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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 Kernel & updated apps
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 11 Feb 2018, 23:52    Post subject:  Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 Kernel & updated apps  

Hi All,

Short Version: 32-bit Tahrpup 6.0.6 using the 4.1.30 Kernel. Builtin are latest versions of rox, galculator, geany, Puppies' customary applications; added Application-Finder, xnview photo manager and optional use of vicmz's Openbox + Lxpanel Window Manager, and optional use of Xfe file-manager with themes

Target computer: 1, preferably, 2 Gbs of RAM, on a computer manufactured between the years +/- 2010 and 2014 [Edit. But see P.P.S regarding Pentium M Thinkpad T42 in my post about 5 down] . With more RAM or a better than average CPU, satisfactory performance on even older computers is possible. Obviously, with higher specs, satisfactory performance on post 2014 is to be expected. But there are plenty of Puppies for those computers.

Download Link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/cc6m3wc6wtq95ln/tahr-6.0.6-k4.1.30-uefi.iso
Md5sum: 69e8b98ea5c8b3221a801e580d168496

Why this derivative?

For me, mostly curiosity and a slight need. The slight need is a six year old netbook with 2 Gbs of RAM and a middle-grade CPU. Nothing which musher0's xenialPup-7.0.6 32-bits with kernel 4.1, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=971619#971619 couldn't handle well. Indeed, the computer is sufficiently powerful to run any 64 bit Puppy if it had to, albeit with some loss of responsiveness. But why drive a truck when a sport car is available?

Musher0 created the above Xenialpup after discovering that Xenialpup, using the 4.1.30 kernel, rather than the “stock” 4.9.xx. kernel ran much quicker on “lower-spec” computers. Then s243a posted that Xenialpup appeared to require slightly greater resources than Tahrpup to run the equivalent applications. And the Meltdown and Spectre bugs were discovered. Tahrpup's 'stock' kernel is 3.14 which –unlike the 4.1 kernel-- for linux.org was well beyond its End of Life, and not scheduled for patching against them.

Full disclosure. The 4.1.30 kernel used in this Tahrpup has not been patched and may not be the same as that used in musher0's xenialpup. It was downloaded from ally's archive.org, and –as far as I can tell-- may have been compiled by wildman. Hopefully someone will publish a 'patched and puppyfied' 4.1.30 or 3.20 kernel. I have little confidence in any kernel I compile –my first foray into compiling-- as accomplishing anything beyond inadvertently making bricks. However, other than being patched against Meltdown and Spectres, how an operating system will run under one variation of the 4.1 kernel than a different version of that kernel is unlikely to be significant*. And I wanted to see how well Tahrpup operated. If anything, IMHO, Tahrpup ran better under it than under the 3.14 kernel. But, your experience may differ. And remember, NEWER KERNELS MAY NOT INCLUDE THE DRIVERS FOR YOUR OLDER PERIPHERALS.

[* Unlikely, but possible. I am unaware of reports of problems with the .30 (or later) build to the 4.1 kernel. But there were several reports of problems with the prior 4.1.11 build. It is to expected that incremental changes will include solutions to discovered problems. But any change also includes the potential for introducing new problems].

Being satisfied with the effect of the kernel change, I then checked whether applications I can run under xenialpup would work. With a couple of exceptions, they did. None of the exceptions were web-browsers or those I often run. So I fleshed it out with the light-weight openbox + lxpanel by vicmz I prefer to jwm, and a light-weight dual-pane file-manager I sometimes use.

666philb had recently updated security and some of the applications. But I wondered if since 666philb's update new versions of Puppy's 'standards' were available. These standards are the applications radky, rcrsn51, and zigbert publish without fanfare that enable Puppies to accomplish tasks that on other operating systems require applications demanding much more resources. Systematically working my way down the menu, then checking if a newer version existed, I found that radky, rcrsn51 and zigbert have been busy. But I also found a couple applications by others which were newer:
rufwoof's galculator 2.14; Oscartalk's geany 1.31; and watchdog's pupadblocker. Having only sufficient knowledge to do damage, I neither reviewed printing, nor changed anything in the Network SubMenu except where an application's author's post suggested the app was 'no-arch'.

