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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Puppy 2.15CE "Viz" - Development Ideas/Requests
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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jundis

Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007, 18:09    Post subject:  

Since this is a CE, i'll add my 2 cents. I think it would be cool to have profiles(the jwm config says it's coming soon), i share my pc with 2 others and it becomes a pain when icons on the desktop get moved around by others. Another thing is screensavers, i saw it had a screensaver option but it just goes black. The 3rd thing is a task manager shortcut. Sure you can double click on the mem. manager but sometimes something slows puppy down to a hault and i can't get to that icon. So something like Ctrl+Alt+Delete would be nice. There's my cents, i might have more though so watch out.

Peace

Jundis
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laptopnewbee

Joined: 19 Aug 2006
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007, 19:37    Post subject:  

my input:
user defined menu arrangement like rarsa asked people for input on in chat.
user selected icon sets.
user selectable cursors/pointers.
maybe a faster loading browser (don't ask me which one is faster, i really haven't reached the ability where i can compile things to test them).



btw jundis, the easy way to deal with an error in clicking the wrong posting button is to use the navigation arrow to return to the page where you clicked the button, nothing gets posted till you have clicked the submit button at the end of writing the post.

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007, 20:38    Post subject:  

Quote:
There is room for both, indeed, and I would prefer they developed side-by-side as much as possible. I don't want the 2.15CE project to lose access to the expertise of yourself, Nathan, Dougal etc.


I agree with Rarsa. Both will develop. For now 2.15 CE is already in 'Beta' on Warrens machine . . .

My pawed cast
http://tmxxine.com/sound/viz1-Feb20.mp3 Puppy Viz audio Pawedcast
. . . is already out of date . . .

Viz and V are now combined into 2.15CE

We have a project leader Warren (WhoDo)
We have an agreed direction - IceWM, FireFox, Themes, Patches and Updates.

I would suggest you go ahead and release an Alpha/Beta Warren according to your understanding . . .

If people want to remove CUPS, Open Office etc - well we can get to that . . .

Once we have something the community wants, other community members can also refine

So far now 2.15CE is gonna be 2.15CE Alpha/Beta

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Pizzasgood


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 6270
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007, 21:10    Post subject:  

My feelings are that anything in the "main" line of Puppy versions should be small, even if it's a CE. Spin-offs can be big, just not the main-line. So I'd go with the 'just make two versions' idea, one in the range of 70-90MB, and a deluxe one that's around 200MB with Gimp and OO.

They can both be made out of the same Unleashed tree. That way the deluxe edition would be the same as the normal one, but with extra apps and themes. That method also means there wouldn't be any effort dilution from getting split into two projects.

@Lobster: From what I understand, Flash 9 is too unstable. I like Nathan's idea, of using Flash 7 and offering Flash 9 as a PETget. And I highly doubt it's at beta status already. Maybe in terms of appearance, but nothing else. No rush. Lets take our time and do it right.

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Lobster
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PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007, 21:38    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood,
I agree with Small and De-Luxe. Maybe the small could have a 'De-luxe upgrade' wizard'?

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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue 20 Feb 2007, 22:42    Post subject:  

Pizzasgood wrote:
My feelings are that anything in the "main" line of Puppy versions should be small, even if it's a CE. Spin-offs can be big, just not the main-line. So I'd go with the 'just make two versions' idea, one in the range of 70-90MB, and a deluxe one that's around 200MB with Gimp and OO.

The way I'm leaning at the moment is to have 2.15CE "Mainline" as a complete version minus Open Office, and offer 2.15CE "Office" as including Open Office in a squash file (.sfs). That should keep both camps relatively happy, and allow updates to Office as these are probably due soon.

At the moment 2.15CE is using the 2.14Final core, and that will allow the Beta testers to make recommendations to the 2.15 core project. If I release that as Beta1, there will be Beta2, 3 or 4 to follow as the 2.15 Core project rolls out snapshot updates. Eventually, in my vision, Puppy 2.15 Core Final and Puppy 2.15CE Final will roll out together, some 6-8 weeks from now.

