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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Why use Ext 3 and not Ext 4 format?
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11257
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Tue 30 Jan 2018, 11:36    Post subject:  Why use Ext 3 and not Ext 4 format?  

I am not totally convinced that ext 4 is totally bug free.
Ext 4 bug report.
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&component=ext4&product=File%20System
Bug report for ext 3
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=ASSIGNED&component=ext3&product=File%20System

Ext 3 - 7 bugs.
Ext4 - 74 bugs.

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april

Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 1241
Location: Green Island baby!

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 17:28    Post subject:  

Gotta say here that since switching to exclusive Ext4 I have not had a fail. I was always getting lost nodes in ext2.

I picked a random issue and looked at that. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=194567 and it appeared to be related to a huge file system of a size I would never get near.

So I'd suggest you would need to analyse each issue to see what the real problems turn out to be , but I;ll leave that to you bigpup .
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2773
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 18:24    Post subject:  

https://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/05/ext2-ext3-ext4/

For those of us who occasionally explore older Puppies --and especially those who can only use them-- Puppies whose kernel's predate 2.6.19 can't be run from a Linux Ext4 partition.

I don't have a drive larger than 32 Terabytes, the limit which Linux Ext 3 can handle.

Although I didn't find any information about it --I didn't do an exhaustive search-- I have a sneaking suspicion that in order to control more hardware Linux Ext4 will use more hard-drive space and more computing resources (CPU and RAM) for itself than Ext3. It might not be much. But unless I have a need to control over 32 Terabytes, why take the chance of 'wasting' the computing resources I do have?

mikesLr
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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 12964
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jan 2018, 23:21    Post subject:  

Well... why use ext3 when you can use ext2? It leaves more room on the partition.
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drunkjedi


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 897

PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb 2018, 00:04    Post subject:  

Ext2 shows 3 reported bugs.
Btrfs shows 200....
Fat/vfat shows 3, ntfs is not in the list...

UDF shows 4, I remember a discussion about using a filesystem like udf which can be accessed from win and Linux both.

By the way, squashfs shows zero reported bugs....
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11257
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb 2018, 11:56    Post subject:  

musher0 wrote:
Well... why use ext3 when you can use ext2? It leaves more room on the partition.

The biggest thing bad about ext 2 is it can get corrupted over time or is easier to corrupt.

However, if you have the pfix=fsck as an option in the boot menu entry kernel line. That seems to fix the corruption problem.
It does a file system check each time you boot and corrects any errors it finds.
Code:
kernel /xenialpup6475uefi/vmlinuz   psubdir=xenialpup6475uefi pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck

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musher0

Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Thu 01 Feb 2018, 12:43    Post subject:  

You said it!
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 1570
Location: The other Mr. 305

PostPosted: Fri 02 Feb 2018, 00:37    Post subject:  

In using Quirky, I use vfat and f2fs as the defaults. I've had very little issue with either; though I usually don't keep them around more than a year before overwriting with a new version of things.

I never really had a problem with ext2 and never used ext 3 or ext 4. As Mike stated and as I also recall, the ext3 and ext4 were not working in some of the earlier puppies I tried; so I basically took them off of my to use list.
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amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2641

PostPosted: Fri 02 Feb 2018, 15:44    Post subject:  

I still use ext3 almost exclusively -I like nice and stable file systems.
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slowride


Joined: 23 Feb 2018
Posts: 22
Location: 8th Circle of Hell (east TN)

PostPosted: Thu 08 Mar 2018, 22:00    Post subject: ntfs - in case anyone needs 2 know  

How I overlooked such fundamental basics for DECADES is shamefully embarassing. In your exploration of bugs vs. benefit I did note "ntfs missing"

How in 30 entire years of this, had I not noticed so much as a "HOAX" (anyone recall the y2k bug?) about an ntfs bug... What the STFU

Should anyone have curiosity about ntfs, or anything m$ related for that matter.

To my (almost regrettable) knowlege, there exist ONLY TWO (if there are more, please fill me in. MSDN or m$ do NOT pass my integrity check) trustworthy sources: Leo and GRC.

Check BOTH, compare, contrast. Neither takes precedence. More information's all over the place, useful to varying degrees. If you feel uncertain and need to use something you've discovered elsewhere, first look it up @ both of those places above.

Recent personal experience indicates ntfs to be downright fragile compared to ext4.

