[CLOSED] Fatdog64-720 Beta [1 Dec 2017]

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Billtoo
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#21 Post by Billtoo »

jake29 wrote:@Billtoo: Try kodi_17_3_avahi_0_6_32-2017.09.03-x86_64-35.sfs available in SFS Manager. It works fine for me.
.
Hi jake29,

That's the SFS that I used but the problem was that I didn't include the 32bit libs when I installed the proprietary Nvidia driver.
I uninstalled and then reinstalled the driver with the 32bit libs and kodi works fine now.

I've lost the panel at the bottom of the screen so I may have to start from scratch to get things right.

Thanks.
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LateAdopter
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#22 Post by LateAdopter »

belham2 wrote: Hope I can make this faster, as I am NOT gonna wait 17 minutes every time I boot.
I prefer the method jamesbond described in his lightofdawn blog that doesn't need as much space.

Click on initrd to open it, move fd64.sfs and kernel-modules.sfs out somewhere safe, rename blank.sfs to kernel-modules.sfs - click to repack initrd.

That is from memory, so E&OE. Hopefully jamesbond can point out anything I missed.

Then I use the three bits for all of my fatdog 710 copies running from an SSD or USB SDcard.

belham2
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#23 Post by belham2 »

SFR wrote:
belham2 wrote: 17 minutes to friggin' 'frugal' boot. :shock:
Hey Belham

I believe you've already got a way to work around this problem:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 361#901361

Still, it's incredible bad luck that all your machines have this thing with FD. :shock:

Greetings!
Hi SFR (and James/Kirk/Step),

I know, right? Thanks for linking that, SFR. I actually did remember & had found it late last night, and followed everything again. Now FD64-720 is back to about 30-40sec boot time.

Maybe I need to get a new machine, and come into the 21st century?

But, seriously, if I have this trouble on a 5 yr old Core I3 Vaio laptop with an SSD and over 8GB of Ram, just who in blue blazes is your guy's target market for Fatdogs?

To not sound too cranky, lol, because me luvs my Fat dog(s), even when they drives me nutso, but perhaps you guys need to re-think this thing just a tad in terms of releases. Slow boots, and always laying that at the feet of the user saying "...well, your BIOS (or some other thing) is holding you guys back..." ....boy, oh boy, young fellas, how about some respect (help me here, Sage!)

My stuff is NOT that old (the other machines are Athlon X2s, 2.8Ghz, 6-8 years old, and they ALL display the same thing). And they boot everything under Linux's Sun, pups too, likcety-split. Even those two monsters from the deep, OpenSUSE and Fedora, are 20-30sec boots across my machines. But put me a new Fatdog in? Heck no, the young fellas are trying to put me in a casket, 6 feet under 8)

To cut to the chase: doggone it, james/kirk/sfr/step, you guys are not playing nice!! Release a small init version if you have to. I'm already an old codger, and making me feel I am surrounded by everything else old (i,e. my equipment) when I excitedly grab a new FD version is, to borrow a youngin's phrase, 'seriously messed up' :wink:

I have half a mind to sail this Bismarck you pound down into the pup waters :lol: and shoot you all upside your buttocks and see how uz like that!! Boom, boom, you young heathen creatures...make a small init version so it boots fast!!!

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mavrothal
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#24 Post by mavrothal »

jamesbond wrote:
mavrothal wrote:The default brightness (40) was kind of low I think but I guess this depends on the hardware one uses.
I don't set the brightness at boot. That must be what the kernel choose by default.
OK.
Shouldn't /etc/brightness.conf takeover at some point though?

jamesbond wrote:
I still find strange that at first reboot after you make a savefile, asks again for language/keyboard/time etc setup that were set on the first (from CD) boot.
The rationale is that when you do a pristine boot, you are probably just:
a) testing whether you like Fatdog or not
b) fixing stuff

In which case, you probably don't want to be bothered by having to answer questions you probably don't care of.

