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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Challenge > an adrive builder OR Include Synaptic or Apt
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2439
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:21    Post subject:  Challenge > an adrive builder OR Include Synaptic or Apt  

Hi All,

Frequently someone posts asking about a "barebones" Puppy, complaining about having to remove, add and remaster to fashion just the OS wanted, or desiring greater modularization.

I thought jemimah --hope she is and is doing well-- had eloquently addressed those concerns in her development of Saluki. Although Saluki provided OOTB the commonly employed applications, with two small exceptions --a text editor and one other-- all "user" applications [such as wordprocessors, web-browsers, video players] were contained in an adrv_xxx.sfs. Adrv_xxx.sfs, if found, would load at bootup. But you could deleted it, or moved it so that it wouldn't be found, and Saluki would still boot to desktop.

Built into Saluki as part of its operating system --that is, not in adrv-- was an application, custom-builder.sh, which enabled a mere user to access Saluki's extensive repository, download pets --and, I think, SFS-- and combine them all into one's personal adrv.

With some editing by Elroy, custom-builder was continued in Carolina.

On occasion, I've wondered whether custom-builder could be modified to function under more recent Puppies: Tahrpups, Xenialpups, and Slackos. The level of bash knowledge required to write --and consequently-- modify custom-builder is far beyond what I possess. But the logic of the application, I think, is substantially similar to what Lazypuppy's PaDS application uses. Except that unlike PaDS, Custom-builder directly accesses repositories and downloads "packages". And while PaDS generates an SFS, Custom-builder generates an adrv, which in essence is just an SFS under a name modern Puppies will automatically load on bootup.

Regarding accessing repositories and downloading packages, whatever Puppy you run does that via Puppy Package Manager. So that capability already exists in every Puppy and modifying Custom-builder to function under it may only involve calling that builtin routine.

However, Saluki's and Carolina's custom-builders looked exclusively to their extensive repositories of pets and SFSes. Tahrpups and Slackos are far more dependent on the repositories of Ubuntu and Slackware(derivatives) for their applications. Again, the routines of PPM provides for that. Other "decompression" routines built into every Pup provides for handling debs, tgzs and txzs as the case may be. [Edited Jan 18, 2017 to delete speculation later found to be in error].

Custom-builder includes a routine for determining whether any of the pets or SFSes the user wanted to include were missing any dependencies. But as I mentioned, Salukis and Carolinas only offered to include pets and SFSes from its repo, and those already had been tested and their dependencies identified [noted in pet specs?]. While again PPM does that to some extent, accessing LIstDD (or its routines) may be needed for Pups drawing from "alien" repos. And perhaps an additional routine to search for and download any missing packages which were found.

At any rate, the above are my thoughts regarding the construction of a custom-[adrv]--builder for current Puppies.

For anyone interested in trying his or her hand at creating such an application I've attached Elroy's modified version of custom-builder. Delete the false "zip" ending. Custom-build is an executable bash-script. I also added the suffix ".txt" to prevent it from accidentally being run.

mikesLr
Carolina-custom_builder.sh.txt.zip
Description  Adrv builder bash-script. Remove false zip. Remove txt with caution. Read last paragraph of post
zip

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Last edited by mikeslr on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 12:01; edited 3 times in total
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 1064

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2017, 13:36    Post subject:  

It is really the same thing that the apt2sfs script does in Debian Dog. You put the package names you want in, it downloads all of them and their dependencies and makes them into an sfs that you could use for an adrive or a regular sfs.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2439
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 16 Jan 2017, 12:10    Post subject: Yes, but & Perhaps a better idea for Puppies  

dancytron wrote:
It is really the same thing that the apt2sfs script does in Debian Dog. You put the package names you want in, it downloads all of them and their dependencies and makes them into an sfs that you could use for an adrive or a regular sfs.


DebianDog's package managers, apt and synaptic, are much more sophisticated than Puppy Package Manager. Consequently, the apt2sfs tool doesn't, itself, have to contain a routine to check for missing dependencies. One of the really good things about the DebianDogs.

But that suggest, perhaps, a better way to accomplish the objective of enabling a "passenger" -- to quote pelo-- to take command of the ship.

Puppy's weak point has always been the limitations of its Package Manager. As late as a week ago, I had attributed that as a necessary trade-off in order to maintain Puppy's small size. But the DebianDogs are about the same size while including apt and synaptic.

