, whether .pet or SFS, have been packaged by forum members, using Puppy's built-in tools, and usually hosted in various private 'cloud' accounts.

LibreOffice? Oh, yes.....

NordVPN? VPNs are something that different forum members have experimented with at times. I know quite a few packages have been built, but can't specifically state whether or not NordVPN has been covered. But then it would take a lifetime to trawl through every forum article there is.....every single post, since the first one back in 2005, is still available to view.

(The best place to look is the 'Additional Software (pets 'n' stuff)' forum.....and just work your way through the sections. Is NordVPN a provider, or a specific 'client'?)

I'm sure we can turn up what you want, even if it needs to be built from scratch. Several of our 'coders' really relish a challenge..! Laughing


Mike. Wink

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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 09:56    Post subject:  

@foxpup - thanks, that's a useful post I'll use it for any copies I want to make - though for replicating drives I would probably just clone the entire stick. My previous posts were aimed at making a bootable Puppy using Windows software exclusively for those who have no access to any Linux installation. One of the things that bugged me in many accounts of making a Puppy stick from Windows is the authors, without notice, slipped in some utility used only in Linux forgetting that Windows users wanting to try Linux don't have access to such things! not to mention a whole lot of articles which never even stated they were using a Linux platform to install another Linux distro. Some people....

@Mike - I'm sure Linux can handle any normal user requirements in terms of apps. I guess I've got a fair amount of work to do seeing what's out there. Maybe I'll do a survey of Linux distros to see which one suits my purposes. I'm gonna stick with Puppy because I like the architecture, but might move to Slacko if it offers more app. options?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11256
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 17:31    Post subject:  

I do not understand why Unetbootin gave you so much problems.
As I stated earlier, it worked fine for me and did exactly what it should do.

The different boot options, you may be seeing on the boot menu, do not do exactly what you may think they do.
Puppy is installed on your USB drive as a frugal install.
Best way to run Puppy.
It is a complete install. Frugal name is about how little space it uses on the drive.

A frugal install of Puppy always runs totally loaded into RAM.

Here is some info on what each of those boot options do.

menu entry
"Start xenialpup64" - normal boot.

"Start xenialpup64 - RAM only" - boot not using a save.

"Start xenialpup64 - No X" - boot and not start graphical X server. Boots to a input prompt.

"Start xenialpup64 - check filesystem" - normal boot, but does a file system check looking for errors to fix.

"Start xenialpup64 - No KMS" - disables kernel mode-setting. Some hardware does not support it well or not at all.

What is a Puppy save.
Running a Puppy frugal install.
Anything changed or added, is stored in the Puppy save.
When it normally boots. This save is loaded and provides the changes to the frugal install.
Added programs, setting changes, added data files, etc..... are stored in the save.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11256
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 17:39    Post subject:  

LibreOffice in Xenialpup64.

That program is so big it is not in Puppy, but easily installed.
menu>Document>Get LibreOffice

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 17:46    Post subject:  

Libre office is preinstalled in Fatdog 64.
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 20:11    Post subject:  

@bigpup - thanks for the rundown on boot options. Yeah, Unetbootin behaviour puzzles me too and I ran it many times all with similar results, some ISO files unzipped others not - weird or what?
As for the rest of the stuff I'll have to familiarise myself with there's a lot to learn and it all takes time because the information you need is scattered all over the place. I'll start with the manual and see how I go...

The key advice I got from you was to prepare the flash drive independently of any installer. If I'd relied solely on any of the installers none of them would have worked (as was the case in my early attempts) and like many others I'd have given up on installing Puppy on my machine. So big thanks for that.

One last thing I need to do is mark my original post [solved] not clear how to do that?

thanks to all.
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4364
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 21:17    Post subject:  

@ bushrat:-

bushrat wrote:
One last thing I need to do is mark my original post [solved] not clear how to do that?


Easy-peasy. The Puppy Forum doesn't utilise the 'Thread tools' so beloved of other fora; we're all about simplicity here.

Just go into 'Edit' for your original post, then add '[SOLVED]' to the end of the subject line. Then re-submit.