Once you've decided that Fatdog is there to stay (and create a savefile/savefolder to keep your personalised settings), that would be the good time to ask for the initial settings.
I see the point but if you are booting with a savefile in place I guess it means you consider it a keeper.
Maybe instead of going through the setup again by default, ask first or at least provide an explanation before restarting the setup.
Otherwise looks like that the settings did not stick, which is not a good second impression :wink:
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Billtoo
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Fatdog64-720 Beta [1 Dec 2017]

#25 Post by Billtoo »

I started over and installed to the hard drive of my Acer Desktop:

# sh inxi -bw
System: Host: fatdog64-e81 Kernel: 4.14.2 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Openbox 3.5.2 Distro: Fatdog64 Linux 720
Machine: Device: desktop System: ACER product: Aspire M5620 v: R01-A4 serial: PTS860X0348050CF642700
Mobo: ACER model: G33T-AM v: 1.0 serial: 00000000 BIOS: American Megatrends v: R01-A4 date: 12/19/2007
Battery hidpp__0: charge: N/A condition: NA/NA Wh
hidpp__1: charge: N/A condition: NA/NA Wh
CPU: Quad core Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 (-MCP-) speed/max: 1603/2403 MHz
Graphics: Card: NVIDIA GF108 [GeForce GT 430]
Display Server: X.Org 1.19.5 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1920x1080@60.00hz, 1920x1080@60.00hz
OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GT 430/PCIe/SSE2 version: 4.3.0 NVIDIA 387.34
Network: Card: Intel 82566DC-2 Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e
Drives: HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (0.7% used)
Weather: Conditions: 28 F (-2 C) - Overcast Time: December 2, 8:57 AM EST
Info: Processes: 167 Uptime: 1:08 Memory: 687.6/7983.6MB Client: Shell (sh) inxi: 2.3.51
#

It's working okay so far,
Thanks.
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chiron²
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#26 Post by chiron² »

Downloaded and tested. Great. The first Puppy-like OS ever to run on an Thinkpad X61 Tablet AND recognize the Wacom Pen and touchscreen. Thanks to Xinput ootb. Did use savefile from 710, works OK so far, only my panels/docks are gone, but that is a minor prolem.

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Keef
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#27 Post by Keef »

Code: Select all

Dell XPS M1530
Processor	: 2x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7250  @ 2.00GHz
Memory: 2047MB (245MB used)
Resolution: 1280x800 pixels
OpenGL Renderer: NV84
All working fine. Boots to desktop with drive icons showing in under 30s.

jake29
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#28 Post by jake29 »

Keef wrote:

Code: Select all

Dell XPS M1530
Processor	: 2x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7250  @ 2.00GHz
Memory: 2047MB (245MB used)
Resolution: 1280x800 pixels
OpenGL Renderer: NV84
All working fine. Boots to desktop with drive icons showing in under 30s.
Core 2 Duo CPU (E4500) @ 2.20GHz / Memory: 3338MB. *Full install w/o Bootloader* - This build of FatDog64 boots quickly and without issue.
Last edited by jake29 on Sat 02 Dec 2017, 15:32, edited 2 times in total.

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bigpup
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#29 Post by bigpup »

External USB hard drive

Did a frugal install of Fatdog64-720 Beta

Used this to do the install running from Xenialpup64 7.5.
Yapi
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107601

Used Grub4dos bootloader config to setup a boot loader on the drive.

What should the boot menu entry really look like?

Here are the options.

1. (this is what Grub4dos config made it)

Code: Select all

title Fatdog64 (sdc5/Fatdog64720b)
  uuid 19b0847a-549d-49c9-8c98-25af56f1d0ee
  kernel /Fatdog64720b/vmlinuz psubdir=Fatdog64720b pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck
  initrd /Fatdog64720b/initrd
2. (I modified it)

Code: Select all

title Fatdog64 (sdc5/Fatdog64720b)
  uuid 19b0847a-549d-49c9-8c98-25af56f1d0ee
  kernel /Fatdog64720b/vmlinuz rootfstype=ramfs
  initrd /Fatdog64720b/initrd
3. (I modified it)

Code: Select all

title Fatdog64-720b
  rootnoverify (hd0,4)
  kernel /Fatdog64720b/vmlinuz savefile=direct:device:sdc5:/Fatdog64720b/fd64save
  initrd /Fatdog64720b/initrd

I too saw the slow to bootup.
It booted to the point of message:

Code: Select all

linux-bzImage, etc..........
Hung there for a long time.
No message about what is happening.
Finally got to a working desktop.

The only problem with this.
It looks like the computer is locked up or frozen.
Nothing indicates it is still in the bootup process.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

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don570
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#30 Post by don570 »

to bigpup....