2 seperate, 300 gig drives, both over 2 years old, each partitioned like so:

/dev/sda1 == arch (ext4) 50G
/dev/sda2 == ST0 (ntfs) 200G
/dev/sda3 == stuf (ext4) 32G
/dev/sda4 == SWAP 6G

both in the same 3Ghz CPU, 4Gig RAM box.

on BOTH aging drives, the ntfs started failing first.

Locally archived files won't open. Jpgs scrambling, pdfs ditto -- the usual.

Scrambled like a cat on a hot tin roof to get everything off the first "failing ntfs" I found maybe 75% survived of almost full 200 gig .

The 2nd drive was added in haste -- faced with 25% data loss, QUICK! Get my system onto something ELSE! (ooooops)

With little effort I'd cloned everything off the ext4 partitions onto the "new drive" and was running right along, no problem, other than a bit noisy for my liking....

note: NOTHING was lost from the ext4 partions

Ya get one guess which one ultimately and utterly failed. The only indication before said failure was the exact same "hinky" file scrambling on the (cough) "new" /dev/sda2=ntfs....

Leading me to discover the Distro I'd been running had been "upgraded" (where's the "tag" for AIRQU0TES?) And now your puppy's trying to teach old elder-tard here when it "wants out"

In spite of elder-n00b, with puppy on the thumb drive, about 80% of the data from the ext4 partitions was retieved before the 5th "freezer trick" failed.

80% of >= 60 Gigs. Had the bearings held up I'd wager it would have been even more. "ALL" = impossible. When the MBR evaporates and none of the usual measures can bring it back, I was surprised to get ANY...

How it was the file table survived the attempts to revive the MBR escapes me. I'm guessing this means I should more fully acquaint my self with "journaling".
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Mike Walsh


Joined: 28 Jun 2014
Posts: 4365
Location: King's Lynn, UK.

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2018, 07:45    Post subject:  

@slowride:-

slowride wrote:
How it was the file table survived the attempts to revive the MBR escapes me. I'm guessing this means I should more fully acquaint my self with "journaling".


This is why you'll never catch me using ext2. No journalling.....which makes file-corruption recovery so much easier.

Since moving to Pup, a few years ago, I quickly discovered (like so many others before me), that ext3 just seems to 'work' better with Pup than ext4. Don't ask me why, but personal experience has indicated this to be the case.

Since switching to ext3, and always running the "pfix=fsck" kernel-line parameter, I've not had one single 'fail'.


Mike. Wink

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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 3281
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Sat 10 Mar 2018, 08:45    Post subject:  

May I just point out that the Y2K bug was NOT a hoax.
There were an awful lot of people that spent an awful lot of time going through code and fixing it so that it would NOT happen.
I know that I must have checked a couple of thousand programs, and I wasn't the only one in that company doing so.
The fact that there wasn't a huge problem is one of the biggest success stories of the computing industry.

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slowride


Joined: 23 Feb 2018
Posts: 22
Location: 8th Circle of Hell (east TN)

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2018, 23:11    Post subject:  My bad  

Burn_IT wrote:
May I just point out that the Y2K bug was NOT a hoax.


Noted, and thank you.

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ozsouth

Joined: 01 Jan 2010
Posts: 392
Location: S.E Australia

PostPosted: Mon 12 Mar 2018, 02:52    Post subject: My tests  

Did 3 tests - formatted a 60gb partition as ext2, ext3, ext4. Between each format, I untar-ed a folder with 4 large & about 100 small files (1.2gb), unmounted, then ran fsck -f. Results:- ext2 0.1% non-contiguous; ext3 22.7%, ext4 0.4%. Don't fancy ext3 on that basis.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 11257
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Mon 12 Mar 2018, 03:30    Post subject:  

Quote:
formatted a 60gb partition as ext2, ext3, ext4.

Did you change the format in this order?
Quote:
non-contiguous; ext3 22.7%

This seems like a very high reading for a fresh format.
No logical reason to do that much non-contiguous file placement if there is nothing already on the partition.

I have never seen a reading that high with ext3.

Here is my test results on a fresh format ext3 partition.
Code:
/dev/sdd2: 475/321280 files (0.6% non-contiguous), 886354/1283840 blocks


I used more directories and files than you did.

A little more details:
Code:
3 non-contiguous files (0.6%)
450 regular files
16 directories


Wonder what info this would provide on your ext 3 partition Idea
Code:
e2fsck -f -y -v -C 0

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