just discovered that if you click on the link it opens gxine and plays
DC
"if you don't go Linux you're dumb" So where do I learn
"if you don't go Linux you're dumb" So where do I learn
Thanks again DC.
Your guidance worked a treat but the best I can get so far is a couple of minutes before everything stops.
Will have to look further into this one
Ian
Your guidance worked a treat but the best I can get so far is a couple of minutes before everything stops.
Will have to look further into this one
Ian
Re: "if you don't go Linux you're dumb" So where do I learn
I have had exactly the same problem (this thread) and couldn't find a gxine solution.Scoticus wrote:the best I can get so far is a couple of minutes before everything stops.
So I installed the mplayer dotpup, and that works ok.
So, perhaps try that Ian?
paul
I currently use VLC and it wasn't letting me do anything with BBC radio. That's why I didn't reply with an answer, I didn't have one. Sorry about that. I'm glad someone else had an answer for you.
Be brave that God may help thee, speak the truth even if it leads to death, and safeguard the helpless. - A knight's oath
"if you don't go Linux you're dumb" So where do I learn
paulh177
thanks for the link. Will look at this further.
DC : I suffered exactly the same as Paulh
Sir Duncan once again thanks. It would appear with Linux that there is often a belt, braces and a piece of string available and it is knowing which works best for the individual. Will go back and scratch the wood
Once again many thanks to all
Ian
thanks for the link. Will look at this further.
DC : I suffered exactly the same as Paulh
Sir Duncan once again thanks. It would appear with Linux that there is often a belt, braces and a piece of string available and it is knowing which works best for the individual. Will go back and scratch the wood
Once again many thanks to all
Ian
Hi Ian and paulh177,
Ian for some reason I thought you were loosing your internet connection and not the streaming radio
I listen to the radio differently so did not realise the problem. Anyway had a trawl in google and the xine web site but can not find anything relevant.
There was one comment about the BBC putting out bad format streaming. But I would not know how to check that.
I had a thought maybe its just a Real format problem.
So I'm trying asx format ( a windows format
)
So far 25 mins listening to the football on five live with no problems.
Then I tried Radio 4,1 and 2 they crashe gxine with a Segmentation error.
Looking at Five live its a low bit rate for the football. Maybe that makes a difference?
If you want to try them here are the URL's for the BBC. none for Radio Scotland. And some you can not listen to outside of the UK. You need to open them in gxine
Five Live
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/live/live.asx
Radio 1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/wm_asx/aod/radio1.asx
Radio 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/wm_asx/aod/radio2_hi.asx
Radio 3
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/wm_asx/aod/radio3_hi.asx
Radio 4
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/wm_asx/aod/radio4.asx
all for now
DC
Ian for some reason I thought you were loosing your internet connection and not the streaming radio
I listen to the radio differently so did not realise the problem. Anyway had a trawl in google and the xine web site but can not find anything relevant.
There was one comment about the BBC putting out bad format streaming. But I would not know how to check that.
I had a thought maybe its just a Real format problem.
So I'm trying asx format ( a windows format
)So far 25 mins listening to the football on five live with no problems.
Then I tried Radio 4,1 and 2 they crashe gxine with a Segmentation error.
Looking at Five live its a low bit rate for the football. Maybe that makes a difference?
If you want to try them here are the URL's for the BBC. none for Radio Scotland. And some you can not listen to outside of the UK. You need to open them in gxine
Five Live
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/live/live.asx
Radio 1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/wm_asx/aod/radio1.asx
Radio 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/wm_asx/aod/radio2_hi.asx
Radio 3
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/wm_asx/aod/radio3_hi.asx
Radio 4
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/wm_asx/aod/radio4.asx
all for now
DC
a little bit of knowledge and I'm dangerous
Not hearing what Scoticus is saying
Catmandru seems like a smart guy. What he has written makes a lot of sense--to me anyway.
Like Scoticus, I am new to puppy and in general to linux. I briefly tried out red hat a few years back, but got nowhere fast at warp factor 10 for the same reason that Scoticus and I are having problems dealing with the change to puppy.
