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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Other Distros
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Gordie

Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Sat 24 Feb 2018, 12:53    Post subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
Thanks. Just for the heck of it, I'm downloading the live disk of OpenBSD but I don't know whether I'll install it or not (probably not - it's been my experience that Linux distros and BSDs don't sit well together on the same hard drive).


That USED to be what I thought too but times have changed. The problem I experienced came from my lack of understanding of the different terms used to explain partitions of the hdd. Once I found the answer it is easy for me now

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Gordie

Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Sat 24 Feb 2018, 12:56    Post subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
That's interesting. I tried OpenBSD (or a live disk based on it, whose name I forget) but I found it a bit slow compared to the Linux distros I'd tried up until then. What's it like for speed now?


I find it slow. Seems like the graphics driver needs attention. Things like automount won't work no matter what I do, Only can do ext2 so is impossible for me to get Slackware and BSD to communicate with a usb thumb

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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2014

PostPosted: Sun 25 Feb 2018, 13:33    Post subject:  

Gordie wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
That's interesting. I tried OpenBSD (or a live disk based on it, whose name I forget) but I found it a bit slow compared to the Linux distros I'd tried up until then. What's it like for speed now?


I find it slow. Seems like the graphics driver needs attention. Things like automount won't work no matter what I do, Only can do ext2 so is impossible for me to get Slackware and BSD to communicate with a usb thumb


That's a shame. I think if mission-critical security is a top priority for you OpenBSD is probably a good choice, but otherwise I'm left wondering what advantages it offers over a Linux distro such as Slackware (which I suppose it most closely resembles). Also, I format my partitions with ext4 as standard so it doesn't sound like they'd sit well with OpenBSD on the same hard drive.

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2557

PostPosted: Tue 27 Feb 2018, 19:40    Post subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
I think if mission-critical security is a top priority for you OpenBSD is probably a good choice, but otherwise I'm left wondering what advantages it offers over a Linux distro

I like how its integral - kernel, userland (including X) and documentation all bound together. man pages are fantastic, and errors in that text are recorded/managed as any other 'bug'. Makes things far simpler, avoids systemD and collectively can be much better security audited. By default OBSD boot is very secure. They even tweak 3rd party programs such as firefox to be more secure by default. Package (program) installation is as easy as pkg_add xxxx

I've switched back from -current to install/use -release/stable and I'm using openup to provide all the binary patches/updates to both the base system and packages (third party programs). Nice and quick/easy to keep patched up.

The default of being secure does mean that the default setup is slower than if you tweak some of the settings. Async disk IO for instance instead of synd'd. Some graphics tweaks as well ... and speed is comparable, perhaps even better than Linux whilst still being acceptably secure for a typical desktop setup.

Of the three windows managers in the base system I find fvwm to be too configurable. Tempts you into tweaking things often. So I mostly flip between cwm and twm preferring cwm on a laptop type setup, twm for a desktop. The default configs for those aren't to most peoples taste so you do have to make changes there, but for instance cwm config is pretty simple/light, my .cwmrc for instance consists of just ...
Code:
fontname "sans-serif:pixelsize=24"
ignore xclock
borderwidth 4
color inactiveborder AntiqueWhite
color activeborder LightCoral
color selfont "#CCCCFF"
color font "#000000"
color menufg "CCCCFF"
color menubg "222222"
gap 4 0 0 0
bind-key 4-f window-fullscreen
bind-key 4-r restart
bind-key 4-q window-delete
bind-key 4-Left "mixerctl outputs.master=-12"
bind-key 4-Right "mixerctl outputs.master=+12"
bind-mouse M-1 window-resize
bind-mouse 4-2 window-lower
bind-mouse 4-1 window-move
bind-mouse S-1 window-hide
sticky yes
command "  Xterm      " 'xterm -geometry 80x24'
command "  FireFox    " "firefox-esr"
command "  Xfe        " "xfe"
command "  Xfw        " "xfw"
command "  XCalc      " "xcalc"
command "  gnumeric   " "gnumeric"
command "  mtpaint    " "mtpaint"
command "  osmo       " "osmo"
command "  Exit       " pkill cwm
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5184
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2018, 01:36    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
The default of being secure ...
How do you define "secure" though. Does this involve trusting someone else or do they give the user the same power puppy users have? What extra security do they have compared to puppy users (and who controls/manages that security?)
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2557

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2018, 04:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
"Secure by Default"

To ensure that novice users of OpenBSD do not need to become security experts overnight (a viewpoint which other vendors seem to have), we ship the operating system in a Secure by Default mode. All non-essential services are disabled. As the user/administrator becomes more familiar with the system, he will discover that he has to enable daemons and other parts of the system. During the process of learning how to enable a new service, the novice is more likely to learn of security considerations.

