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[CLOSED] Fatdog64-720 Beta [1 Dec 2017]
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dr. Dan

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec 2017, 21:32    Post subject:  

@jamesbond
Quote:
What's the size of your /tmp? (Running "df -h /tmp" on a terminal will tell you that). The installer will only show "small initrd" checkbox if you have at least 1000M in /tmp. That implies about 2G of RAM.
If your machine has less, the installer won't show the checkbox.

That's good to know. I have 2G of ram. With the new savefile, as opposed to live CD, /tmp is 996M. I'll look into it more later. Splitting the initrd saves me 10~15 seconds at boot. It's still far faster than the old Windy OS.

Quote:
Solution for all of the above is simple: uninstall the offending library (a) and remove the white outs (fatdog-clean-whiteouts) to expose the built-in library; and (b) delete the old config file / directory / symlink from the savefile and do "aufs_reval" to expose the new config file from the basesfs. Of course, for this to work, you need to know the library and the config file which needs to changed. Generally not easy. The less you have customised your savefile/savedir, the greater sucsess you have, but who doesn't customise or install anything in their savefile/savedir?
Which is way we always say "Fatdog does not update from previous versions".

Yes, and I was warned, so I just passed it along FYI. I'm using a new savefile, and will have to copy some things over, but I save most items to another partition in the first place For what it's worth, that solution doesn't seem simple! It does seem educational, so I will try later to better understand it.

Gslapt will not upgrade still, and a few programs have not downloaded through Gslapt, xfe being one example. I've attached pictures.

I appreciate the response!
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3151
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 16 Dec 2017, 22:52    Post subject:  

@Sage - the vulkan-enabled drivers will stay in the repo, not included in the ISO. They're 5MB bigger and they're only usable in recent hardware, so for now we don't see the need to have it included in the ISO. But they're available for those who needs them, in the repo.

Quote:
a) can it be FULLy installed in the usual sense of deconstructed?

Still no ... There is a guide which I wrote 5 years ago for Fatdog64 600: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=79819 - some of the details have changed (e.g. the savefile command has changed a bit) although the principle is the same. Forum member avarghese has also written about it although I've not tested whether it works: http://my-techno-arena.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/full-installation-of-fatdog64-64-bit.html. If you're interested I can update my write-up for 720.

Quote:
b) like many recent distros RTL8201CL NIC driver is absent.

According to the kernel source the driver should be "sis900". Can you check if this driver is loaded? (terminal: "lsmod | grep sis900"); and if not, try to load it ("modprobe sis900")? And also watch "dmesg" output to see if the driver prints out any errors (missing firmware perhaps? Though I can't see any reference to firmware in the source code...)

@dr.Dan:

Quote:
That's good to know. I have 2G of ram. With the new savefile, as opposed to live CD, /tmp is 996M. I'll look into it more later. Splitting the initrd saves me 10~15 seconds at boot. It's still far faster than the old Windy OS.


You can split initrd manually: http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/faqs/huge-initrd.html.
Alternatively, in the next release, we have adopted a suggestion from LateAdopter, here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=976400#976400, we're using method (2) explained in that post.

Quote:
For what it's worth, that solution doesn't seem simple!

It's not! That's why we never advertise it.

Quote:
Gslapt will not upgrade still, and a few programs have not downloaded through Gslapt, xfe being one example. I've attached pictures.
Thanks, we'll check it out.
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borzeh

Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017, 02:29    Post subject: Very Stable Beta  

Hi!
Successfully frugal install 720b on lenovo x220 (4GbRamCi5intelGMA3000) on inernal HDD sda1.
easily install python3 + pip + kivy (latest package MAKE INSTALL)
I like taskbarGrouping of same application windows very much!
everything works perfect as 710

But:

1- How can change menu icons height? , their size in 710 is more better , i think!

2- When Right click on the USB mounted drives -> there isnt safty remove straight (must first unmount then safty remve will appear!)

3-hope 720 final can be updated from 720b! Very Happy

------
Thank you all for the best OS of the times!
i'm using fatdog since 700 and love it very much
Wink

Last edited by borzeh on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 22:24; edited 1 time in total
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5389
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 17 Dec 2017, 05:27    Post subject:  

Many thanks, jb. As explained, I am very happy using the liveCD for much of my work, but I liked your selections and modus operandi sufficiently to think about a relatively compact FULL installation. So, yes please, any further advice/revised instructions always welcome.