Quirks: I didn't find the Tashbar widget for wifi under openbox aesthetically pleasing. So added netmon_wce by 01micko. As far as I can tell, it doesn't work until a SaveFile/Folder is created and its desktop file symlinked to /root/Startup. Don't do that if you prefer JWM, which already has a similar widget.

As a result of the rox upgrade, when copying/moving files, rox, finding a file with the identical name in the destination folder, will always ask for confirmation of an overwrite. It does not apply the 'automatic if newer' concept. I suggest first selecting and deleting all such files you expect to replace.

For the curious: Shinobar's Remaster Express easily remastered 666philb's original Tahrpup 6.0.6. As Remaster Express was published before uefi came on the scene, the resulting ISO was mounted, its filed copied to a folder, and missing uefi files, found in the original ISO, also copied there. Dir2iso generated the final product.

Future Support: Don't expect any beyond changing kernel if and when a kernel fixed against Meltdown and Spectres become available.

Keeping it light while fleshing it out: As they require little RAM when not opened, use portable applications such as portable-wine and portable-gimp, SFSes, AppImages and applications which can be run from folders. As the necessary qt frame-work (needed for some of the following) is included, these applications run on my system: Blender 2.79, cool-reader, foxitreader, fredx181's firefox 58, Masterpdfeditor 3.6.00, peazip 3.3, and SuperFlexible File Synchronizer 5.71. And remember, if you're accessing websites, such as this Forum, which are not “graphic intensive”, IMHO Opera 12.16 still runs lighter than pretty much anything else.

As always, use at your own risk.

mikesLr

Last edited by mikeslr on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 18:59; edited 2 times in total
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ally


Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 1816
Location: lincoln, uk

PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb 2018, 00:37    Post subject:  

mirrored here: http://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Tahrpup

Smile
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Mon 12 Feb 2018, 00:45    Post subject: Thanks ally  

Thanks ally.

mikesLr
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belham2

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1517

PostPosted: Tue 13 Feb 2018, 04:19    Post subject:  

Hi Mike,

Thanks for this. I've a 2011 Atom HP mini Netbook, 2GB maxed out RAM, and have been using x-tahr 2.0 (with latest Palemoon 27.7.2) on it. Everything runs great, except I've been lazy and keep telling myself to update all the existing other programs & stuff. Well, laziness kept winning out. But now you've went and did it all---mucho gracias. Wink

Will get it downloaded tonight and/or tomorrow and give some feedback. The tahr 6.0 stuff, as I've said on here before, is still the battleship of the entire Puppy Army (in my opinion). it is rock-solid, not one problem ever appears (on any of my machines, for that matter) & just runs like crazy despite what I throw at it and/or do to it.

Thanks again! Very Happy
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charlie6


Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 1199
Location: Saint-Gérard / Walloon part of Belgium

PostPosted: Tue 13 Feb 2018, 05:37    Post subject:  

Hi Mike,
lot of thanks for your time spent in this Tahr-6.0.6 Smile
Get a try now on a rather older PC than the ones mentioned in your first post (see shot below attached); and for the reason that one of my favourite apps segfaults on later ubuntu/debian-flavoured distros than Tahr... Confused
best regards
Charlie
PC_config.png
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Tue 13 Feb 2018, 11:24    Post subject:  

Hi belham2,

As an alternative, I posted a link to all the application software I included here:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=982927#982927. Of course, I know that you know remastering results in a smaller footprint than updating.