Perhaps, therefore, the best way to go about this is to figure out how to include apt and/or synaptic in Puppies. I know that can be done. Jejy69 did it in LxPup-aptget-test, https://sourceforge.net/projects/checkmatelxde/files/Lxpup_Test_Aptget/

Well, actually, I only used IIRC synaptic under Lxpup-aptget-test a few times. Those few occasions were successful. But.I didn't test its package managers extensively.. At any rate, the potential is there.

mikesLr
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2439
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 24 Jan 2017, 13:12    Post subject: A Current Puppy with Synaptic by josejp2424
Subject description: Exploring pupjibaro-jessie-B5-synaptic
 

Hi All,

Thanks to Pelo's curiosity, zagreb999's interest, the Wellminded Search and google-translate, I tracked down pupjibaro jessie synaptic by josejp2424 on the Spanish Language SubForum: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=927975#927975.

This is a 32-bit Puppy woofed from debian Jessie binaries. It includes both Puppy Package Manager and Synaptic. PPM is setup to access both Tahrpup and Xenialpup repos, among others. Synaptic accesses the debian jessie repos. It's default window-manager is Openbox with Lxpanel. It includes both rox and pcmanfm as file-managers with a menu entry to easily switch between which is to be the default. It has lxterminal --and IIRC urxvt-- consoles. Choosing which is to be default between them, and between other "User" applications, is facilitated by Puppy Default Application Chooser.

I should mention, Yo no hablo español. Sad The Puppy, however, boots-up in English. Smile

Josejp2424 classifies it as a beta release.

Zagreb999 reports that synaptic was unable to accomplish some of the installations he tried. But those seem primarily to be attempts to install other Window managers.

So far my only effort to use synaptic was to install openshot video editor. That went smoothly. Openshot functioned but reported that frei0r plugins were absent. Synaptic quickly found and installed them.

I'll explore some more when I can think of other applications I want. This is difficult as josejp2424 seems to have built pupjibaro jessie synaptic to my specifications. Perhaps flowblade video editor as it involves installing about a half-dozen dependencies.

The gimp Josejp2424 included was only at version 2.4.5 Gimp is now up to 2.8.(16?). I could find no easy way to remove 2.4.5. Remove Builtin didn't list it. So I decided to install Gimp 2.8.(7?) using PPM from Tahrpup's repo. That worked and default chooser enabled me to select it as default for several operations. 2.4.5 was sill listed and showed up on the menu, but would not run. I removed the menu entry using Menu>Setup>Menu Editor.

As I still find mtpaint useful for some quick tasks and prefer mtpaint-snapshot for taking screenshots, I installed the former from (I think) Tahrpup's repo and the snapshot module from a pet I made/stored out of (I think) 01micko's bash-script.

Although pupjibaro synaptic currently lacks Rox-App capabilities, I was able to use Shinobar's Wine-portable: Just entered its folder and clicked "register".

Similarly, the following applications I maintain as "External Program Folders" could be run simply by clicking their executables, or added to the menu by pets I built for that purpose: foxit(pdf)reader, Cool(epub)reader, and seamonkey and (firefox)light web-browsers.

Both slimjet-12-tahr.sfs (built, i think by Mike Walsh) and Oscar Talks' Vivaldi-1.5.sfs could be loaded and functioned. Also LibreOffice-5.1.6.sfs.

As I said, it's difficult for me to find a reason to employ synaptic. And I'm not sure what its limitations might be. But it is clearly possible to include it in Puppies. Pupjibaro-synaptic's ISO was only 287 Mbs.

Well worth testing and further development. Perhaps by including (modified as necessary) the many fine applications saintless and fredx181 have provided for the DebianDogs to build and manage SFSes.

Edit: Having decided that a specific thread for discussions about pupjibaro jessie synaptic might be worth while, I've started one here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=940753#940753

mikesLr

Last edited by mikeslr on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 18:06; edited 3 times in total
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backi

Joined: 27 Feb 2011
Posts: 1506
Location: GERMANY

PostPosted: Wed 25 Jan 2017, 08:21    Post subject:  

Hi mikesir !
Really fascinating idea .
This is worth in my opinion to keep this concept as an actual topic alive and bring it into the awareness of Puppy users and skilled programmers .I am not .

Quote------"It is really the same thing that the apt2sfs script does in Debian Dog. You put the package names you want in, it downloads all of them and their dependencies and makes them into an sfs that you could use for an adrive or a regular sfs."----Quote.

These type of downloading and converting downloaded Apps/Programms to sfs Modules is quite handy and save .

I find this apt2sfs in Debian Dog total useful and and is exactly what i was always looking for , because i prefer the modular use of Programs/Apps more than installing them . Keeps the main Os small and gives more stability---so i think.
I like this modular "Lego" concept .Small core Os expanded modular .

Your suggestions would lead to a "Debianising" and "Ubuntufication" of Puppys......

Debian Dog and (Ubuntu type) Xenial Dog went the other Direction......
puppyfying mini-Debians and mini-Ubuntus....very ,very clever and useful.