Ah, yes, the SiS900 chipset beloved of ECS. Crossed swords with that one before. Worthwhile, though, because after all the furore surrounding earlier ECS products when they first enacted the fully integrated single chip, I've found their later models, when they returned to separated N & S units, to be exceptionally stable and long-lasting, even with clocking. Which is why I still run several, 486/754&939. Vulkan is new to me, but for a FULL, size is less important, especially as I still use quite a bit of rotating storage which is well-proven, can withstand 20G & cheap to replace unlike SSSD, which requires careful SW control, etc. Will pursue your suggestions sometime this week, subject to 'events'!

Merry Christmas & Blwyddyn Newydd Dda, but not too 'merry', especially to all those who've given such good advice, innovation and support this year.

Next day: revisited the TV display issue. Tried all the drivers, resolutions & co again, including Intel - none work. Additionally, my UE32F5300AKXXU machine (already 2.5yrs old - tempus fugit) doesn't appear to provide adjustment to inputs via 'Menu'; perhaps I should take time to read the embedded instruction manual! - or get an LG machine? So many TVs, thinking of using them to light the house, esp. if they have a Redshift feature.
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stemsee

Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 2256
Location: In The Way

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 07:34    Post subject:  

Sorry if this is posted earlier I am in a rush so didn't go through all the posts.

Manually coppied initrd and vmlinuz from the iso to a directory and added grub.sfg entry. Would NOT boot. Balked at initrd

Booted iso in qemu, all good.

booted FatHouse with vmlinuz-4.14.2 (not modules) Booted a-ok!

bootd new initrd with vmlinuz-4.7.1 (FatDog) balked at initrd.

initrd has some problem!

Opened wpa-gui. wlan3 (usb donge) auto-selected in wifi tab, only etho and wlan2 (pcie) both in wired selection box.

No time to check stuff yet but this is first use!
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3151
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 09:42    Post subject:  

Quote:
How can change menu icons height? , their size in 710 is more better , i think!
Errr, actually I don't know myself Embarassed . I need to figure it out; I'll let you know when I find out Smile May be step/SFR can help too.

Quote:
When Right click on the USB mounted drives -> there isnt safty remove straight (must first unmount then safty remve will appear!)
The correct procedure is indeed to unmount first before you can safely remove. In older versions this couldn't be done because of the limitations on how we draw the drive icons. In 720 we have a more flexible system that enables us to do just that.

Quote:
hope 720 final can be updated from 720b!
Yes it should be. There isn't too much breaking changes.

Quote:
... I still use quite a bit of rotating storage which is well-proven, can withstand 20G ...
I'm a rotating storage fan myself, but do they really withstand 20G Shocked ? I thought they're quite fragile in terms of mechanical stress and shocks (compared to SSD).

Quote:
Next day: revisited the TV display issue. Tried all the drivers, resolutions & co again, including Intel - none work.
That's odd. Just like others, I too connected my laptop with HDMI screens, and it worked. In the past I had it connected to Samsung HD TV (1366x768), Samsung Full HD (1920x1080), Panasonic Full HD (1920x1080), Bauhn Full HD (1920x1080) - all worked. All this were direct connection from laptop's HDMI port to the TV.

Can you explain better of your connection? For example - what is the display adapter? What is output of the display adapter? Do you have a direct connection from adapter to the TV - or do you use some sort of conversion box in the process? Do you have a secondary (hopefully VGA) monitor? I ask the last question because if you have a working display and a non-working one, at least we can see the display and we can see the error messages from the non-working monitor.

Quote:
Would NOT boot. Balked at initrd
Could you please explain what you mean by "balked"? Do you see any error messages? What is the bootloader you use?

Quote:
Opened wpa-gui. wlan3 (usb donge) auto-selected in wifi tab, only etho and wlan2 (pcie) both in wired selection box.
Interesting. Would you be able to share the output of "iwconfig" and "ifconfig -a"?
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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1658

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 10:12    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
Quote:
How can change menu icons height? , their size in 710 is more better , i think!
Errr, actually I don't know myself Embarassed . I need to figure it out; I'll let you know when I find out Smile May be step/SFR can help too.