I recently asked a question and combined it with a little venting (as in a criticism of the same nature as Scoticus'). A few people very promptly answered the specific question and I discovered the syntax problem pointed out by the reply and a few others in the process of correcting it. This help was offered despite the high probability that my comments may have been taken to be very negative. I assure everyone that this is not the case, regardless of how it may appear.
However, nobody addressed the larger question about how to get started in linux and the recurring difficulty in reaching a level of understanding between those who know and those who do not. As long as people like us do not find some systematic way in which to approach linux, we will only create a nuisance for ourselves and others and we will be unable to progress and eventually contribute.
Not knowing a lot about puppy or linux does not mean to say that we are stupid. Neither does it mean that we are unwilling to struggle with the need to learn, and neither does it mean that we are amongst the ranks of the cult of Bill Gates. What we are is a little disoriented and we are begging for someone to point the way.
I mentioned in my other post that linux books I have looked at are of two basic genre. There are the linux for dummies genre books which persist for hundreds of pages in inane generalities and which leave you virtually none the wiser, and there are the linux for those who already know books which do not even appear to be written in English. Is there a book about linux which teaches you how to work with the command line, yet which is not simply comprised of an alphabetical list of commands and there switches? My wife and I had a good laugh at one book which prompted me to understand that Groff was really just a Froff with a little foam on it. I mean, who are these people writing these things?
And then the posts. For example, one part of a post indicated using the following command:
chmod 755 /usr/local/bin/[file_name]
This functions but fails to educate. If you do not already know that this is setting a permission like in Unix, you are none the wiser and must return to the forum to pester everyone every time you need to do anything. In this case, I was fortunate enough to have had a minimal amount of prior knowledge with which to interpret that and a few other instructions. When I see this happening, I am reminded of the Japanese (I currently reside amongst them) who constantly whine about foreigners not being able to speak their language but who take great care that those same foreigners not learn it. In this way they maintain there feeble sense of superiority.
This said, I suggest that some area be set aside as a guide to guides for those who wish to educate themselves and not merely rely on the education of others. I also suggest that the kind people who share their knowledge do so in a genuine way, for sharing knowledge in a way which does not bring understanding is not sharing at all. In fact, it is hobbling. Bear in mind that there is a world of difference between learning by rote (generally applicable to only one specific problem solving activity) and understanding (generally applicable to an infinite number of potential problem resolution activities).
Sorry for being so long, but I really think that no one has sussed what Scoticus is trying to say. Also please, please understand that I am not ragging on you guys. I am only trying to get you to see that there is a kind of cognitive differential here which results in your kindness not always being helpful in the long term. As my favorite fortune cookie once so sagely advised me: The road to hell is paved.
Like Scoticus, I am new to puppy and in general to linux. I briefly tried out red hat a few years back, but got nowhere fast at warp factor 10 for the same reason that Scoticus and I are having problems dealing with the change to puppy.
I recently asked a question and combined it with a little venting (as in a criticism of the same nature as Scoticus'). A few people very promptly answered the specific question and I discovered the syntax problem pointed out by the reply and a few others in the process of correcting it. This help was offered despite the high probability that my comments may have been taken to be very negative. I assure everyone that this is not the case, regardless of how it may appear.
However, nobody addressed the larger question about how to get started in linux and the recurring difficulty in reaching a level of understanding between those who know and those who do not. As long as people like us do not find some systematic way in which to approach linux, we will only create a nuisance for ourselves and others and we will be unable to progress and eventually contribute.
Not knowing a lot about puppy or linux does not mean to say that we are stupid. Neither does it mean that we are unwilling to struggle with the need to learn, and neither does it mean that we are amongst the ranks of the cult of Bill Gates. What we are is a little disoriented and we are begging for someone to point the way.
I mentioned in my other post that linux books I have looked at are of two basic genre. There are the linux for dummies genre books which persist for hundreds of pages in inane generalities and which leave you virtually none the wiser, and there are the linux for those who already know books which do not even appear to be written in English. Is there a book about linux which teaches you how to work with the command line, yet which is not simply comprised of an alphabetical list of commands and there switches? My wife and I had a good laugh at one book which prompted me to understand that Groff was really just a Froff with a little foam on it. I mean, who are these people writing these things?