In my Opinion a very innovative step (the best thing since sliced Bread Smile Smile ......
Cheers !
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Wed 26 Jul 2017, 07:02    Post subject: I try to install synaptic on a precise 5.7.1  

bookmarked.
I try to install synaptic on a precise 5.7.1. Why ? because PPM does not load everything needed for gcstar, but synaptic does it with the mature LXPUP synaptic done by the young dev Jejy69, when he was working Puppies
mikeslr , your challenge is mine too. Smile I will try to stay beyond, not disturbing. Listening and learning.

Synaptic is available in the PPM. Installed.
Both Griffith GCstar not found.. Sad
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Pelo

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 12591
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Wed 26 Jul 2017, 08:55    Post subject: Installed packages from PPM
Subject description: precise 5.7.1
 

libapt-inst1.4_0.8.16|libapt-inst1.4|0.8.16||BuildingBlock|818K|pool/main/a/apt|libapt-inst1.4_0.8.16~exp12ubuntu10.27_i386.deb|+libapt-pkg4.12&ge0.8.16,+libc6&ge2.4,+libgcc1&ge4.1.1,+libstdc++6&ge4.4.0|deb package format runtime library|ubuntu|precise|
libapt-pkg4.12_0.8.16|libapt-pkg4.12|0.8.16||BuildingBlock|2971K|pool/main/a/apt|libapt-pkg4.12_0.8.16~exp12ubuntu10.27_i386.deb|+libc6&ge2.15,+libgcc1&ge4.1.1,+libstdc++6&ge4.6,+zlib1g&ge1.2.3.3.dfsg|package managment runtime library|ubuntu|precise|
libept1.4.12_1.0.6|libept1.4.12|1.0.6||BuildingBlock|354K|pool/main/libe/libept|libept1.4.12_1.0.6~exp1ubuntu1_i386.deb|+libapt-pkg4.12&ge0.8.16,+libc6&ge2.8,+libgcc1&ge4.1.1,+libstdc++6&ge4.4.0,+zlib1g&ge1.1.4|High-level library for managing Debian package information|ubuntu|precise|
libvte9_0.28.2|libvte9|0.28.2|3ubuntu2|Utility;shell|1037K|pool/main/v/vte|libvte9_0.28.2-3ubuntu2_i386.deb|+libatk1.0-0&ge1.12.4,+libc6&ge2.4,+libcairo2&ge1.2.4,+libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0&ge2.22.0,+libglib2.0-0&ge2.31.2,+libgtk2.0-0&ge2.24.0,+libpango1.0-0&ge1.22.0,+libtinfo5,+libx11-6,+libvte-common&eq0.28.2|Terminal emulator widget for GTK+ 2.0 - runtime files|ubuntu|precise|
libvte-common_0.28.2|libvte-common|0.28.2|3ubuntu2|Utility;shell|436K|pool/main/v/vte|libvte-common_0.28.2-3ubuntu2_all.deb||Terminal emulator widget for GTK+ 2.x - common files|ubuntu|precise|
libxapian22_1.2.8-1|libxapian22|1.2.8-1||BuildingBlock|4392K|pool/main/x/xapian-core|libxapian22_1.2.8-1_i386.deb|+libc6&ge2.4,+libgcc1&ge4.1.1,+libstdc++6&ge4.6,+libuuid1&ge2.16,+zlib1g&ge1.1.4|Search engine library|ubuntu|precise|
synaptic_0.75.9ubuntu1.1|synaptic|0.75.9ubuntu1.1||Setup|7598K|pool/universe/s/synaptic|synaptic_0.75.9ubuntu1.1_i386.deb|+libapt-inst1.4&ge0.8.0,+libapt-pkg4.12&ge0.8.16,+libc6&ge2.4,+libept1.4.12,+libgcc1&ge4.1.1,+libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0&ge2.22.0,+libglib2.0-0&ge2.14.0,+libgtk2.0-0&ge2.24.0,+libpango1.0-0&ge1.14.0,+libstdc++6&ge4.6,+libvte9&ge0.24.0,+libx11-6,+libxapian22,+hicolor-icon-theme|Graphical package manager|ubuntu|precise|
xaw3dg_1.5+E|xaw3dg|1.5+E|18.1ubuntu1|BuildingBlock|420K|pool/main/x/xaw3d|xaw3dg_1.5+E-18.1ubuntu1_i386.deb|+libc6&ge2.4,+libx11-6,+libxext6,+libxmu6,+libxt6|Xaw3d widget set|ubuntu|precise|
gpointing-device-settings_1.5.1|gpointing-device-settings|1.5.1|6ubuntu0.1|System|504K|pool/universe/g/gpointing-device-settings|gpointing-device-settings_1.5.1-6ubuntu0.1_i386.deb|+gconf-service,+libc6&ge2.3.6-6,+libgconf-2-4&ge2.31.1,+libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0&ge2.22.0,+libglib2.0-0&ge2.14.0,+libgpds0&ge1.5.0,+libgtk2.0-0&ge2.12.0,+gconf2&ge2.28.1-2|configuration tool for pointing devices|ubuntu|precise|
libgpds0_1.5.1|libgpds0|1.5.1|6ubuntu0.1|System|73K|pool/universe/g/gpointing-device-settings|libgpds0_1.5.1-6ubuntu0.1_i386.deb|+gconf-service,+libc6&ge2.4,+libgconf-2-4&ge2.31.1,+libglib2.0-0&ge2.24.0,+libgtk2.0-0&ge2.12.0,+libx11-6,+libxi6&ge1.2.0|library for configuration of pointing devices|ubuntu|precise|
gsynaptics_1.5.1|gsynaptics|1.5.1|6ubuntu0.1|System|28K|pool/universe/g/gpointing-device-settings|gsynaptics_1.5.1-6ubuntu0.1_i386.deb|+gpointing-device-settings|configuration tool for pointing devices transitional package|ubuntu|precise|
gpgv_1.4.11|gpgv|1.4.11|3ubuntu2.10|BuildingBlock|435K|pool/main/g/gnupg|gpgv_1.4.11-3ubuntu2.10_i386.deb|+libbz2-1.0,+libc6&ge2.4,+libreadline6&ge6.0,+zlib1g&ge1.1.4|GNU privacy guard - signature verification tool|ubuntu|precise|