Hi Charlie,

Let us know how well it runs. I was guessing about requirements, but think RAM is the most important and your computer has sufficient. You've reminded me that I still have a computer with lower specs I could have tested it on: a Thinkpad T42 (circa 2004) with 1.5 Gb RAM. My cat knocked it off a table. It survived but the motherboard is slightly warped. Sound is shot. So it sits on a shelf. It has a Pentium M CPU. I'll have to dust it off and find out if it can handle an OS 10 years and a kernel 14 years its junior.


mikesLr

P.S. Having finished my 1st cup of coffee while responding, I broke off to have breakfast. Like belham2, I don't usually update functional software (except Web-browsers), But this was different. I learned early on from an uncle who sold used cars that a cheap paint job and a good wax job can distract a potential customer away from a lot of mechanical flaws. I only wish American voters realized that the counter strategy is to kick the tires, look under the hood and insist on a test drive. And that regardless of what political color a candidate has painted himself as.

P.P.S. On the Thinkpad mentioned above, after adding forcepae to kernel line -- e.g.

kernel /tahr/vmlinuz pmedia=ataflash psubdir=tahr forcepae pfix=fsck
---

it booted to desktop and, surprisingly, ran responsively. PupsysInfo showed only 83 Mbs of RAM actually being used immediately after bootup. But Tahrpup does not have the drivers needed for the Thinkpad's builtin wifi. The Thinkpad only has two USB-ports, one needed for the mouse, and with sound broken I won't explore its potential further. Sidenote, the last OS I had run on it was Carolina Vanguard.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Feb 2018, 21:13    Post subject: Changing Icon Themes running Openbox  

Hi All,

As I mentioned in the first post, i rather like vimcz' openbox with Lxpanel. I was running this puppy using it when I decided to change the icon them. After installing one I liked I looked on the menu for a way to switch into it. There wasn't one. After some hunting, I figured out that /usr/share/application/icon_switcher.desktop contains this argument:

NoDisplay=true

perfectly proper if your using JWM window manager as radky's superb JWMDesk has a section which handles icon switching --why clog the Menu with unnecessary entries? But openbox doesn't. So, if using openbox, either change the line to read "NoDisplay=false" or delete it.

mikesLr
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hamoudoudou


Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 866
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Fri 23 Feb 2018, 04:39    Post subject: As the necessary qt frame-work  

As the necessary qt frame-work (needed for some of the following) is included... Tahrpup and Xenialpup included Qt should run all Qt apps. Peebee has removed QT and included FFmpeg for Artfulpup. .. Why not to include both of them ?
Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 Kernel & updated apps : download added to Makagiga, my Qt Todolist.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 23 Feb 2018, 10:27    Post subject:  

Hi hamoudoudou,

IIRC, 666philb had already included ffmpeg in the Tahrpup 6.0.6 I used as the base for remastering and I checked for its presence before updating ffconvert. At any rate, the ffmpeg is present. It can be found at /usr/bin/ffmpeg.

mikesLr
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hamoudoudou


Joined: 24 Jul 2014
Posts: 866
Location: rabat

PostPosted: Wed 28 Feb 2018, 00:00    Post subject: francophones informés  

francophones informés
Guayadeque from Quickpet : no trouble
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3699
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sun 04 Mar 2018, 07:56    Post subject:  

Hiya, Mike.

I installed my own Tahr 606 around 3-4 months ago; a long-overdue 'upgrade' for the aging 605, which I'd had ever since first release as Tahrpup 6.0 CE in November '14, and updated through the Service Packs to 605 status.

Came across this thread last night. I'd been wanting to do a kernel update, but, as always, wasn't sure which one to go for. I thought if k4.1.30 works for y'all in Tahrpup, it'll do for me, too. So I grabbed the 4.1.30 'huge-kernel' from Ally's archives at archive.org, and performed the necessary 'micro-surgery' this morning.....and am pleased to report total success.

(I performed a back-up immediately before trying this out, but it proved unnecessary. Now I need to re-do it with the new kernel.... (*hee, hee...*))

Of course, once you've done this a couple of times (especially in these newer Pups) it becomes a walk in the park. But I'm still grateful for jrb's thread on doing kernel swaps, I must admit.....and Ally archiving 'generic' kernel packages helps a lot.

And I must agree with Master Belham about Tahrpup in general. It was my first, 'proper' Puppy that just worked on the old Dell lappie, OOTB. And, like him, it's always survived absolutely everything I've ever thrown at it...