And then the posts. For example, one part of a post indicated using the following command:
chmod 755 /usr/local/bin/[file_name]
This functions but fails to educate. If you do not already know that this is setting a permission like in Unix, you are none the wiser and must return to the forum to pester everyone every time you need to do anything. In this case, I was fortunate enough to have had a minimal amount of prior knowledge with which to interpret that and a few other instructions. When I see this happening, I am reminded of the Japanese (I currently reside amongst them) who constantly whine about foreigners not being able to speak their language but who take great care that those same foreigners not learn it. In this way they maintain there feeble sense of superiority.
This said, I suggest that some area be set aside as a guide to guides for those who wish to educate themselves and not merely rely on the education of others. I also suggest that the kind people who share their knowledge do so in a genuine way, for sharing knowledge in a way which does not bring understanding is not sharing at all. In fact, it is hobbling. Bear in mind that there is a world of difference between learning by rote (generally applicable to only one specific problem solving activity) and understanding (generally applicable to an infinite number of potential problem resolution activities).
Sorry for being so long, but I really think that no one has sussed what Scoticus is trying to say. Also please, please understand that I am not ragging on you guys. I am only trying to get you to see that there is a kind of cognitive differential here which results in your kindness not always being helpful in the long term. As my favorite fortune cookie once so sagely advised me: The road to hell is paved.
i agree with you blokes, in that i want a linux guide that's easy to comprehend, yet not overly simplistic. even better, i want a guide that "evolves" to whatever level i'm at.
i've mentioned on the forum, (couple of years ago), how an aussie comedy had a bloke dressed up as "paper-clip-man", parodying the msoft help facility, running around an office harassing people by continually asking "i'm paper clip man. Can i help you?"
i've mentioned on the forum, (couple of years ago), how an aussie comedy had a bloke dressed up as "paper-clip-man", parodying the msoft help facility, running around an office harassing people by continually asking "i'm paper clip man. Can i help you?"
You two address a pretty generic problem which has a simple cause:
due to the winDOS monopoly and lock in all our brains have started to become one way roads and everything which doesn't behave like winDOS "isn't working".
When we all started with winDOS it was pretty simple and the knowledge grew over time. There were plenty of people around with the same level of problems and everybody was willing to just try.
Switching from winDOS to Linux requires to learn a lot of new things (or again) as it is different
For this reason I did my Linux selection very carefully when I decided in 1998 that it's time to leave winDOS. Puppy and it's derivatives are great distros and beat a lot of those with large communities and industry backing when it comes to efficiency and perfection but they are not the easiest for those wanting to try out Linux. The easiest to convert (IMHO) are openSuSE, Xandros, Freespire and to a point *ubuntu (no experience with Fedora) as they are designed to make it as easy as possible. They all need a better PC then Puppies but you wouldn't attemt to run eXPerimental on an old P100 either.
Writing a book to learn Linux is close to impossible. For one person it will be boring (as it was stated "lots of generalities") or far to techy...
This may make me a "bad boy" here but I think that those who are really new to Linux should start with one of the more mainstream distros mentioned above (there are also more people around you which may know their way with them). Once you know your way around use a Puppy again and you will be surprised how much easier it is. Sure, you won't get the same quality of newsgroup as you have for Puppy so if our attempts to try to help are ok for you PLEASE stay around and I think the gurus here will make your setup work, just not with one response.... Just always keep in mind that a short question may not explain what the problem really is. You may have to answer a lot of questions before the problem is really discovered and only after this a solution can be found. In simple words: keep your current setup and play with Puppy on a spare machine (or run it from CD/USB)
Bottom line, you have a much steeper learning curve to switch from winDOS XP to Linux then to Wishdah but you have one in any case. Once you made the move you're back to incremental learning which I have to admit is much easier.
I had and have my trouble with Puppy too as it's simply a bit different to what I am used to (SuSE). Once I have a known good setup I save the pup-save file under a different name, then start to experiment and once I managed to break the system (again) I just copy the "good" file back over the current one: back to the beginning
Juergen
(openSuSE 10.2 on workstation, SLES10 on server and currently Grafpup 2.x pre-alpha on my experimental PC, the one I use the most)
due to the winDOS monopoly and lock in all our brains have started to become one way roads and everything which doesn't behave like winDOS "isn't working".