I noticed something strange.
Your device is ---> device:sdc5

Whereas the system is looking for (hd0,4) which is the 5th partition on sda :roll:
Could that be causing the delay in booting???

____________________________________________


In my situation I have saved to a folder (fd64save-folder) rather than a save file ---> I believe that is an option when you first make a savefile??
and I am using the hard drive that the kernel recognizes --> sda

Code: Select all


title fatdog 710 (sda1/fd64save-folder)
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /fatdog710/initrd
  kernel /fatdog710/vmlinuz   psubdir=fatdog710 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck savefile=direct:device:sda1:/fd64save-folder 
  initrd /fatdog710/initrd
  
________

It boots quickly. If it isn't booting quickly then it is having recognition problems.

____________________________________________________

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rockedge
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#31 Post by rockedge »

That Bismarck was one hell of a ship...until she went down, that is Wink
I agree...here are some of my photos of the Bismarck at 4192 meters.....
Image

my collection : http://g3.rockedge.org/index.php/Film-T ... n-Bismarck

kirk
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#32 Post by kirk »

Slow boots are usually do to your boot loader or slow media such as USB2.0 or optical drive. The laptop I usually use has grub legacy installed, which works fast with ext2 or ext3, but with ext4 it's very very slow. So I use ext3. You may not notice how slow your boot loader is with a typical size kernel/initrd of 10MB or so, but when you make that 370MB, now it's very noticeable. For slow boot loaders you basically have three options:

1) Replace your boot loader.
2) Find a filesystem that your bootloader works well with (Ext3 for grub legacy, maybe others)
3) Split the base.sfs out of the initrd. See http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/fa ... nitrd.html

The reason that splitting the initd speeds things up is that your slow boot loader only has to load 10MB and then the OS loads the rest.

Wognath
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#33 Post by Wognath »

Fatdog team, thanks for 720.

As always, against advice, I copied my save folder over to the new install (frugal, large initrd). At first, there were no drive icons or panel with lxqt. lxqt-panel reports liblxqt.so not found. ** Edit: found .wh.liblxqt.so in /usr/local/lib64 **

Make-spot-more-secure went off without a hitch.

In all, a smooth transition. So far, everything I have tried works as expected. It boots a little slower (50s vs 44s for 710, from lickgrub menu to appearance of drive icons).

720 is now promoted to top of the grub menu! Thanks again.
Last edited by Wognath on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 00:48, edited 1 time in total.

jamesbond
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#34 Post by jamesbond »

@LateAdopter - you're correct. Here: http://lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/MinimalFatdogBoot.

@belham2: We started the huge/humongous initrd in Fatdog 600, that was back in 2012. The idea is not even new; Barry wrote Puppy support for humongous initrd back in 2007.

Machines I've previously booted Fatdog on (using USB flash drive)
(I no longer have access to some of them):
- Acer eMachines Netbook (2010): Atom N450 (single-core, 1.6GHz), 1GB - BIOS
- HP desktop (2012): Core i5 (dual-core 3.4 GHz), 8GB - UEFI
- Samsung laptop (2012): AMD A6 (quad-core, 1.6GHz), 8GB - BIOS
- Sony Vaio (2014): Core i5 (dual-core, 2.0Ghz), 16GB - UEFI
- MacMini (2017): Core i5 (dual-core, 2.6GHz), 8GB - UEFI
- Self-assembled desktop (2007): Athlon X2 (dual-core, can't remember GHz, definitely faster than the Atom Netbook), Gigabyte motherboard, 4GB - BIOS

Of all these machines, only the last one has the slowness problem. The rest boots from USB stick in less than 30seconds (from start of bootloader until kernel starts to run). The last one does take over 10 minutes if booted from USB or optical drive; **however** if booted from harddisk, it boots as fast as the others.

So no we're not expecting latest and greatest machine. Machines from 10 years ago is good enough.
... and always laying that at the feet of the user saying "...well, your BIOS (or some other thing) is holding you guys back..."
Unfortunately it is indeed the case. What other explanation could, then, explain why the much-lower-powered Atom netbook can boot Fatdog faster than the Athlon desktop?

As SFR said it, "it's incredible bad luck that **all** your machines have this problem".