The icons size seems to depend on the font size: Right-click the Menu -> Configure -> Custom font size.

HTH
Greetings!

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borzeh

Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 11:32    Post subject:    

@jamesbond
Thank you very much

@SFR
Thank you dear SFR, but i think this is not all depend on font size
as you compare 710 and 720b menu , font size not increased , but something get more space (like padding in HTML)
anyway its not an Annoying change ...

Another question Idea
Is there possible way to have close icon on each window tasks in taskbar when they are open as a group? i know it can be done by right click on each one , but if its a simple red Multiplication sign (Only on Expandable Group tasks) ... maybe better

Overall , Great great great work
Thank you Wink
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5389
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 12:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
TV display issue

All of the options you suggest ie direct HDMI, via adapters, straight to vga input, etc, etc. - assume, when it comes to HW, I've got the lot dating from ~1985 to present & well versed in swapping working/dud/misbehaving systems. Nearly got a picture with a direct vga connector, 640x480, Basic Vesa but it collapsed into a vertical line width of ~1cm and wrote this to the HD so couldn't pursue it with dismantling the HD - again! When it comes to SW - that's your bag and I need instructions in words of, preferably, one syllable.

Quote:
NIC probe

lsmod | grep (for sis900 and RTL8201CL - gives no OP)
Modprobe not helpful either for sis900 but gives FATAL - not found in RTL---
dmesg lists sis900c v1.08.10 Apr 2 2006
???
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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1658

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 12:27    Post subject:  

borzeh wrote:
something get more space (like padding in HTML)

Ok, I think I know what you mean. It's a theme thing.
Open /usr/share/lxqt/themes/ambiance/lxqt-panel.qss and decrease the padding (both 7px to e.g. 4px) in this section:
Code:
#MainMenu QMenu::item {
    color: #f2f1f0;
    padding: 7px 40px 7px 24px;
}

Then you need to reload the theme. Open ~/.config/lxqt/lxqt.conf, rename theme name to anything:
Code:
theme=ambiance

and save it, then rename it back to ambiance and save again.
If this won't work, you need to restart X.

Btw, you may also want to check out 23Smokey theme.
I've been using it exclusively since 710, that's why didn't notice the change in ambiance's menu items padding.

borzeh wrote:
Is there possible way to have close icon on each window tasks in taskbar when they are open as a group? i know it can be done by right click on each one , but if its a simple red Multiplication sign (Only on Expandable Group tasks) ... maybe better

I don't see such an option in the settings, but alternatively you can enable: right-click the taskbar -> Configure -> Close on middle-click.

Greetings!

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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 5088
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 13:06    Post subject:  

Quote:
jamesbond wrote:
Quote:
How can change menu icons height? , their size in 710 is more better , i think!
Errr, actually I don't know myself Embarassed . I need to figure it out; I'll let you know when I find out Smile May be step/SFR can help too.


FAQ page for icons that might be useful --->
https://github.com/mypaint/mypaint/wiki/FAQ-Missing-icons
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dr. Dan

Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 18 Dec 2017, 22:48    Post subject: odds & ends  

Greetings again,

one more note about running the 710 savefolder. It didn't honor the default program settings, specifically using SeaMonkey instead of PaleMoon, and instead of Thunderbird. I'm using a new savefolder, so it's not an issue, but just more information.

In getting set up with the new savefolder, I opened Gslapt, updated it, then marked upgradable. It was not entirely happy. I've attached an image below.

I've wished for some time that there was a hibernate or hybrid-suspend option. I see files in the system to that end, but I'm wary of trying to enable them. (Perhaps right now, while testing the beta anyway, would be better than at other times.) Will it work? Is there a help document somewhere?

Since I can't hibernate, on occasion the laptop runs out of battery charge while suspended, which is not ideal for the file system. I have added an option to the bootloader to run the dofsck option without having to type it in. I'm considering using it at every boot. Perhaps a note among the help files explaining how to do that would be useful to others. Something automated would be nice, but with a variety of bootloader options, I can see why that might not happen.