When we all started with winDOS it was pretty simple and the knowledge grew over time. There were plenty of people around with the same level of problems and everybody was willing to just try.
Switching from winDOS to Linux requires to learn a lot of new things (or again) as it is different
For this reason I did my Linux selection very carefully when I decided in 1998 that it's time to leave winDOS. Puppy and it's derivatives are great distros and beat a lot of those with large communities and industry backing when it comes to efficiency and perfection but they are not the easiest for those wanting to try out Linux. The easiest to convert (IMHO) are openSuSE, Xandros, Freespire and to a point *ubuntu (no experience with Fedora) as they are designed to make it as easy as possible. They all need a better PC then Puppies but you wouldn't attemt to run eXPerimental on an old P100 either.
Writing a book to learn Linux is close to impossible. For one person it will be boring (as it was stated "lots of generalities") or far to techy...
This may make me a "bad boy" here but I think that those who are really new to Linux should start with one of the more mainstream distros mentioned above (there are also more people around you which may know their way with them). Once you know your way around use a Puppy again and you will be surprised how much easier it is. Sure, you won't get the same quality of newsgroup as you have for Puppy so if our attempts to try to help are ok for you PLEASE stay around and I think the gurus here will make your setup work, just not with one response.... Just always keep in mind that a short question may not explain what the problem really is. You may have to answer a lot of questions before the problem is really discovered and only after this a solution can be found. In simple words: keep your current setup and play with Puppy on a spare machine (or run it from CD/USB)
Bottom line, you have a much steeper learning curve to switch from winDOS XP to Linux then to Wishdah but you have one in any case. Once you made the move you're back to incremental learning which I have to admit is much easier.
I had and have my trouble with Puppy too as it's simply a bit different to what I am used to (SuSE). Once I have a known good setup I save the pup-save file under a different name, then start to experiment and once I managed to break the system (again) I just copy the "good" file back over the current one: back to the beginning
Juergen
(openSuSE 10.2 on workstation, SLES10 on server and currently Grafpup 2.x pre-alpha on my experimental PC, the one I use the most)
-- in a world without fences and walls who needs Windows and Gates? --
>>> winDOS free since 1998 <<<
>>> winDOS free since 1998 <<<
from Barry's Mission Statement
General non-specific questions are hard to answer, the answer given should depend on the background knowledge of the person asking and this may be difficult to gauge in a forum. If I try to answer a question then the first answer I give will probably be the easiest answer for me to write, I am always happy to expand and explain IF asked to.
If you just want puppy to work then install the dotpups and specific fixes for your problems.
If you want to understand linux in general then you need to read around, experiment and ask specific questions about what you've read/experienced.
Puppy is a good platform to do this because it is easy to get back to a base install. I used multi-session for my first couple of puppy installations, being able to break the system completely and then not save the session or boot with pfix=1 is a really good way to experiment.
Puppy is a free resource efficient OS AND collection of applications that should be easy to use. I don't think it is about teaching people to use linux. Much of this forum is about solving particular problems using puppy sometimes this may involve explaining a particular linux command in detail. I'm here because I want a light weight OS, I enjoy offering advice and asking specific questions.Barry Kauler wrote:# Puppy will be extremely friendly for Linux newbies.
# Puppy will boot up and run extraordinarily fast.
# Puppy will have all the applications needed for daily use.
# Puppy will just work, no hassles.
# Puppy will breathe new life into old PCs
General non-specific questions are hard to answer, the answer given should depend on the background knowledge of the person asking and this may be difficult to gauge in a forum. If I try to answer a question then the first answer I give will probably be the easiest answer for me to write, I am always happy to expand and explain IF asked to.
If you just want puppy to work then install the dotpups and specific fixes for your problems.
If you want to understand linux in general then you need to read around, experiment and ask specific questions about what you've read/experienced.
Puppy is a good platform to do this because it is easy to get back to a base install. I used multi-session for my first couple of puppy installations, being able to break the system completely and then not save the session or boot with pfix=1 is a really good way to experiment.