Any comments, criticisms, suggestions?
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Eyes-Only


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1046
Location: La Confederation Abenaquaise

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 00:24    Post subject:
Subject description: re: Claws
 

Hi Nathan,

Sorry to have taken so long to have gotten back to you about the email client.

About substituting Thunderbird with Claws: You'd said that the latter was fairly advanced and looked like it was going to give TBird a run for its money? (HA! And here we're talking about "Free Software"! Very Happy )

My main concern in suggesting TBird was from a business viewpoint, or small business. Of course I doubt any "small business" would be using a CE version. Wink But can this Claws handle the making of HTML-formatted email and such? I don't mean .rtf-formatted, but the type where someone like Lobster might use to make a newsletter, or someone like myself might use for artwork? (I think of Lobster because of all the great things he does re: the Wiki.)

This is just my concern. Personally I don't really care what it has for an email client. I myself use SeaMonkey so if it lacks it the first thing I'll be doing is installing it and setting it up as default. Wink My thought is about others who may be using the word processor the make nicely formatted documents but then be dismayed when they find out they have to send them as attachments rather than just copying them directly into the email for the recipient to view "as is"---something I used to do a lot of in my younger evilier days. LOL!

Hmm... I guess I covered everything. Again, sorry for taking so long. This thread sure has zoomed since yesterday! And it was great news to read, I think, about this becoming the 2.15CE! Congrats WhoDo! I couldn't picture this being in any better hands than yours!

Amicalement,

Eyes-Only
"L'Peau-Rouge"

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iscraigh

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 01:28    Post subject:  

My 2 cents

Small is puppy, fight the bloat. So my vote is 2 versions one big one small.

Icewm (just started using it and really like it.)
Firefox
updated remaster script (ntfs one)
gaim must still work with msn
icon to install java (one version had this and it was convienent.)
all the little tweaks and fixes
A really nice icon set
I get errors when trying to use an icon theme from kdelook although i do have a .theme file it would be good if we could be compatible with these themes.
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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Wadsworth, OH (occasionally home)

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 02:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
But can this Claws handle the making of HTML-formatted email and such?

No, it can't. But to be honest I don't want to encourage anyone to send html formatted email anyway. It's an ugly practice most of the time and usually when I recieve any html formatted email it is spam, actually about 99.99% of the time it is spam.
Quote:
gaim must still work with msn

Should be no problem with Firefox. The trick is, the Mozilla libraries must be in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH. So wherever Firefox gets installed, add that location into the LD_LIBRARY_PATH via an edit of /etc/profile. Or you could turn /usr/lib/mozilla into a symlink to the Firefox directory, or even install Firefox in /usr/lib/mozilla, since that particular directory is already scanned if it exists. I have tried Gaim against the Firefox versions of the libs before and had no problems, so I assume there would not be this time either.

KDE icon themes are problematic in gtk+ applications, because Gnome/gtk uses a different naming convention than KDE does. You're safer getting icon themes from gnome-look.org or xfce-look.org. This is something being addressed by the Tango project, but a complete standard will only happen when both Gnome and KDE devs are willing to implement it.

I like the idea of two isos based on the same core (people may remember I have done so myself with Grafpup). We could of course just do a standard and chubby release, like the old ChubbyPuppy in the 1.xx series, but with OpenOffice-2.xx.

I'll see about doing the cutdown OpenOffice sometime tomorrow, since that seems to be what people want. I'm not sure how small I can get it, without crippling it in some way. I think it should definately still come with at least the EN_US dictionary, not sure about things like the Gallery. Personally I'd be inclined to drop the gallery.

Whodo - is there someplace in particular you would like files uploaded, or should I put them on my own server and drop you a line?

Nathan

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iscraigh

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 276

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 03:04    Post subject:  

Thanks for the tip on the themes.

Oh and a big vote for having dhcp be automatic on bootup.


Craig
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WhoDo


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 4441
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 03:17    Post subject:  

Nathan F wrote:
Whodo - is there someplace in particular you would like files uploaded, or should I put them on my own server and drop you a line?