This is in stark contrast to the increasing number of systems that ship with NFS, mountd, web servers, and various other services enabled by default, creating instantaneous security problems for their users within minutes after their first install.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2014

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2018, 22:44    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
I think if mission-critical security is a top priority for you OpenBSD is probably a good choice, but otherwise I'm left wondering what advantages it offers over a Linux distro

I like how its integral - kernel, userland (including X) and documentation all bound together. man pages are fantastic, and errors in that text are recorded/managed as any other 'bug'. Makes things far simpler, avoids systemD and collectively can be much better security audited. By default OBSD boot is very secure. They even tweak 3rd party programs such as firefox to be more secure by default. Package (program) installation is as easy as pkg_add xxxx

I've switched back from -current to install/use -release/stable and I'm using openup to provide all the binary patches/updates to both the base system and packages (third party programs). Nice and quick/easy to keep patched up.

The default of being secure does mean that the default setup is slower than if you tweak some of the settings. Async disk IO for instance instead of synd'd. Some graphics tweaks as well ... and speed is comparable, perhaps even better than Linux whilst still being acceptably secure for a typical desktop setup.

Of the three windows managers in the base system I find fvwm to be too configurable. Tempts you into tweaking things often. So I mostly flip between cwm and twm preferring cwm on a laptop type setup, twm for a desktop. The default configs for those aren't to most peoples taste so you do have to make changes there, but for instance cwm config is pretty simple/light, my .cwmrc for instance consists of just ...
Code:
fontname "sans-serif:pixelsize=24"
ignore xclock
borderwidth 4
color inactiveborder AntiqueWhite
color activeborder LightCoral
color selfont "#CCCCFF"
color font "#000000"
color menufg "CCCCFF"
color menubg "222222"
gap 4 0 0 0
bind-key 4-f window-fullscreen
bind-key 4-r restart
bind-key 4-q window-delete
bind-key 4-Left "mixerctl outputs.master=-12"
bind-key 4-Right "mixerctl outputs.master=+12"
bind-mouse M-1 window-resize
bind-mouse 4-2 window-lower
bind-mouse 4-1 window-move
bind-mouse S-1 window-hide
sticky yes
command "  Xterm      " 'xterm -geometry 80x24'
command "  FireFox    " "firefox-esr"
command "  Xfe        " "xfe"
command "  Xfw        " "xfw"
command "  XCalc      " "xcalc"
command "  gnumeric   " "gnumeric"
command "  mtpaint    " "mtpaint"
command "  osmo       " "osmo"
command "  Exit       " pkill cwm


Good post. When I'm in Debian Stretch I use a variant of Dan Lilliehorn's ctwmrc file, here (Ive enlarged the menu fonts and added a couple more programs to mine);

https://www.ctwm.org/ctwmrc

It works well but unfortunately still looks somewhat drab (grey, grey and more grey) so I may get round to changing that soon.

Here's a Computer Science professor's page on ctwm;

https://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/laptop/ctwm/

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Gordie

Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:53    Post subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
Gordie wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
That's interesting. I tried OpenBSD (or a live disk based on it, whose name I forget) but I found it a bit slow compared to the Linux distros I'd tried up until then. What's it like for speed now?


I find it slow. Seems like the graphics driver needs attention. Things like automount won't work no matter what I do, Only can do ext2 so is impossible for me to get Slackware and BSD to communicate with a usb thumb


That's a shame. I think if mission-critical security is a top priority for you OpenBSD is probably a good choice, but otherwise I'm left wondering what advantages it offers over a Linux distro such as Slackware (which I suppose it most closely resembles). Also, I format my partitions with ext4 as standard so it doesn't sound like they'd sit well with OpenBSD on the same hard drive.