@mavrothal:
OK.
Shouldn't /etc/brightness.conf takeover at some point though?
By default this file is empty. /etc/brightness.conf is updated by "brightness-up/brightness-down" (which you can activate using keyboard shortcuts, in sven); and by fatdog-brightness applet.
But for the this settings to be used at boot, you need to call "brightness-set restore" inside /etc/rc.d/rc.local.
Reason why this is not the default? This only makes sense if the machine as machine-adjustable brightness screen (=ie, laptop).
Otherwise looks like that the settings did not stick, which is not a good second impression
Yeah, this is a tough one because of conflicting objectives. What I've done is, if the settings have been set before, it will not be asked again. E.g. if you have set the keyboard map during first boot and then save the session, the first-run wizard which runs on the next boot will not ask about keyboard anymore. At least that's how it is supposed to work.

@bigpup -
The only problem with this.
It looks like the computer is locked up or frozen.
Nothing indicates it is still in the bootup process.
My answer will sound like a cop-out, but it is the truth. The problem of "no indication" is the bootloader problem. Fatdog hasn't even been started at that time, it's the bootloader who's in charge. So there is nothing we can do about it.

Here are some statistics:
- syslinux - prints dots as it loads the file. It does take a ridiculous amount of dots before Fatdog boots (about half a screen I think) but at least you know it's not hanging or something.
- old grub4dos (version 0.4.4 dated 2009) - does not show any indication.
- newer grub4dos (version 0.4.5c dated 2014) - prints the partial loaded size, updated every second
- grub-legacy: I don't know. Never used one.
- grub2 bios: I don't know. Never used one.
- grub2-efi: does not show any indication.
- refind: does not show any indication.
The only saving grace from refind and grub2-efi is that worst-case UEFI-based firmware can usually load it faster (under 30 seconds) than worst-case BIOS.

@All - thanks for test and feedback.

EDIT: Fix typo - Atom is N450 not N270.
Last edited by jamesbond on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 12:02, edited 1 time in total.
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chiron²
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#35 Post by chiron² »

Any chance for a newer GLIBC (like 2.22) in final? The later claws-mail builds from Debian repos complain and want GLIBC >=2.22. Apart from that, great. Soundcard selector works again. Desktop drive icons work. Boot time is fast. Tested on a Thinkpad R500, T9600, 4GB, 120GB SSD and a Thinkpad X61 Tablet L7200, 4GB, 120GB SSD. Both work ootb. Including the serial Wacom pen and touch of the tablet. Screen rotation in the tablet does work, only the rotate key is not recognized yet. The new WPA-GUI is great, too. Setting up static IP made easy ;).

Kodi from SFS manager misses libsmb, but that's explained earlier.

Only thing missing: NFS. Whoever needs it, the famous NFS utils pet does also work in FD 720 ;) Wink to the devs, it's only 152k.

Sage
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#36 Post by Sage »

Thanks for that discursive list of FD characteristics, jb - nice to know.
Entirely satisfied with your selection of options, procedures: slow liveCD booting not an issue for me, plenty more machines calling for attention while the dots chase down the screen!
FD is a dream machine for 64bit AFAIC.

chiron²
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#37 Post by chiron² »

Regarding Kodi, it's just a missing symlink. libsmbclient.so.0.2 is present, and in the Kodi SFS, also the symlink from libsmbclient.so.0 is. But in 720 somehow does not make it into the top layer of the filesystem. Manually created the symlink, and it works.

LateAdopter
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#38 Post by LateAdopter »

chiron² wrote:Any chance for a newer GLIBC (like 2.22) in final? The later claws-mail builds from Debian repos complain and want GLIBC >=2.22.
Ubuntu Xenial binaries have the same problem with FD710

belham2
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#39 Post by belham2 »

jamesbond wrote:@LateAdopter - you're correct. Here: http://lightofdawn.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/MinimalFatdogBoot.

@belham2: We started the huge/humongous initrd in Fatdog 600, that was back in 2012. The idea is not even new; Barry wrote Puppy support for humongous initrd back in 2007.