If you can drop them on your own server and PM me with the connection details for Gftp, I can pick them up from there.

Alternatively, I have my own directory on ftp.servage.net and there is a development sub-directory that could be used, but I'd be reluctant to do that without MU's approval, given the problems he's having hosting dotpups at servage.net - wouldn't want to cause him any more problems than he already has.

Cheers
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Nathan F


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 03:45    Post subject:  

OK, then I'll probably be in touch late tomorrow.

Nathan

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TonshA

Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 04:43    Post subject:  

Morning All!

Just checking in about the logo - I am working on it now, but won't have anything to upload until tomorrow (sorry about that, but it caught me on a busy couple of days).

To be honest, I've been playing with Pizzasgood's idea about Agent P.U.P. - but 'V' and 'Visa' should also be fairly quick to produce. Please be patient and I'll have something for you fairly quickly.

To add my tuppence to requests for 2.15/2.15CE:

1. 2 versions (one with OOo and one without) sounds like an excellent idea. I personally favour OOo, but really feel that the distro should be small and focus on stability and appearance, This will (hopefully) make the release cycle shorter. As long as there is the option to install OOo (preferably as a .sfs) this will be enough. Instructions for doing this should be included in the help file. (So maybe we could get away with just a single release??)

2. I really like WhoDo's Icewm themes, and equally like the amended IcebergX and the Vista-ish themes. They are excellent work and I think should be included in both 2.15 versions.

3. Rarsa's theme switcher idea would be a real boon to the community edition, looks and stability are the things I think we want to emphasise with this release.

After these, I've not many comments. I need to re-read Nathan's ideas about propriety codecs to make sure I've understood the point he's trying to make.

Until tomorrow...

DaveA
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Rickrandom

Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 195
Location: Bedfordshire, UK

PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 05:52    Post subject:
Subject description: 2.15CE Testing
 

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but here goes...

With the rapid pace of Puppy development, it seems quite tricky to find all the bugs in each version, even with the alpha and beta version(s). The variety of different hardware, different personal settings and then all the programs that people install means there are billions of permutations, and we can never cover them all, but perhaps we can be a bit more systematic.

Also I suspect that there are many Puppy users out there who feel they are too much of a beginner to contribute to the testing/debugging process, and thus watch and wait without trying the alphas and betas, and then some of them have trouble when the final version is released. There must be others who try a beta, find something doesn't work and assume it's their own inability, not a bug, and so say nothing.

What I wondered was whether we could at least divide the testing/debugging process into a number of categories and get volunteers to test a category that is their own particular field of interest. The categories might be:

Booting
Dial-up modems
Networking (wired)
Wireless
Installation (frugal, full)
Graphics
Widescreen
Multi-session CD/DVD
Window managers
Sound
Media players
Browsers
Email clients
Office applications
etc

It would need these people to carefully document what they did and on what hardware, so that any bugs can be reproduced. Useful by-products would be that instructions can be developed and compatibility lists improved.

Perhaps there could be one expert person who has "ownership" of the testing of each particular category. This expert would have a group of other volunteers helping who would have an interest but less expertise and would have different hardware. This expert would be able to tell the volunteers what to check and how to diagnose, e.g. telling them which commands to run when things don't work. The testing results might stay within the group until any problems are better understood, and then presented to the developers who would be better placed to implement a solution that solves the issues without introducing another. No doubt some smart people would help in several groups.

I know this may sound bureaucratic and against the Puppy ethos of one person just getting on with it rather than design by committee, but is suggested in good faith and perhaps fits with the philosophy of a CE version. The intention is of working towards Barry's goal that "Puppy will just work, no hassles".

I have to admit that I could not put myself forward as an expert, but would be a willing helper in different categories.

Sorry to have waffled on for so long.... Embarassed
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Feb 2007, 06:26    Post subject:  

Second Viz Podcast
http://tmxxine.com/sound/viz2-Feb21.mp3

first available here - along with latest news
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/CommunityEdition

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