Will
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]
contribute: [url=http://www.puppylinux.org]community website[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6c3nm6]screenshots[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/6j2gbz]puplets[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/57gykn]wiki[/url], [url=http://tinyurl.com/5dgr83]rss[/url]
"if you don't go Linux you're dumb" So where do I learn
Juergen sorry but I can not accept your arguement. If as is generally claimed from what I see on the forum that PUPPY IS THE GREATEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD why should we have to learn another OS to convert back. You are asking us to learn Spanish to enable us to understand yet another latin language.
Both muggins and don largo support the cause for clarity in what is being put forward in both the posts and manuals. We all appreciate the efforts that go into upgrading Puppy but if manuals are not kept up to date or matters clearly explained then people will get frustrated when what to a developer is a simple matter is subject to repeated clarifications.
I am searching here, there and everywhere in an attempt not to keep pestering those in the know and would much prefer to be able to stand on my own two feet.
Ian
Both muggins and don largo support the cause for clarity in what is being put forward in both the posts and manuals. We all appreciate the efforts that go into upgrading Puppy but if manuals are not kept up to date or matters clearly explained then people will get frustrated when what to a developer is a simple matter is subject to repeated clarifications.
I am searching here, there and everywhere in an attempt not to keep pestering those in the know and would much prefer to be able to stand on my own two feet.
Ian
I suppose that I have come at Linux a different way than some of the rest of you. I just run the OS and toy around with it until I figure out how to do something. I ask questions when I run into something that I can't figure out by poking around. Not everyone learns that way, though.
I still haven't tried to tackle the command line, but I have been able to do everything I need from the GUI so far.
I looked for some Linux documentation and found this: <http://linuxreviews.org/beginner/>. I haven't read through it, but maybe it will be what you need.
I still haven't tried to tackle the command line, but I have been able to do everything I need from the GUI so far.
I looked for some Linux documentation and found this: <http://linuxreviews.org/beginner/>. I haven't read through it, but maybe it will be what you need.
Be brave that God may help thee, speak the truth even if it leads to death, and safeguard the helpless. - A knight's oath
Ian,
there's no such thing as one size fits all. Puppy and its derivatives are the best for what they are designed for and yes, in my opinion the best thing since sliced bread.
If you want to just use a PC and don't care much on why it works there are easier solutions like the ones I mentioned before. If you want a slick small and efficient solution then it's Puppy but you have to tinker a bit and learn your way around. If you really want to dig into Linux, the OS, then Kororaa or even deeper into the guts gentoo is the way to go.
Your comment about the documentation and manuals I respectfully want to reject. Have you recognized that all the work is done by volunteers in their spare time? We users are just consumers. As my C/C++ skills are well, lousy I can't help with the project but what I have done pretty often is just donate some money to a project I like and asked whether this could motivate them to accelerate what I wanted to have included soon. The FREE in FOSS doesn't stand for no cost, it stands for freedom and if I can't pay with my work I pay with my money. Currently I sponsor a student for a ham radio program and if I look at this specific program it will be far more expensive to me than a commercial program but in return I get other things for free (as in beer). Everybody finds it ok to pay a bunch for buggy code from Western-US and for other programs running on that OS and their manuals (if they exist) are lousy. However, Linux maintainers get blamed if their documents (a pain to write for most programmers) are not the latest and greatest.
The large distros have it easier. Usually backed by corporations which invest into them (pay developers) as they see the multiplier effect they can get out of this development model.
Please don't take this as an offense! I just wanted to to express my opinion about the situation with FOSS.
On the other side I'd say just keep on asking and you will finally reach the point where you will feel comfortable with the new environment. Worst case can only be that you don't get an answer which helps you........
Juergen
there's no such thing as one size fits all. Puppy and its derivatives are the best for what they are designed for and yes, in my opinion the best thing since sliced bread.
If you want to just use a PC and don't care much on why it works there are easier solutions like the ones I mentioned before. If you want a slick small and efficient solution then it's Puppy but you have to tinker a bit and learn your way around. If you really want to dig into Linux, the OS, then Kororaa or even deeper into the guts gentoo is the way to go.