Lastly, I've never noticed this explicitly spelled out, but it is implied somewhere. When preparing a thumbdrive to be a Fatdog64 boot device, creating 2 partitions, the first exfat, the second ex2 or otherwise non-journaling, and large enough for Fatdog64 to reside there comfortably, then using the installer to install to the 2nd partition results in a Windy-readable drive as well as a Fatdog64 boot device. This info might be helpful in a help document.

Dan
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3151
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Tue 19 Dec 2017, 01:36    Post subject:  

Quote:
one more note about running the 710 savefolder. It didn't honor the default program settings, specifically using SeaMonkey instead of PaleMoon, and instead of Thunderbird. I'm using a new savefolder, so it's not an issue, but just more information.
The "defaultprogram" was extended from 710 to 720 and requires an updated /etc/defaultprograms. However this file is edited whenever you change the default programs, and this edited file (in savefile/savedir) will obscure the newer file from the basesfs doesn't show up. Hence the problem.

Quote:
In getting set up with the new savefolder, I opened Gslapt, updated it, then marked upgradable. It was not entirely happy. I've attached an image below.

Fixed, thank you. Anyway, gslapt is not supposed to be updated via GUI anyway (it cannot update itself when it is running). And gslap-0.5.4b has known problems, I will remove it from the repo so you can't accidentally update to it.

Quote:
I've wished for some time that there was a hibernate or hybrid-suspend option. I see files in the system to that end, but I'm wary of trying to enable them. (Perhaps right now, while testing the beta anyway, would be better than at other times.) Will it work? Is there a help document somewhere?

"Hibernate" requires complex setup - the "resume from hibernate" is basically the same as usual power-up; except that the system is supposed to load the context from a special file (swap file). Fatdog64 usually run without swapfile so this isn't possible in the default setup.

Even if you have swap, the initrd must be specially crafted to load the context from the swapfile if the computer is coming up from hibernate instead of from normal boot. The issue here is that Fatdog isn't installed in the usual "full-install" sense of the word; when it wakes up it needs to know where the swapfile is, in order to load it. The same way it has to look for its basesfs and savefile/savedir at every boot. It's not simple to get this going, but it's not impossible either.

I have to admit that my motivation to write the support for this is very low, because I can't even get the "suspend-to-RAM" works for me - I've got blank screen; so I cannot test the more complex suspend-to-disk (="hibernate") scenario. May be one day I will. Don't count on it though Smile

Quote:
I'm considering using it at every boot.
Actually I do use it at every boot. It doesn't add much boot time. Perhaps we should make it on at all times, and have the option to exclude it if it's unwanted?

Quote:
Lastly, I've never noticed this explicitly spelled out, but it is implied somewhere. When preparing a thumbdrive to be a Fatdog64 boot device, creating 2 partitions, the first exfat, the second ex2 or otherwise non-journaling, and large enough for Fatdog64 to reside there comfortably, then using the installer to install to the 2nd partition results in a Windy-readable drive as well as a Fatdog64 boot device. This info might be helpful in a help document.

Indeed. That's the exact setup that I use for some of USB flash drives. Fatdog is well protected in a partition that Windows can't see, but we can still use the first (and large) partition for sharing with Windows.

These are useful usage notes, the "dofsck" notes too. They should be documented somewhere. Eventually they will Smile

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fatdog

Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue 19 Dec 2017, 01:37    Post subject:  

We are closing the beta. Final release is coming soon.

The following issues are **NOT** addressed in the Final release and will be addressed later:
- don570 mtpaint icon issue
- certain radeon machines may have video problems (SFR can explain this more if you need more info).
- nfs-utils not included in base (or repo) yet. We don't have time to investigate it yet, but eventually we want it to be available in the repo, and if size permits, in the basesfs too.

The following issues may or may not be **NOT** addressed in the Final release:
- Sage's TV display issue (new Linux kernel may have addressed it)
- Sage's RTL8201CL ethernet issue (new Linux kernel may have addressed it)
==> If this is not solved, let's take this offline - drop me a PM.

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5389
Location: GB

PostPosted: Tue 19 Dec 2017, 04:34    Post subject:  

Quote:
==> If this is not solved, let's take this offline - drop me a PM.
Thanks & for the record, detailed PM discussions underway with jb.
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