I have been curious about FreeBSD for years now. GhostBSD was a shoe-in for me since it has a live system for me to try.
So much is different from Slackware I am now a duck without water. Seems the lack of (gag) systemd is where most of the similarity is lost. Anyway, now want to find a bootloader to boot Windows 10, Puppy Linux (frugal) and GhostBSD on the same machine. Windows/Puppy on sda1 and BSD on sdb1 (separate hard drive)

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Slackware64 14.2, Alien Bob's Plasma 5
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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2557

PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar 2018, 15:10    Post subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
When I'm in Debian Stretch I use a variant of Dan Lilliehorn's ctwmrc file

cwm is good for laptops (mousepad), twm is good for desktops (mouse) IMO. twm comes as integral part of X Windows System so conceptually any Unix like system that is running X windows system will have twm.

I've configured mine so that a right click of a windows title bar shows the same main menu as when the desktop is right clicked. I also include a windows title button (ball) that when clicked raises the iconlist so all other open windows can be quickly/easily accessed/switched-to. I've set a coloured theme so that the iconlist, window titles and menu entries all have the same colour for the same program, as a form of visual aid.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2014

PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar 2018, 17:15    Post subject:  

Thanks for replying rufwoof. I think they both have their uses on the desktop.

I use twm in Slack-based distros because the configuration file doesn't get overwritten as it does in Debian (where I use ctwm). Ctwm also allows you to send a window to another desktop, which twm doesn't (because it only supports one desktop).

Your twm configuration looks good though. Mine works well but there's no denying it looks like a 1990s window manager - retro with a capital 'R'.

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rufwoof

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 2557

PostPosted: Thu 01 Mar 2018, 17:56    Post subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
Ctwm also allows you to send a window to another desktop, which twm doesn't (because it only supports one desktop).

I'm content with the one desktop (flip between maximised windows), and a single monitor. I've never been able to train one eye on one monitor the other eye on another Smile In the rare cases of when I do do side by side comparisons, 50/50 vertical split windows suffices for me.
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2014

PostPosted: Fri 02 Mar 2018, 04:41    Post subject:  

rufwoof wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:
Ctwm also allows you to send a window to another desktop, which twm doesn't (because it only supports one desktop).

I'm content with the one desktop (flip between maximised windows), and a single monitor. I've never been able to train one eye on one monitor the other eye on another Smile In the rare cases of when I do do side by side comparisons, 50/50 vertical split windows suffices for me.


Thanks for replying.

I only have the one, 21" monitor, but I like to be able to move windows off the desktop without closing them as I can in, say, Fluxbox or Openbox (or CTWM) to keep the desktop space I'm using relatively uncluttered.

*Quite often I'll have logged in as a user without system-wide admin powers (especially in a Debian-based distro which requires you to do that) and I'll be using a terminal to launch an application, especially one that needs root privileges so as to be able to access the whole file system; and once I've done that I like to be able to move the terminal elsewhere (i.e. to another desktop) so that it doesn't get "in the way."

It's also convenient if I'm listening to a music video on Youtube to be able to move the window containing the video elsewhere whilst I'm working on a document in the main window.

* Another reason for launching an application from a terminal is that if it crashes, you get a record as to why it happened which you don't get if you launch it from a menu or an icon on the desktop.

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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2014

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2018, 17:07    Post subject:  

I also installed the latest version of Slackware (32-bit), but tried in vain to build LibreOffice in it; there was always one more file the program was trying to ljnk to and which I didn't have.

Found I'd forgotten how easy distros with package management systems make it.

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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 2014

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2018, 02:43    Post subject:  

I've just downloaded the ISO of MX-17, 17.1 RC, but unfortunately I found a problem with the bootup which got stuck at "Waiting for /dev to be fully populated" ...

It might just be a bad burn, but all the same I'm waiting for my registration on the MX forums to go through (it hasn't done yet) so that I can report it.

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rockedge


Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 813
Location: Connecticut, United States

PostPosted: Wed 07 Mar 2018, 12:39    Post subject:  

Quote:
I've just downloaded the ISO of MX-17, 17.1 RC, but unfortunately I found a problem with the bootup which got stuck at "Waiting for /dev to be fully populated" ...


I just was able to get MX-17 to start and run well as a VirtualBox machine on a host machine running XenialPup64-7.5 built from Woof-CE yesterday.

newest virtualbox with kernel modules built with the kernel source 4.9.58
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