Your comment about the documentation and manuals I respectfully want to reject. Have you recognized that all the work is done by volunteers in their spare time? We users are just consumers. As my C/C++ skills are well, lousy I can't help with the project but what I have done pretty often is just donate some money to a project I like and asked whether this could motivate them to accelerate what I wanted to have included soon. The FREE in FOSS doesn't stand for no cost, it stands for freedom and if I can't pay with my work I pay with my money. Currently I sponsor a student for a ham radio program and if I look at this specific program it will be far more expensive to me than a commercial program but in return I get other things for free (as in beer). Everybody finds it ok to pay a bunch for buggy code from Western-US and for other programs running on that OS and their manuals (if they exist) are lousy. However, Linux maintainers get blamed if their documents (a pain to write for most programmers) are not the latest and greatest.
The large distros have it easier. Usually backed by corporations which invest into them (pay developers) as they see the multiplier effect they can get out of this development model.
Please don't take this as an offense! I just wanted to to express my opinion about the situation with FOSS.
On the other side I'd say just keep on asking and you will finally reach the point where you will feel comfortable with the new environment. Worst case can only be that you don't get an answer which helps you........
Juergen
-- in a world without fences and walls who needs Windows and Gates? --
>>> winDOS free since 1998 <<<
>>> winDOS free since 1998 <<<
Kjs,
You hit it on the nail
You hit it on the nail
I always hear a lot of folks say that the forums, manual and help for puppy is lacking but what the heck do you want?? I don’t know a damn thing about DOS, never got the chance to learn but I was sick of window$ so I searched and after a long time found puppy. It took a while but with the help (and patience) of a lot of folks here I have put puppy on two laptops one I am teaching my four year old to use a computer on. This is more like a bunch of guy hanging out and building a car from the ground up. Not BMW!I am not downing anybody or saying that the pup-a-verse is perfect but you kind of have to learn the way of it as you learn linux. Look guys if you need help we are all here to help and if you keep asking and keep trying someone will be able to explain it to you but it takes time.Everybody finds it ok to pay a bunch for buggy code from Western-US and for other programs running on that OS and their manuals (if they exist) are lousy. However, Linux maintainers get blamed if their documents (a pain to write for most programmers) are not the latest and greatest.
The large distros have it easier. Usually backed by corporations which invest into them (pay developers) as they see the multiplier effect they can get out of this development model.
I'm just a passing thought in this world
language acquisition
Allow me to digress as a means to a point.
Having studied French and Spanish at my university, when I finally made it to a Spanish speaking country, I became fluent (really fluent) in a very short time. After only a few short months, even native speakers were known to mistake me for one myself. When I made the move to Japan, I did so with no prior study and fully confident that I am good at language acquisition. Almost a decade later, I struggle horribly with Japanese--something I posit, in part, to my lack of prior study. Language is largely imitative and a limiting factor can easily be reasoned to be the ability to catagorize language usage into coherent chunks and hence avail yourself of all language stimulation. For example, I am exposed to Japanese all day long, but I can only capitalize on the portions of it which I am able to intrepret in some way. Anything outside of this ability to process into coherence is essentially analogous to mental white noise.
I see linux as just another language. The thing of it is that with the help of a good book or some other reliable source, the learning process is much much faster than if we just blunder around in the dark, and what we seek, then, is just such a guide. I would think, for example, that a knowledge of Unix or some/any flavor of Unix would put you in a pretty good position to intreprete incoming stimuli and more rapidly assimilate them into coherent functioning hypotheses. Why there don't seem to be any coherent works about Linux I am not familiar enough with Linux to say. My preliminary view is that there may well be linux/unix books out there which would merit translation into English.
As for experimentation, in fact I have been doing just as has been suggested. I take my copy of liveCD (which I accidently finalized anyway) and I use it, abuse it, experiment and then simply shut down. when I find something that works for me, I incorporate it into a version I have saved to a CF card. This gives me complete liberty to take any chance or follow any hunch without much worry. Well, lately I have had to worry a little because my wife is unhappy with the amount of time during which she does not have my attention and during which I am prone to small bouts of unsavory language (on a bad day), and when asked to justify this time invested, I have virtually nothing to show for it. I find it increasingly difficult to convince even myself that the time is well spent, especially knowing that a more focused approach would yield a much bigger payout. Incidentally, I really have to do something about that bark because my wife always knows that I roached my puppy again when she hears that tell-tale startup Bow! Wow!