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2439
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 26 Jul 2017, 11:19    Post subject:    

Congratulations, Pelo. And especially thanks for the list of deb used. I'm sure it will be of value when I explore the possibility of building synaptic for XenialPup64.

'Though, frankly, I was hoping to take a break from exploring:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjRievdnqfVAhWFdT4KHdlaBxgQyCkIKDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUPw-3e_pzqU&usg=AFQjCNFIpIvP-VTH7SUiTRGHM6nAY4XqEw

mikesLr
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2368

PostPosted: Sat 29 Jul 2017, 16:21    Post subject: Re: A Current Puppy with Synaptic by josejp2424
Subject description: Exploring pupjibaro-jessie-B5-synaptic
 

mikeslr wrote:
So far my only effort to use synaptic was to install openshot video editor. That went smoothly. Openshot functioned but reported that frei0r plugins were absent. Synaptic quickly found and installed them.

That's a common problem even in Debian proper. One of the rare incomplete dependencies. With Openshot for the full experience you also need inkscape (full version) and blender ... and where the blender version works with the Openshot version (as different versions can result in not being able to render 3D titles).

Yet another shortfall is that blender 3D titles might not use a transparent background and instead have a grey background and you have to edit the py (python) scripts to add in certain edits to the blender script(s) to correct that (haven't the link to hand, will edit if I can pin that down).
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hamoudoudou


Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1124
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2018, 01:20    Post subject:  Completely unable to understand error message Synaptic  

Completely unable to understand error message. What happens ,
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2439
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2018, 16:31    Post subject: See puppy-get  

Hi hamoudoudou,

I'm glad you posted, although I don't know why. But it reminded me to post a link to Puppy-get, mistfire's project to bring the power of apt-get to Puppies. I know you are familiar with it. But others may not be. Its thread starts here:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=970741#970741

mikesLr
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 3108
Location: holland

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2018, 16:38    Post subject: Re: Completely unable to understand error message Synaptic  

hamoudoudou wrote:
Completely unable to understand error message. What happens ,


It's because you consistently refuse to upgrade to newest Xenialdog.
(I know I've said in Xenialdog thread already, just thought it may help to repeat here)

Fred

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hamoudoudou


Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 1124
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2018, 18:11    Post subject: package downoader synaptic works in a Puppy  

i was asking for translation, the cause seems to be about english not found in locale. But the topic here is about includinq package downloader synaptic in a Puppy, what is yet done in Pupjibaro stretch, and working well. You have Just to clone the system to US puppies. Josejp2424 could help if needed, i think. His english is bad too.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5054
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2018, 04:43    Post subject: Re: Yes, but & Perhaps a better idea for Puppies  

mikeslr wrote:
DebianDog's package managers, apt and synaptic, are much more sophisticated than Puppy Package Manager......

Puppy's weak point has always been the limitations of its Package Manager.
I don't understand why the PPM is frequently excoriated, but thanks for this thread - it contains a lot of in depth experimentation and analysis that piques my interest.

Congrats Mikeslr - despite your advancing age your mind is clearly still humming
Twisted Evil

Last edited by greengeek on Tue 06 Mar 2018, 04:48; edited 1 time in total
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Tue 06 Mar 2018, 04:47    Post subject: Re: Yes, but & Perhaps a better idea for Puppies  

Shocked

oops, dup post
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