That's all there is to it. Remember, this is pretty elderly, and very heavily modified, phpBB forum software here.....hosted by a private individual, and paid for out of his own pocket. We're all used to it's little 'foibles' by now.


Mike. Wink

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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 21:42    Post subject:  

thank you Mike Walsh
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2773
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 22 Apr 2018, 23:49    Post subject: Recommended for Bookmarking in Web-browser  

Hi bushrat,

Welcome to the kennels.

Can't add much to what you've already been told. But I do recommend that you bookmark the following link in your web-browser: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=015995643981050743583%3Aabvzbibgzxo&q=#gsc.tab=0 -- too hard to memorize, and almost as hard to find Geofrey's post which first mentioned it.

It performs a 'google' search of this Forum and some (all?) other sources relating to Puppy.

For example, I used it as a starting point for the following:

I knew nothing about NordVPN, but plugging that term into the above search engine provided links to six pages on which it was mentioned: 5 in addition to the page where you mentioned it. Scanning the posts suggests that NordVPN is a provider.

Going to the NordVPN site revealed prominent downloads --I expect they are 'addons/plugins-- for Chrome and Firefox both of which are available under Xenialpup64. Follow Mike Walsh's suggestion to look in the "Additional Software" Section of the Forum. Digging deeper on the NordVPN site reveal a download pertaining to Linux>OpenVPN. OscarTalks has compiled that application, but not for Xenialpup64 or any other 64-bit Puppies, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=961522#961522. You can run as many Puppies as your drives have space for. Frugal Puppies only need their own folder. But you should also know that Xenialpup64 is binary compatible to Ubuntu Xenial Xerus. So it may be possible to access Ubuntu's repo, using Puppy Package manager and or https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=OpenVPN&searchon=names&suite=xenial&section=all and obtain all the necessary parts for that application. Or for the two other VPN clients supported by NordVPN>Linux.

mikesLr
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11256
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018, 19:49    Post subject:  

Quote:
Using Unetbootin.
Then I took a closer look at the flash drive contents. They lined up with bigpup's screen shot of what he posted after running Unetbootin on his run but something looked a bit odd.
The contents of the flash drive showed unzipped Puppy files - I knew something was wrong
.

I would like to see a picture of what Unetbootin originally put on the flash drive.

You can easily make an image to post to the forum.
Use this program to make an image.
menu>Graphic>Screeny Capture Windows and full screen
Add the image to a post as an attachment.

Use Rox file manager to show what is on the flash drive and take a picture of the Rox window.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018, 21:38    Post subject:  

not sure what a screen shot will tell you?

as a guide, the 'efi' file still has extractable items as do other files.
post-unetbootin.jpg
 Description   
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 Viewed   174 Time(s)

post-unetbootin.jpg

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bushrat

Joined: 20 Apr 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Brisbane Australia

PostPosted: Mon 23 Apr 2018, 22:20    Post subject:  

on a final note here are the contents of my, now bootable, flash drive after I fully unzipped the previous flash drive contents.

have fun...
post-unzipping post-unetbootin.jpg
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post-unzipping post-unetbootin.jpg

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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11256
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 24 Apr 2018, 19:56    Post subject:  

I do not know what exact version of Unetbootin for Windows you used.

From those images I can see the biggest reason the first Unetbootin install did not work.
Some of the names are wrong.
initrd should be initrd.gz

That should be the biggest reason it did not boot.

Notice what the boot menu entry looks for for files.
Code:
menuentry "Start xenialpup64"
    linux /vmlinuz pmedia=cd
    initrd /initrd.gz

That initrd line says to look for initrd as /initrd.gz

Maybe you got a buggy version of Unetbootin.
Bad download of Unetbbootin.
Bad install of Unetbootin.

Or something in the Windows you have will not let files be named .gz
That is a compression format not native to Windows.

Strange that using my version of Windows 10. Unetbootin for Windows worked with no problem and named all the files correctly. Confused

I got Unetbootin from here:
https://unetbootin.github.io/

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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