As for Puppy as a linux starting point, I have my reasons for wanting Puppy. Puppy really almost seems to good to be true, and I will be using it in the future--which is more than I can say for my copy of windows. Most of what I really need to know I suspect is applicable to Linux species in general and not specifically relevant to Puppy. Note that this began with a request for pointers towards Linux and not specifically Puppy.
This said, I still think you are all great for hanging around and helping us get our feet wet (and not just the ears). A little puppy chow is much appreciated, but we have to grow up some day.
Having studied French and Spanish at my university, when I finally made it to a Spanish speaking country, I became fluent (really fluent) in a very short time. After only a few short months, even native speakers were known to mistake me for one myself. When I made the move to Japan, I did so with no prior study and fully confident that I am good at language acquisition. Almost a decade later, I struggle horribly with Japanese--something I posit, in part, to my lack of prior study. Language is largely imitative and a limiting factor can easily be reasoned to be the ability to catagorize language usage into coherent chunks and hence avail yourself of all language stimulation. For example, I am exposed to Japanese all day long, but I can only capitalize on the portions of it which I am able to intrepret in some way. Anything outside of this ability to process into coherence is essentially analogous to mental white noise.
I see linux as just another language. The thing of it is that with the help of a good book or some other reliable source, the learning process is much much faster than if we just blunder around in the dark, and what we seek, then, is just such a guide. I would think, for example, that a knowledge of Unix or some/any flavor of Unix would put you in a pretty good position to intreprete incoming stimuli and more rapidly assimilate them into coherent functioning hypotheses. Why there don't seem to be any coherent works about Linux I am not familiar enough with Linux to say. My preliminary view is that there may well be linux/unix books out there which would merit translation into English.
As for experimentation, in fact I have been doing just as has been suggested. I take my copy of liveCD (which I accidently finalized anyway) and I use it, abuse it, experiment and then simply shut down. when I find something that works for me, I incorporate it into a version I have saved to a CF card. This gives me complete liberty to take any chance or follow any hunch without much worry. Well, lately I have had to worry a little because my wife is unhappy with the amount of time during which she does not have my attention and during which I am prone to small bouts of unsavory language (on a bad day), and when asked to justify this time invested, I have virtually nothing to show for it. I find it increasingly difficult to convince even myself that the time is well spent, especially knowing that a more focused approach would yield a much bigger payout. Incidentally, I really have to do something about that bark because my wife always knows that I roached my puppy again when she hears that tell-tale startup Bow! Wow!
As for Puppy as a linux starting point, I have my reasons for wanting Puppy. Puppy really almost seems to good to be true, and I will be using it in the future--which is more than I can say for my copy of windows. Most of what I really need to know I suspect is applicable to Linux species in general and not specifically relevant to Puppy. Note that this began with a request for pointers towards Linux and not specifically Puppy.
This said, I still think you are all great for hanging around and helping us get our feet wet (and not just the ears). A little puppy chow is much appreciated, but we have to grow up some day.
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marksouth2000
- Posts: 622
- Joined: Wed 05 Apr 2006, 20:43
Re: language acquisition
You cannot be serious.don largo wrote:Why there don't seem to be any coherent works about Linux I am not familiar enough with Linux to say.
Google is full of links to coherent pages on Linux.
language acquisition
I have to go with marksouth2000 There is a whole heap of info out there, but you have to work at it. Not saying that don largo is saying this but Puppy is not Window$ so you can not just click a link and have a problem fixed(although billy has not gotten that down yet).
don largo wrote:
don largo wrote:
Happens to the best of usWell, lately I have had to worry a little because my wife is unhappy with the amount of time during which she does not have my attention and during which I am prone to small bouts of unsavory language (on a bad day), and when asked to justify this time invested, I have virtually nothing to show for it. I find it increasingly difficult to convince even myself that the time is well spent, especially knowing that a more focused approach would yield a much bigger payout.
I'm just a passing thought in this world