One query, mate....if you can? I've tracked down the kernel-sources for this one.....but do I use the existing devx, or do I need to use Xenial's? (I'm running the earlier 7.0.8.1 'beta'; still works fine, though.)

Hardware's all working as it should, so.....job's a 'good'un'. Thanks for the inspiration!


Mike. Wink

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 04 Mar 2018, 12:13    Post subject:  

Mike Walsh wrote:


One query, mate....if you can? I've tracked down the kernel-sources for this one.....but do I use the existing devx, or do I need to use Xenial's?

Mike. Wink


You know, Mike, yesterday I stumbled upon the answer to that while searching for something else. Smile But as that wasn't the information I was looking for, I didn't make a note of it, and it's already become fuzzy. Crying or Very sad

Best guess. You use the kernel-sources consistent with the kernel. IIRC, point variations aren't significant, e.g. the kernel source for 4.1.0 or 4.1.15 could be used with 4.1.30 if necessary. But if you used the huge-4.1.30-xenial_PAE.tar.bz2 from ally's archive, you'll also find kernel_sources-4.1.30-xenial_PAE.sfs there. http://archive.org/download/Puppy_Linux_Kernels

As I'm guessing, it's probably best to ask on the User's Section.

mikesLr
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 971
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 05 Mar 2018, 01:08    Post subject:  

I am looking for an update from my Lucid 5.2.8.7, but I have read that some later puppies cannot be run as live multisession CD/DVD.
What is the situation in that regard, with this Tahrpup?

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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2407
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 09 Mar 2018, 20:41    Post subject: Missing Drivers? and Running Multisession DVD?  

Sorry tallboy, I don't have the foggiest idea of whether it can, or has any problems when, run as a multi-session CD/DVD. I've never run any Puppy that way, but could find no complaints by anyone regarding any Tahrpup's ability to do so.

paulh177 advised on the xenialPup-7.0.6 32-bits with kernel 4.1 thread that he had obtained http://augras.eu/puppy_linux/musher0/xenialPup-706-k41/distro/xenial-7.0.6.iso which did not include a driver for Atheros 242x/542x wifi. Further examination revealed that those drivers were included in musher0's build, but that musher0 had used this kernel. http://augras.eu/puppy_linux/musher0/xenialPup-706-k41/distro/AutreNoyau/ALTxenialPup706-PAEkrnl+zdrv.zip

In remastering Tahrpup 6.0.6 I did not use that kernel. If this Tahrpup 6.0.6 with the 4.1.30 Kernel does not include the drivers required by your system, I recommend that you change kernels to the above. Doing that is an easy process. There are plenty of posts which explain how, and a pet if you don't care to do so manually. I've never had a issue with any application in a SaveFile in doing a Kernel-switch.

I'm not inclined to publish a revision of this Puppy with a different 4.1.30 Kernel unless it includes fixes for meltdown and spectre. If anything, depending on how well they work on older hardware, I'd be interested in rebuilding using either the 3.16 or 4.4 kernels for reasons that should be obvious from this post. https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html. As 8Geee has reported, "It seems that the 4-series kernels have dropped support for the ath5k/9k and the ath ethernet", my preference would be to use the 3.16 kernel since the objective of this Puppy is to provide an operating system for "older" computers.

mikesLr
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 3699
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2018, 11:08    Post subject:  

Hiya, Mike.

mikeslr wrote:
"As 8Geee has reported, "It seems that the 4-series kernels have dropped support for the ath5k/9k and the ath ethernet", my preference would be to use the 3.16 kernel since the objective of this Puppy is to provide an operating system for "older" computers."


See, I have a wee problem with that statement.

The old Dell lappie uses a NetGear PCMCIA Cardbus wireless adapter. It uses the venerable 'ath5k' driver.

Amongst others, I run Xenialpup 7.0.8.1 with the 4.9.13 kernel on the Dell. And whadd'ya know? The NetGear works fine.

No problems at all.....


Mike. Wink

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