Machines I've previously booted Fatdog on (using USB flash drive)
(I no longer have access to some of them):
- Acer eMachines Netbook (2010): Atom N270 (single-core, 1.6GHz), 1GB - BIOS
- HP desktop (2012): Core i5 (dual-core 3.4 GHz), 8GB - UEFI
- Samsung laptop (2012): AMD A6 (quad-core, 1.6GHz), 8GB - BIOS
- Sony Vaio (2014): Core i5 (dual-core, 2.0Ghz), 16GB - UEFI
- MacMini (2017): Core i5 (dual-core, 2.6GHz), 8GB - UEFI
- Self-assembled desktop (2007): Athlon X2 (dual-core, can't remember GHz, definitely faster than the Atom Netbook), Gigabyte motherboard, 4GB - BIOS

Of all these machines, only the last one has the slowness problem. The rest boots from USB stick in less than 30seconds (from start of bootloader until kernel starts to run). The last one does take over 10 minutes if booted from USB or optical drive; **however** if booted from harddisk, it boots as fast as the others.

So no we're not expecting latest and greatest machine. Machines from 10 years ago is good enough.

Hi Jamesbond,

So, can I ask, all these machines that were tested used "frugal' installs? Or did you do "full" installs to those USBs? :wink: Is it possible full installs have no problem booting quickly? (in fact, the same Vaio laptop of mine that took 17 mins booting FD64-720 'frugal'-wise and takes only 30-40 secs with full install to the exact same USB-SDCard---I thought there was no way that was possible, but that's what happened yesterday after a "full" install to the same USB-SDcard & on the same Vaio laptop).

Anyhow, the gist of things is, like Barry, Fatdog has decided to push frugal from their area of focus. For Barry, it was with the Quirkies on.

Personally, I don't understand why, since so many of us on Murga still do 'frugal' installations with 'savefile/folder' and grub4dos. But, that said, for Fatdogs there is the ability to pull the .sfs out of the initrd, and make FD usable again, which is great but a bit of a pain. Still, the pain is uber minimal, since we wouldn't even have our Fatdogs if it wasn't for you & the the FD team making them in the 1st place, which I am super appreciative about. :wink:


P.S. I don't know if you noticed or, rather, had seen, but due to our pleadings for 'frugal-mercy' with Barry, several months ago he decided to again make 'frugal' booting dependable & easy once more. And it is quick, easy to setup, and works fantastic. I do believe FD team could do something similar---at least something easier than the current setup of having to go through initrd opening, stripping & re-packing (which is easy for us, given directions that is, but possibly not for others who see Fatdog on Distrowatch---CONGRATULATIONS, by the way, on the DW listing yesterday) -----but I wouldn't know where to begin :wink:

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#40 Post by jamesbond »

@chiron:
"Any chance for a newer GLIBC (like 2.22) in final?"
Unlikely. New glibc requires new tooling and generally speaking requires all packages to be rebuild. I do have glibc 2.26 package but I haven't tested whether it can work as an update for the current glibc in 720.
"The later claws-mail builds from Debian repos complain and want GLIBC >=2.22"
We would have built this ourselves but claws-mail has ton of dependency. claws-mail seems to be a fork of sylpheed, is there anything in claws-mail that sylpheed doesn't do?
"only the rotate key is not recognized yet"
You'll probably have to assign one yourself using sven. You need to figure out the keycode for the "rotate" key. Some devices don't send keys for rotate key, they send ACPI event instead.
"Only thing missing: NFS. Whoever needs it, the famous NFS utils pet does also work in FD 720 Wink Wink to the devs, it's only 152k."
Happy to put it in. There are a few NFS Utils. Which one are you referring (the source)? One from Launchpad or one from sourceforge?

@Sage: Thanks!

@chiron: kodi
Thanks, I will put this note to the front page.

@belham2:
"So, can I ask, all these machines that were tested used "frugal' installs? Or did you do "full" installs to those USBs?"
Fatdog only supports frugal install. http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/fa ... drive.html (please scroll to the bottom).
"Fatdog has decided to push frugal from their area of focus."
No, how can that be? The only supported installation method for Fatdog is frugal install.
"which I am super appreciative about"[/qoute]
You're much welcome.
"which is easy for us, given directions that is, but possibly not for others who see Fatdog on Distrowatch"
Good point. We'll have to make the information on this more prominent. We'll have this information highlighted or linked in every release.

As an aside, we did have a discussion about small vs huge initrd a couple of months back (pros/cons/trade-off/etc) and decided that for the time being, the huge initrd is still the best.
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